Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Those punches would render Batman a brutal and dead bloody mess regardless. Hercules not fighting back doesn't lower his durability any.
It does though.. If Mike Tyson in his prime just stood there and gave a scrub boxer three free shots, I bet a lot of people could do some damage. Maybe even serious damage..
Batman obviously won't be able to take even one punch from Hulk, but Carver's also taking two extreme showings to imply Wolverines durability is > Hercs.
Originally posted by cdtm
It does though.. If Mike Tyson in his prime just stood there and gave someone three free shots, I bet a lot of people could do some damage. Maybe even serious damage..Batman obviously won't be able to take even one punch from Hulk, but Carver's also taking two extreme showings to imply Wolverines durability is > Hercs.
In reality it works like that somewhat, but if someone who's physically fit and has strong bones and muscles lets someone hit him, he doesn't make his body any less durable. He's just not bracing for them. And Hercules' durability isn't effected by anything like willpower or confidence; him letting you shoot him or attempt to bludgeon him without bracing or defending himself doesn't make his durability take a nosedive. Obviously, Hulk needed to be pretty strong in order to bloody him.
Carver's crazy anyway, so ignore him for the most part.
Fact of the matter is that Wolverine has consistently endured more avenues of damage than Batman without PIS. If you replace Batman with Wolverine in that recent New Avengers vs. Ragnarok fight, Batman would be dead like five times over.
Originally posted by cdtm
It does though.. If Mike Tyson in his prime just stood there and gave a scrub boxer three free shots, I bet a lot of people could do some damage. Maybe even serious damage..Batman obviously won't be able to take even one punch from Hulk, but Carver's also taking two extreme showings to imply Wolverines durability is > Hercs.
I don't think Wolverine can withstand everything that Herc can take but Wolverine withstood more punches than anyone that has faced WWH. It took a couple of punches to drop Zom Strange, Hulk hit Ghost Rider once and dropped him (minus the thunder clap), hit Skrull Bolt once...etc, etc...it was a good showing for Wolverine and shows that his durability shouldn't be underestimated. Even WWH comments on his healing factor during their brawl. But I agree with your stance, Herc durability>>Wolverine.
Originally posted by Letters
Oh really? Punisher grenade? Elektra knife? Marrow bone knives? Daredevil neck chops? All that stuff is beyong Batman I'm sure.
Punisher has never koed Wolverine with a grenade, he incinerated Wolverine's torso with a rocket launcher... and it didn't even ko him, he was still conscious and talking. Elektra ambushed a half dead Wolverine (who was also missing part of his soul) while he was engaged in a fight, and stabbed him with a sai, not a knife. Marrow stabbed Wolverine in the neck while he was helping her up... and it didn't do anything more than drive him into a berserker rage. Daredevil's neck chop is PIS that took place in an Ennis comic.
Originally posted by Letters
Wolverine has also lost fights plenty of times when he decides to tank damage instead of dodging or blocking.
No he hasn't lost plenty, he's lost a few, and largely due to PIS.
Originally posted by Letters
What fights do you mention that are Top 10 MA's? Shang Chi, IF (which wasn't a real fight) and Cap. Any one else I'm missing?
Daredevil, who he had incapacitated in full nelson in two panels even after Matt ambushed ambushed him.
The Iron Fist v Wolverine example, was akin to an exhibition fight. It's obviously not as concrete as a real fight would be, if we had one in the last three decades - but it's about as close as you can get otherwise. Especially considering the ego and cockiness of both characters. It's a bit different than infamous training match loses like Shiva v Robin, or Wolverine v Black Widow. It's was test of skill that both fighters willing agreed to show off their prowess a little, I'm willing to take it at face value especially because of the personalities of two characters like I said.
Anyway, that is legit wins over 4 of Marvel's earth based top 10 Martial Artists. And that can go as high as 6 or 7 depending on the characters that fill out that top ten (which is not an unanimous agreement on KMC). A lot more impressive than Batman's zero. It's to be expect of course, Marvel's streets throw down with each other more than often than DC's. Daredevil and Punisher alone have fought each other more than all the times Batman has fought a top 10 martial artist combined.
Originally posted by Letters
Meanwhile Batman has extended fights with KK (pre crisis and post crisis versions) and stalemated him. *one fight showed Bruce on the losing end*
Batman fought Threeboot Karate Kid and a brain washed Karate Kid (Val might have been dying too, I can't remember when that story thread first emerged) who wore the same costume as Pre Zero Hour Karate Kid. Neither of them are anywhere near as skilled as the real Pre Zero Hour Karate Kid.
