the mother of the matrix: TRINITY?

I just finished watching "Reloaded" again. Awesome. I was watching it with this thread in mind.

The Peresphone myth as Queen of the Underworld is only part of the reason I think she is the mother of the Matrix. The other part? She's married to the Merovingian. In that myth, The Merovingian represents the lineage of the Christ and husband/protector of the divine feminine. The divine femine is the yin/yang completion of God. So, if the architect is the creator - Persphone would be his partner - other half.

So, I think Peresphone is who the Architect refers to as the Mother of the Matrix.

OK, I'll get even worse here: Peresphone says of her husband the Merovingian, "He used to be just like you" to Neo. AND, the oracle says to Neo "...the Merovingian is one of the oldest of us ."

So, I also think the Merovingian belong to that elite group of five former "Ones" with Neo as sixth As a matter of fact because of what the Oracle says of him, I think he was the first "One." So, if Peresphone married him shortly after He went through the first cycle as "the one," Persphone is a least as old as the Matrix.

Neo is just starting to be able to see the future and the Oracle is quite good at it, The Merovingian can see the future too. ("The Merovingian has been expecting you."😉 But, this former savior turns out evil - corrupted by power and the Oracle has become his nemesis by remaining good and true." "Tell the fortune teller that her time is almost up!" So, I think Peresphone looks bored because she married a former savior who evolved to be a pompous, self absorbed ass.

The group of the five former "Ones" had something in common: They all chose to save the world and took the savior route for humankind. Zion was destroyed and humankind was reseeded. Peresphone as goddess of life-death-rebirth wrote the script and they followed it because of a profound brotherly love for mankind.

Neo however is different. His profound love is just as strong - but it is specific - a love for Trinity. He's the first of the six to take that possible, but very remote choice. Peresphone knows he's going to choose the other door, so, she wants to sample the passion from the One that refuses the choice she designed as the solution for this problem of choices.

So, if she can know what Neo is going to do - So might the architect. Therefore, the machines have designed into the Matrix contingencies.

I can wait to see Revolutions! Counselor Humman says "We need the machines and they need us." Maybe Revolutions won't be the end of the Matrix - nor the end of Zion. Maybe it'll be the birth (or discovery) of a new Martix.

I can't wait to find out...

okok first off let me say one thing.. i posted a crap load about persephone being the mother.. but im gonna have to tear your post apart a tad..

OK, I'll get even worse here: Peresphone says of her husband the Merovingian, "He used to be just like you" to Neo

by this i believe she simply means love... because she could tell neos love for trinity, i think she mean he used to love her, persephone says i once knew what it felt like...

So, I also think the Merovingian belong to that elite group of five former "Ones" with Neo as sixth As a matter of fact because of what the Oracle says of him, I think he was the first "One." So, if Peresphone married him shortly after He went through the first cycle as "the one," Persphone is a least as old as the Matrix.

I have to disagree with this entire part.. the mero is not a former one, he says to neo your predasisers had much more respect, and also ok you have some skill.. he was suprised by neo a bit if he was a "one" this wouldnt of happened, hes also a program.. neo is not a program the mero would need to be jacked in to be a one.. unless one of the theorys about revo is right that the mind can live wihtout the body and stay within the matrix.. either way im 99% sure he is not a former one.. it defies logic

The group of the five former "Ones" had something in common: They all chose to save the world and took the savior route for humankind. Zion was destroyed and humankind was reseeded. Peresphone as goddess of life-death-rebirth wrote the script and they followed it because of a profound brotherly love for mankind.

they all choose to follow the system of control, they didnt save shit.. they think they did because they were just anomalys of the system who gave into control still.. neo is the true "One" love.. theres that word again plays a part in this.. neo will be the true savior of humanity in revo the mero refers to him as a saviour.. he is the first true saviour. also persephone is the goddess of death.. never have i seen life or rebirth added to that id be curious to see where u got that.. also how u can justify her writing the script...

the mother/persephone didnt design a solution for the problem of choices. she found a way to make 99% of subjects accept it by giving them choice

I can wait to see Revolutions! Counselor Humman says "We need the machines and they need us." Maybe Revolutions won't be the end of the Matrix - nor the end of Zion. Maybe it'll be the birth (or discovery) of a new Martix.

that is true 🙂 the matrix wont be ended.. ie the online game that takes place after revo and inside the matrix. revo will be an evolution of sorts.. neo accesnding to a higher level/meaning.. the child at mobile ave being special.. i still think the kid is pretty special.. but above all humans and machines will work together and coinside inside and outside the matrix.

again i agree a lot about persephone.. just saw a lot of holes in your arguments.. and theres not much left to debate so im trying to pose as many questions as possible.. feel free to respond back and tell me why im wrong u were right.. more details the better

Persphone is the mother of the matrix. I believe. She kisses Neo to feel the love he has for Trinity. I would say that that is all the human psyche investigation power you need.

also artichect told NEO that the mother of matrix is a pure program (means which has no body

in the real world)
trinity is not a pure program while persephone is 🙂

Originally posted by forumcrew
...the mero is not a former one, he says to neo your predasisers had much more respect, and also ok you have some skill..

