Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Essentially Juggernaut is just a magically over-enhanced human being. His magical protection doesn't by any stretch give him anything close to a win over Hulk but it protects him a Hell of alot and if he never had it he'd be luncheon meat. Coz with his strength level and armour alone, Hulk would tear him to shreds. The only reason Juggernaut is still walking after the fight with Hulk is coz of magical protection IMO.
It's like saying : without his strength, Hulk would be a big wuss. But the strength factor is what defines him as the Hulk. The fact Juggernaut can not be hurt is what makes him Juggernaut.
Good attempt at turning around my question, but doesn't change the fact that with all that wisdom he still picked Hulk out of every single being on Earth and the fact that he gave him weapons that added an UNDISCLOSED (not assuming huge amounts or just more) amount of extra energy to him doesn't change the fact that he decided that was the person for Juggernaut to fight.
So if you wanna get technical, the War Hulk Vs Juggernaut fight was one of the fairer ones because they both had strength from outside influences (Cytorakk Gem/Celestial Power). Juggernaut's whole existance is based on being powered up by outside means, Hulk just having the power he was given was therefore technically at a handicap. So it was pretty much even.
The key factor in my "Even Power" theory is that if Cain Marko became the Juggernaut and inherited all the same things as Hulk minus one, say the healing, and could be damaged, it wouldn't be even.
That's like saying Spider-Man is very lucky to be stronger, faster and tougher than Batman, because otherwise, Batman would kick his ass. These powers make him Spider-Man.
Btw, for those who care : will not reply anymore the first days, must go far away... 🙁
I wasn't turning around your question, only using your own logics against you . If even the almost all knowing Apocalypse realizes Hulks need to be upgraded if he wants to defeat Juggernaut, that says a lot about Hulk and Juggernaut.
Apoc didn't give Hulk those powers to defeat Juggernaut....he gave him those powers in order to use him as a horseman to take over the world (or whatever his scheme is)
Apoc used Juggernaut as a test for his new creation.
"It's like saying : without his strength, Hulk would be a big wuss. But the strength factor is what defines him as the Hulk. The fact Juggernaut can not be hurt is what makes him Juggernaut."
Juggernauts are very large freight carriers named that because they are quite imposing and such. If Juggernaut's gimmick is to be immune to physical pain, then is there any need for all this dimension punching and super-strength? No. He's an unbalanced character. Spider-Man is called that because he has the powers of a Spider, he isn't immune to physical harm for the sake of things.
"If even the almost all knowing Apocalypse realizes Hulks need to be upgraded if he wants to defeat Juggernaut, that says a lot about Hulk and Juggernaut."
You know as well as I do that Apocalypse bestowed upon him the name War Hulk. War meaning that he was obviously a planned horseman, so he didn't "upgrade" him, as you like to say, just to fight Juggernaut. He clearly had plans to further use him. Do you think if Hulk won that Apocalypse would say "Ok Buddy you run along now."
"I disagree. Hulk has other advantages, such as having the potential to become many times stronger, an incredible healing factor, an enormous jumping ability and also the facts he's a much better - and faster - fighter."
Yeah but as I pointed out multiple clear times in my post which you apparantly skipped, being that Juggernaut is immune, what is the jumping and speed going to do in a fight? Avoid attacks yeah but it's not gonna be detrimental to Juggernaut in the fight, so it's pretty much a null and void ability for the most part in this fight just because of Juggernaut's magic immunity. YET, Juggernaut has nowhere near the strength available to deal Hulk damage enough to defeat him, hence why this would more than likely be a stalemate under any write. If Juggernaut was more balanced, for example choose one or the other (strength or immunity), then it would be a much more entertaining fight. Juggernaut is clearly a character that has a widely overlooked and accepted flaw that no one has actually spotted till I raised the issue in my prior post.
"Again, the power of Juggernaut is what makes him Juggernaut."
Hulk is called Hulk because he is a Hulking beast. It implies strength, Juggernaut's are large, imposing vehicles that are notorious for being used on non-stop long-haul journeys. Hence why "unstoppable" is so often used, so if giving them powers to adhere to their name is your point, he should be given immunity and have that be it. Yet instead he got strength, armour, psychic immunity, no need to eat or sleep or drink. Bit much in my honest opinion. While none of those are battle winners, it makes it pointless to include him in VS threads for the simple reason that people who would otherwise tear his head off, are impeded due to his creator/s bad planning.