Originally posted by Letters
Batman also has wins on Shiva, Cassandra Cain, Prometheus, Zeiss, Sensei, Hawkman, Katana, David Cain, Deathstroke, KG Beast, NKV Demon and more. All are top level MA's in DC.
Only three of those characters (Shiva, Cass, Sensei) are top 10 level MAs and none of his wins over them are legit. Shiva has lost to Batman via interfernce from Robin, or when she was mind controlled. He's never been able to beat or even demonstrate any sort of advantage over in an actual fight. Batman appeared to get the better of Cass in a training match but the last panel suggest otherwise with Batman coughing blood and Cass with a knowing smirk. Sensei beat the crap out of Batman, then the fact that he is an old man with no stamina that literally can't expend himself for more than a minute caught up with him. Batman rarely beats Prometheus without some tech aid. Zeiss? Who cares. David Cain? Who cares. KG Beast? Who cares. NKV Demon? Who cares? Katana? Who cares? Hawkman? Batman's never beaten Hawkman. He sucker punched him once, then got saved by Hal stepping in and stopping Hawkman from feeding Batman his own ass. Deathstroke is a sloppy fighter who gets by on superhuman attributes and has been beaten by Nightwing several times.
Originally posted by carver9
I don't think Wolverine can withstand everything that Herc can take but Wolverine withstood more punches than anyone that has faced WWH. It took a couple of punches to drop Zom Strange, Hulk hit Ghost Rider once and dropped him (minus the thunder clap), hit Skrull Bolt once...etc, etc...it was a good showing for Wolverine and shows that his durability shouldn't be underestimated. Even WWH comments on his healing factor during their brawl. But I agree with your stance, Herc durability>>Wolverine.
Achelous also one shoted koed Herc, where as Wolverine ran head first into Achelous' bull charge and headbutted him... and wasn't even phased.
Titannus one or two shoted Hulk, and Wolverine took two or three before going down as well.
Originally posted by carver9
I can post his fight with WWH, or Savage Hulk who threw a building size tree on him or his.fight with Thor, Wendigo, Sasquash, Colossus, Sentry, Gladiator...and the list goes on.
This shows Wolverine trying to fight Thor and getting his ass kicked. What is that supposed to prove?
Originally posted by Letters
This shows Wolverine trying to fight Thor and getting his ass kicked. What is that supposed to prove?
You are clearly missing the point.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7859/wolverine14528mf7.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6063/wolverine14529ei8.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3946/wolverine14531vq5.jpg
Originally posted by Letters
So has Batman. Superman Wonder Woman, Darkseid, Shaggyman. So what? Do you want to count those or keep it to the street level like id prefer?
)
Even Batman knows those examples are bullshit. After mind controlled Superman beat his as, Batman told Clark that he has holding back. Superman is like "How? I was mind controlled?" and Batman is like "Who the hell knows, but I'm alive... So you must have held back subconsciously!"
Poorly thought through and nonsensical plot armor and PIS is what saves Batman's ass, Wolverine gets by on his skill set and powers.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So wolverine can take some class 100 punches and then he gets beaten by street level chars, pressure points and deers. Batman doesn't have to hit him with cl 100 punches as Wolverine was hurt by less 😉.
Wolverine has never been beaten by a pressure point or a deer, and the handful of times a street has beaten him are PIS.
You need class 100 strength to put wolverine away, and even then you need to work at it.
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So wolverine can take some class 100 punches and then he gets beaten by street level chars, pressure points and deers. Batman doesn't have to hit him with cl 100 punches as Wolverine was hurt by less 😉.
Let's not go there because "every" character has this problem. Wolverine showing against high end bricks are pretty much consistent. Let's ask Namor.
1. http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4470/newinamorpg9.jpg
2. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/743/newinamor2pf7.jpg
3. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/928/newinamor3xp6.jpg
4. http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5117/newinamor4qf2.jpg
5. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7402/newinamor5dn2.jpg
6. http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/328/newinamor6gt7.jpg
7. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4553/newinamor7vs0.jpg
8. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3707/newinamor8zk5.jpg
9. http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/899/newinamor9jpghz8.jpg
10. http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/565/newinamor10xm1.jpg
I can keep going all night with these guys/haters. Let's stop lowballing.
Originally posted by srankmissingninFixed.
Poorly thought through and nonsensical plot armor and PIS is what saves Batman's ass, Wolverine gets by on the exact same thing, but his fanboys say it's 'just part of his abilities' due to a slew of proof against other top competition that Batman also has in his background.