Why would the W Bros call him the "Merovingian" if he wasn't from the line of saviors? That whole Merovingian thing is quite specific from the Knights of Templar stuff: A line of French kings tied to the lineage of Christ and protectors of the divine feminine. Also tied to his thing with the cake and the woman in pink - sex in the ancient rituals was a way to glimpse God. Like power, sexual promiscuity was another thing that perverted the Merovingian from the Path. If you get a chance, read The DaVinci Code. It's outstanding. Also, if the Merovingian was the first anomoly, he would have been around to meet the other five...

Neo is the true "One" ... he is the first true saviour.

Agreed: Neo has skills, strength and will that the other anomalies didn't have and does things the others did not - that's was my point too. The thing I was saying about love? His love and fidelity toward Trinity is so strong it's why he chooses to create his own rules and doesn't make the choice that the other five obviously made. The door Neo chose was rigged to blow up - that didn't stop him either. Yes, even among the five I'd think he was special.

...persephone is the goddess of death.. never have i seen life or rebirth added to that id be curious to see where u got that.. also how u can justify her writing the script...the mother/persephone didnt design a solution for the problem of choices. she found a way to make 99% of subjects accept it by giving them choice

Where did I get Peresphone's life-death-rebirth thing? Web encyclopedias like most of us! In a second Peresphone myth, she brings this guy's wife back to life. Here's a quote from Wikipedia:

She is a life-death-rebirth deity. Persephone, as Queen of Hades, only showed mercy once, because the music of Orpheus was so hauntingly sad. She allowed Orpheus to bring his wife, Eurydice, back to the land of the living as long as she walked behind him and he never tried to look at her face until they got to the surface.

the mother/persephone didnt design a solution for the problem of choices. she found a way to make 99% of subjects accept it by giving them choice

I think the humans had choice all along. That's one of the reasons why the first two matrices failed. Peresphone just caught the fact that choice was integral to the human psyche and together with the Architect designed the contingencies for choice into this upgraded matrix. Did you notice how the Merovingian pissed Peresphone off not just because of his infidelity, but because he denied choice and scoffed it as an illusion and mouthed off with his "cause and effect" tirade - which seemed at times directed toward Peresphone?

The Merovingian/Peresphone thing is just too well woven together. The W Bros did a magnificent job. I think they were trying to tell us something...

Hey. I have a favor to ask. I don't speak french so I can't translate The Merovigian's long spiel in french - a curse I think. The one Just before he says, "Its like wiping your ass with silk." It could very well have some meaning and I am very curious to know what he said. Can anyone provide us with a translation?

Lastly, what's with that man they're ushering out of the restaurant as Neo's coming in? The guys turns and stares at Neo and there is an obvious "Cuckoo-Cuckoo" drawing attention to the shot. At first I thought it might be Bain, but it wasn't. I don't recognize the guy, but I think the W Bros use of obvious and loud sound effects was pointing out 1) something of future importance or 2) a cameo from one of their personal friends.

Any ideas?

Cheers. 🙂

i do agree about persephone being the mother.. i just dont think mero is a former one.. i think all that could just represent his want of power.. and he is like a king in the matrix..

the guy being taken out is rama kandra him and his wife gave the mero the termination codes for the oracles shell to protect their child.. you see them all in the revos trailers and this is explained in the game.. search the forum for a deeper explination theres tons on this i dont really wanna type it all out again..

Persephone says in Reloaded that the Merovingian used to be like Neo, though she probably means that he used to love, but she might have meant that he used to be a One.

I don't think he used to be a One. But that's an interesting thought. I think it was that he used to love.

its love, love i tell you!

Archpublican> You make a big mistake. You use the Merovingian line of kings (mythologicaly connected to the Christian Jesus) to show Persephone as a divine mother. But to follow your line of reasoning, the MERO should be the Architect.
It’s not Mero who explains Persephone. It’s the other way around. Persephone explains the Merovingian as a “lord” of the Underworld (subsystems, subprograms), which enables him to act as protector of would-be deleted (dead) programs.

Out of the myths: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingians Explains briefly what the real Merovingian line of kings were about.

Also: Merovingian to refers to an order of knights of the holy grail from the 18th century.

Osiris> The Architect never tells Neo, that the mother is a PURE program.

Archpublican> You make a big mistake.

Also: Merovingian to refers to an order of knights of the holy grail from the 18th century.

I've seen the Wikipedia article before. Searched it out right after I saw Reloaded the first time. Quite sparse and without much detail or flavor but it lead me to more cool stuff: The books "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", "Mary the Magdalen" and "The DaVinci Code" do the story much more justice. Nevertheless, is there a point in there you wanted to draw upon to refute my musings about Peresphone as the MOTM?