-AC
Originally posted by Wynndar
It is interesting to say War Hulk explored the idea of Hulk having and external source of energy like Jugs, in that case it was plain to see Jugs was no match. I think regular Hulk and regula Jugs is a fair fight seeing professor Hulk brought Jugs to his knees with only two punches.
Agreed, although he still lost that fight, but agreed.😉
And someone f*cked up by bringing Alpha back into the debate. Expect this thread to multiply by 5 or 10 pages by Saturday.😂
You do realize the term 'juggernaut' isn't a modern invention? It has much less to do with large imposing vehicles, it's a Hindi term that describes a force which destroys anything in its path, which Juggernaut does. That's why the term and the character are called unstoppable, because in its original connotation, it was unstoppable.
look lets forget war hulk boys for a second , ( he wasnt made stronger as hulk already has infinite strength), juggie is not gonna beat hulk on strength, 8th day or not, so how will he beat hulk, tell me, he has no magial powers, is not a better fighter, just invincable, well a good story would be hulk being so pissed he eventually passes this by and kills juggie, but im biased lol), so hulk will suck out all juggie has, get so fantastically strong that eventually hed just bury juggie under a mountain, juggie would be there an awful long time and die of boredom ( i dont know if hes immune to that). lets be fair any hulk defeats need to be more imaginative than another strong villain etc, we all lknow hulk is the strongest stan himself has stated this, so ( and i enjoyed th green goblin thread), lets have more imagintion than pitting strong guys against the hulk that have nothing else to offer, hulk is stronger end, if u havent got anything else in your armour then u cant beat him and better hope that he doesnt get so strong as to destroy your invincability as war hulk did by stopping the supposadly unstoppable, what i mean is whatever war hulks strength was savage hulk too would possess this. i know other guys have beaten hulk, namour, abomination, etc i just find this so unimaginative as your downgrading the strongest hero to strongest when it suits the writers.
As many people have said here before... All of this is based on fan-boyage and opinionism. Whoever the artist likes more, will win the comic. Otherwise, people can say they can beat one another forever, but no one will ever come out on top with sufficient facts about each of these Dreadnaughts, on who will actually win.
Ok... Hang On, I found something to pick at here...
Alpha-Centauri, You're previous post is extremely silly, you seem to be giving Hulk the upperhand in all of you're little "strength checks"
First of all, Let me correct you in a few of you're posts.
Alpha centauri-
"Juggernaut is protected by magic, a forcefield if need be and armour made by who knows what, Hulk strolls around it jeans with no shirt. The liklihood of Juggernaut walking out less/not hurt is inevitable."
Ok, if you're gonna bash a vigilante, lets do it right? ok? First of all, Juggernauts armor is made from the pure esscense of the Cyttorak dimension. Hope that fixes you're "Juggernaut walks around with armor made from who knows what"
Alpha-Centauri-
"Essentially Juggernaut is just a magically over-enhanced human being. His magical protection doesn't by any stretch give him anything close to a win over Hulk but it protects him a Hell of alot and if he never had it he'd be luncheon meat. Coz with his strength level and armour alone, Hulk would tear him to shreds. The only reason Juggernaut is still walking after the fight with Hulk is coz of magical protection IMO."
Same goes for hulkie, If Bruce never had been infected by Gamma rays hed be luncheon meat for Juggey, too. You cant argue about heroes WITHOUT there powers, that just shows how much of an arguement you have, nothing.
Lets elaborate. You think you know alot about Juggernaut huh? Well...
Juggernauts true potential is, alot of potential. Ok, so a group of vigilante's stole the power from Cain Marko and began using it at a level that cain marko never bothered to learn. they were controlling cain and keeping him subdued with his worst fears. while they were in control of juggernaut his power grew to emmense proportions and he grew to a height between 50-100 ft. he then began tearing down dimensional barriers with his mere fists. the group was trying to tear down dimensional barriers to get to their own home dimension to destroy it. cain marko can use the power to this degree, but he has never mentally summoned the power or learned how to do that. but it is well within his grasp to do so. also, current cain marko isn't at a level of classic juggernaut. he is referred to commonly as "the imposternaut" because he has a changed history, joined the x-men (something the REAL juggernaut would never do), he is weaning in power and he doesn't even have the same personality, But were talking about the normal, juggernaut here.
