Ghosts of AOTC

My point with my post about Vader beliving Obi wan to be Lukes teacher was: Vader belived Obi Wan was the only one who trained Luke and Vader couldnt be sure how much training Luke had gotten at the point of where Obi fell at DS. Vader got an indication at Bespin, but Luke escaped even after the info about Vader beeing Lukes father. Which showed strong will on Lukes behalf.
Well they knew Obi Wan was gone and that Luke had grown very strong with the force to the next encounter, kind of strange Lukes education never came up in the throne room. It does in the Novel ROTJ but that does not count.

Originally posted by yerssot
They don't know about Yoda, otherwhise there doing missions to kill him. OB1 is unknown to them, otherwhise they would do the same thing.

THe emperor and vader however did feel a disturbance in the force and so they must have realised that someone was training Luke, is there not something on sw.com about yoda living by a tree that emits dark force stuff and so the 2 neutralise each other out so that neither can be felt. Vader didn't know that ob1 was dead but he didn't know that he was alive either, is there not some quote about ob1 "he must be dead by know". Perhaps something happens at the end of ep3 to make vader think ob1 is dead.

Well, Vader Does think that Obi is Lukes only trainer, but that DOES NOT mean he was trained by a ghost. Thus the line "the force is strong in this one" in the trench. He also found out later (EU) that Luke was the pilot. Wether EU or not, it should be obvious that only someone as powerfull as Vader himself (or his offspring) could pull off something like this. Thus prompting the search for the 'son of Skywalker'

He knows later that Luke "trained himself" by constructing his own saber. So he still dosent know about Yoda's training. And in his and the emperors minds see nothing but a weak mind to mold to their own agendas and wills (even though it was agenst each other)

Yersoot is partly right, when Vader sees Luke in ESB he has no reason to think anyone but Obi trained him, because Obi is the last Jedi Vader knows, and that secrecy of Obi and Yoda will be revieled in EP3 along with the need to hid the twins.

It will all be clear in 2005 😉

I dunno, all that seems pretty clear to me.

And about the dark stuff in the tree, well... I dunno. This has been discussed to death. I personally see no need to explain the tree. It's mysterious, let's keep it that way.

I can agree with that.. I don't think we're supposed to understand it.

Better leave some things unexplained. What else are we going to discuss after GL finishes Ep3?

Probably Jar Jar. 😮‍💨

I think there must be a clause that he may not be discussed at all on these forums. 😄

It will happen though. We'll all start talking about the minor things like Ric Ollies haircut or the interior of Amidala's ship. 😄

I always thought the tree on Dagabah was one of the finest and most subtle metaphors in the movies: "Dark Roots"... 😄

Because Vader isn't with the Jedi for let's say 4 episodes, he doesn't know a thing about them. Yoda is than nearly 900 years, so Vader could think that if he wasn't dead that would be done in a few years. The tree is known, look at sw.com there database. I think that is the only known reason why they didn't found him.

RIGHT then...

First of all, the line 'Tjhe Force is Strong with this one' is utterly irrelevant and has no bearing on thie situation; Vader is just commenting on his tricky target.

Next, there is no credible way whatsoever of interpreting lines in the films other than to think that Vader assumed very quickly that Obi-Wan trained Luke, because as we know Vader started to look for Luke before ESB. The lines leave little room for doubt there; interpreting it another way is just over complicating. Vader belivees Obi-Wan is dead and cannot come back.

Early drafts of the ROTJ script where Obi-Wan appears to Vader prove that GL never had it in mind that Vader knew of the Ghost Trick. It is a complete surprise to him.

And as for the line "Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...'...

GL has said that line is VERY important and will be explained in the coming films. Just a line to unsettle Vader? I think not. A vital plot point that is the lynchpin of this entire theory. Vader knows about neither Ghost Trick nor Disappearing tirck. Obi-Wan is referring to both, THEREFORE they are one and the same thing THEREFORE Anakin MUST have disappeared in his suit or he could not be a ghost, as Lucasfilm and just about every sensible person agree.

As for the Living/Unifying FOrce thing, that was a mad fan theory until, unexpectedly, it turned up in some of the bios on SW.com. we'll wait and see as to how canonical that turns out to br.

Well, you know I disagree with your opinion on "The Force is strong with this one" line, but I'll let someone else discuss that.

I follow your reasoning on the disappearing/ghost thing only partly. If OB1 learned about it, how would Vader have learned to do it. He's obviously never seen a Jedi ghost according to your writings just now, he's only seen ONE Jedi disappear. So, how would he be able to repeat that trick?????? I think it's either burn or disappear (an achievement which must be explained) to become a ghost. That's what we have: TWO Jedi disappear and become ghosts, TWO Jedi get burned (one we see as a ghost and the other not....yet?). So we need more input on this.

As I have said before, how Anakin can disappear is an obvious mystery and may have something to do with his special heritage. This one problem should not distract us from where all the signs point.

"The Force is strong with this one"
Vader sences the force of Luke, that`s why he makes that comment. Plain and simple.

There is not the SLIGHTEST bit of evidence that you can 'sense' Force.

There is LOADS of evidence that you make comments about the Force when someone from the real world would say 'good luck' Hence Dodonna saying 'May the Force be with you' to the depearting pilots. He does not mean he wants them to all be Force aware. He is just saying good luck!

Likewise, when Vader finds this pilot causing him trouble, he comments on the surprising skill/luck of the target. Hence 'The Force is strong with this one' meaning 'This one is a tricky bugger'.

As opposed th 'F*** me, it's a Force adept!" as he would have said if he seriously thought he had found someone with Force power.

I am totally at a loss to see how people can seriously think Vader thinks he has detected power in the pilot of the fighter. He is simply making a comment on the difficulty of the target.

Um, your forgetting about the line " I feel a presence in the force. One I have not felt since..."

So yes Vader can feel the force in others.

Period

Ush, explain this then. How can the Emperor feel a disturbance in the force. Qui Gon feel s Anakin strength with the force, and oh yes what Jameous mentioned.
Sometimes Ush you are kind of arrogant in your replies, everyone else is so wrong and what you say is so right. Be at least a little bit humble.

And there's the way Luke detected the dark force around the tree and the way Luke knew Vader was on the star destroyer orbitting Endor and the way his line "I'm endangering the mission, I shouldn't have come" betrays his fear that his own power will be detected and give away the shuttle team...

I can see what Ush is saying, and mention of the force in every day language - in place of 'luck' or 'skill' as Ush said - was a good way of investing the force with influence and importance in the times after the Jedi, it gave it historic significance, made it 'culturally' relevant, etc., but I always assumed the force was detectable personally.

But that line from ObiWan, "If you strike me down..." is a far more interesting discussion point, and one that has intrigued me since 1977.

My prediction is that at some point Anakin will use the same line to ward ObiWan off trying to interfer with his journey to the dark side - kind of like saying, "The only thing stopping me killing ALL of the jedi is the fact some of them are friends of mine, but if you push me and try to stop me I won't let even that get in my way anymore"...

ObiWan probably throws that line in with one of two intentions: to taunt Vader by reminding him of his ambitions and drawing attantion to the fact that he is just a puppet of the Emperor OR to try and remind Anakin that they were once very close friends in the hope of luring him back to the side of good.

But we'll see, I guess...

I don't think Vader is the kind of person to throw Force phrases around solely on a cultural basis. He doesn't like jokes about the Force ("The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant to the power of the Force" and "I find your lack of faith disturbing"😉 He doesn't strike me as a person who'd use casual lines with the Force. "Thou shalt not use the name of the Force in vain". 😂