But to follow your line of reasoning, the MERO should be the Architect.

My observation would only point to the Merovingian as the Architect if one assumed that the "Christian Jesus" was the Creator.

In the tradition of the Merovingians, Christ was only a man - deified as God only beginning with Constantine in the 3rd century. Constantine also tried to destroy any documents showing evidence that Jesus of Nazareth was or behaved in a mortal way. He thus pushed the church to create a canonical Bible and outlawed many other works, historical writings, Gospels and Apocrypha. The penalty for having or distributing these forbidden documents was death.

Despite Constantine's efforts, many of these documents were saved and have been rediscovered - Documents uncovered in Nag Hammadi in 1945 and only recently translated in volume are now in the Coptic Museum in Egypt. These are probably the most complete and most famous yet released publicly. Elaine Pagels wrote some great books about those gnostic gospels. Like the monks that are believe to have copied and buried the Nag Hammadi documents to preserve them from the Church's attempted eradication, The Knights Templar are too said to have found, preserved and now safeguard many such documents.

There's a double meaning to the Knights Templar's "Holy Grail:" San Greal means holy grail. But, change a letter and Sang Real means holy blood. Sang Real refers to their belief that Jesus was quite human, married Mary Magdalen and bore a family. Their descendants - the Merovigians included - were referred to as the Holy Blood. Some people think that The Knights Templar Holy Grail they protected was not a chalice, but a set of documents that proves Christ's humanity, his marriage to Mary Magdalen and provide historical detail of the lineage of their offspring. In addition to the esoteric histories and many fictional books based on them, these religious beliefs are alluded to in dozens of famous paintings, sculptures, concertos and literature dating back over 500 years.

So, if in these Merovigian related stories Christ is not even God, he is in no way tied to the Creator. No confusion of the Mero being the Architect.

Even in the Christian traditions, The Father and the Son are united but distinctly different persona in a tripartite God. No confusion here either.

You tossed a barb and didn't follow it up with any reasoning. Such ad hominem arguments are irrelevant to the sharing and tearing of ideas. Please, in the future feel free to tear into ideas. But, if not, please refrain from insulting the people who post them.

archpublican, making other people who contradict your point appear wrong will in fact make your point look right in the end, if the omega has a valid point and has found an error in what you might have said before, and may have spotted something you have overlooked, then he has the undeniable right to exclaim it to a certain degree. when somebody has tried to make a valid point with you, it is better to listen to their point then to shoot them down for trying, because once you have listen to what they have to say, you might have learned something. 🙂 if what you have a point in the end that will also contradict their point, then you have the moral right to share it with him, remeber we are in a forum, and itis the time and the place for such arguments

did you just call...the omega...a MAN?!?! HAHAHA...wait until the GODerator sees THIS!!! ....Omega's a WOMAN...

my mistake 😮 (fast tyrper) 😉

Originally posted by JediHDM
then what ELSE are we supposed to call her?!?!?! Her name is the Oracle...i've never heard her or anyone else call her anything OTHER than the oracle...

Originally posted by mindbugaling
maybe MOMMIE?

yeah he did say, that but he was just bein silly. i could call her 'the old black women who says a lota crap and likes to eat candy and cookies' (which who doesnt)

Originally posted by mindbugaling
yeah he did say, that but he was just bein silly. i could call her 'the old black women who says a lota crap and likes to eat candy and cookies' (which who doesnt)

😆
Well, JediHDM, even putting that quote in my signature didn't help, I guess. Mindbugaling! I'm female... 😉

Archpublican> But you are making a mistake, and me writing that, is a statement. Nothing else. So don’t get over-exited, hm? Because if you’ll notice, I go on to prove my statement.
No, you might want to double-check, since Merovingian DOES refer to a grail-order. “A” being the key here.
As you undoubtedly know, there were countless more or less serious “orders” from the Medieval times and up until this day.
The Wikepedia article is still true, though. And give info on the point I was making. Namely that Merovingian in the real world, refers to a line of FRENCH kings (only in myth is there a connection to the Christian Jesus and Maria Magdalena).
The point being – since you seems to’ve missed it – that Mero need not be “divine” in any way. In connection with it being Persephone who “explains” Mero, more than the other way around (as explained in my previous post).

“Do you have any reasons for these conclusions you draw that I'm wrong?”
yes, please refer to previous post. But I’ll restate: You use the myth of Merovingian, to claim Persephone is ”divine”, that is ”Mother” of the matrix. But by utilising the mythos of divinity in the Merovingian, you forget to tell me, WHAT Mero then is. The pair Mero/persephone are connected, so if SHE is the mother, then by your reasoning, Mero must be the father.

A barb? If you cannot stand being told you’ve made a mistake, and then read the explanation that follows, then I cannot help you, and just note that you take the debating far too personal.