He has never been stopped except under the most direst of circumstances. People who argue like this either are recieving second hand information or they just havn't read the issue's they speak of. which is really the same thing.
Another thing I need to bring up is peoples idiotic brains, in unable to realize what "Invincible" means, because too many of you say he can be killed.
People will say that but they have no clue of what they are talking about. Juggernaut can't be killed by physical means, or by an ordinary attack. Even when stripped of most of his power, d'spayre then stripped him down to the bone. That still hadn't stopped Juggernaut. The only way to kill Juggernaut is separte him from his magics, then kill Cain Marko, and since they took out loosing the helmet makes him loose his magic, thats not EASY.
The last thing I must bring up is his protection. Not only can his "Armor made from who knows what" As you're intelligent logic puts it, Alpha-Centauri, Withstand more than Hulks super punch he did on Onslaught, But he has awesome toughness, almost that matched to hulks even without his armor, and he has a super field, his force field, which can resist all mental/psychic attacks and block out more than basic punches.
Ok Alpha Centauri, next time you bash, read up first.
yes juggir grew to 50 feet on 8 th day whatever, hulk is still stronger ( not fanboy but fact), and i guess writers could easily make an issue where hulk realises his full potential and has the power of a huge supernove to unleash whenever he felt like it. would put 8th day juggie in his place, together with everyone else i would imagine. juggie has nothing to hurt hulk with, ultimately hulk is stronger as is infinite in strength, hulk gets pissed off, buries juggie who has to dig himself free for years end of story. also comic books rarely give decisive victories as they dont want to upset any sides fans, hence victories will always end up controversial which is a shame
Juggernaut is most certainly capable of hurting Hulk; much weaker oppponents than Jugs have succeeded in hurting Hulk. Hulk is stronger yes, but he doesn't unleash supernova power whenever he feels like it, he's done that once with Onslaught. He's never as mad as he is capable of getting. 8th day Jugs would likely win as he'd send Hulk flying before Hulk is capable of putting him in the ground. But 8th day Juggernaut is a powered-up version of Juggernaut, so it's not a fair battle. War Hulk vs. 8th day Jugs is a fair battle, and has already been discussed on the forum.
hulk was not using power anywhere near that of a supernova againsy onslaught, he hit him with the force of an atomic explosion, so would still ( as is infinite in strength) have a lot left for the next opponenet whos more powerful than onslaught. hulk might get hurt but not beaten by juggie as ive said time and again, exactly what has juggie got in his arsenal to BEAT hulk, er not a lot, as hulk gets put down and hurt he comes back stronger tougher with increased healing.
The supernova is just what was used once to describe what would be unleashed if hulk used his power optimumly, although a supernova is not limitless in power so i dont know why that was used to compare hulk, but there u go its pretty powerful let me tell u, capable of muchos kick arseus
Gee, what does Juggernaut have to beat Hulk? True, not alot, but then again, he doesn't need a lot. He's beat him with strength before, who's to say he can't do it again. And if you wanna ask that, then lets ask, what Hulk have in his arsenal to BEAT Juggernaut, I mean REALLY beat him? Not much either does he? But, to be fair, he doesn't need much either. And people always throw out the unlimited strength issue. Now from my understanding, he has the potential for unlimited strength, not unlimited strength itself. He's capable of it, but he doesn't walk around with it all the time. Just like Juggernaut is capable of being far more powerful than he's usually shown (i.e. 8th Day), but like Hulk, doesn't walk around with that power 24/7, mainly cause he doesn't know how to reach that level yet. Anyways, both are capable of beating each other on any given day, it's a matter of who has luck on their side at the time, in my opinion.
well my point is if strength is the only weopan, and in this case it is as none have a particular power to destryou the other then hulk takes it, as is stronger, thats all my point is here. hulk will never reach his potential as is limitless so will always have a bit further to go to, besides 8th ay juggie would still get whooped by a hulk whos power had suped up to hat level ( i dont necassarily mean war although he was a member of the four horsemen of the apocalypse), but 1 description of a majorly pissed hulk was that he would be releasing the power of a supernova, and for those who dont know thats powerful, as far as how often he can reach this, well every time he is savage hulk he has the power to increase strength quickly and dramatically