Originally posted by Letters
So they are even right? Now look at DD's record with Bullseye. See the difference?
Elektra is up 2-0 post resurrection, in one on one solo exchanges. 2-1 in favor of Elektra if you count pre resurrection... but I don't know why you would, they are different beats. That is like using Daredevil beating up Bullseye before he had his brain tumor removed as valid feat that puts him over current Lester.
Originally posted by Letters
So he was trying to fight her while not paying attention to the escape plan. And losing badly
What? Wolverine was passing time while waiting for his escape. He broke her sais, she stabbed him, he was pulling the sais free, and then the water came and ended the combat. Elektra might have had the advantage over a weakened, mind controlled Wolverine at that moment... but he wasn't "losing badly," there was barely even any fighting to speak of. Reading comprehension, put some points into it the next time you level up.
Originally posted by Letters
What affected Wolverines HF to not be working?
Magic Hand resurrection magic? AKA a nonsensical plot device.
Originally posted by Letters
Batman couldn't do the same iyo?
No. Daredevil can't do it either... which is why it's PIS. Read the rules please.
Originally posted by Letters
Oh. So its only a plot device if street levelers hurt Wolverine but not class 100's. Is that right?
Street levels can hurt Wolverine and that's fine, what they can't do is ko, incapacitate or do any sort of meaningful or lasting damage to him that result in them winning a fight, which is why outside of a few isolated examples (known as PIS), they don't.
Originally posted by Letters
More proof his HF can be weakened.
Unless the specifications of this thread are Batman is fighting a mind controlled half dead Wolverine who's healing factor was barely functioning, was missing part of his soul and was on enough tranquilizers to sedate the Hulk, I fail to see the relevance...
Originally posted by Letters
Batman def has enough tranqs to take out Wolvie. And bombs and gas grenades and security foam and sonic devices and flash bangs. Why would you think he wouldn't?
😆
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The issue isn't "every fight Wolverine had with a street leveler is PIS". At best, there might be one, maybe two people who honestly think that.
I know. But don't you think a good way to compare characters is to see how they fought against similar type opponents?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The issue is that, given feats and histories as a whole - and not focusing on Wolverine's high end feats or trying to lowball him in favor of Batman - the fact of the matter is that Wolverine can simply take more punishment from Batman than vice versa.
Batman has a high end damage soak on par with people with HF's. Batman has been stabbed thru the gut and kept fighting. Wolverine has been stabbed thru the gut multiple times and lost fights.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Wolverine's physically at least on Batman's level when it comes to speed
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
and strength,
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
without factoring in his healing factor and adamantium laced skeleton. Skill wise, Logan has displayed that he is exceptionally skilled, and even if he does fight like a brute with claws -
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
because in order to be a skilled fighter in comics, apparently you need to do a bunch of flashy ninja-like moves...even though Captain America would disagree with you there - he's extremely effective.
Right. Cap is extremely skilled. And he doesn't absorb sword strikes thru the neck and torso to win agains A list MA's. And neither does Batman.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Even if Batman gets the benefit of the doubt that he's more technically sound in the application of martial arts than Wolverine (extremely arguable given their histories), Wolverine is still as fast (and you could argue faster) than Batman,
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
and can simply fight for longer periods than Batman can, to say nothing of the stark difference in how much damage they can take from one another.
Batman has never dropped during a single fight due to stamina. Batman has some of the best stamina feats in comics.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's really simple, painfully so, that in a straight up encounter, Batman is at a disadvantage to Wolverine. And that's without Logan Goggles being worn.
Not for skills and speed. You haven't proven nothing that Wolvie is better.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I give Batman all the credit he's due, but even given his standard gear, he's hard pressed to take down Wolverine long enough to score a win.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I hope someone with common sense can read this and accept it as pretty accurate, or at least not biased if they don't agree with it; I could give a shit between who wins between the two of them and their rabid fanbases, but Logan's edges are exceptionally difficult for Bruce to overcome.
Again. Bruce is faster and more skilled and better than most the people that have beaten Wolverine.
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
WTF.Anyway. Even if they were equal in everything, the HF still put Wolverine over Batman. Batman will eventually tire, even if it's takes hours. The HF prevent this.
This is a fight Batman can't win. Period.
But they aren't equall. Batman is faster and more skilled and better armed. He's also beaten enemies with HF's as well.
It didn't take DD hrs to defeat Wolverine both times he won.
Originally posted by Letters
But they aren't equall. Batman is faster and more skilled and better armed. He's also beaten enemies with HF's as well.It didn't take DD hrs to defeat Wolverine both times he won.
Because your ignorant little **** and I cant stand you completely ignoring context anymore. Will get judges and I will put you in your place.
Another thing that Wolverine has that Batman does not is that he has two or three gears, the third is when he is in complete berserker madness, like in those times where Sabretooth and he are slicing each other open. At this point, pain barely registers with him, and his speed increases. Batman is really outclassed here, and needs to stay in his own weight class. Oh boy I have to do it lol... I would go as far as say that if you put every single Batman villain, barring Clayface, in the room, and give Wolverine an idea of who is the biggest threat to him (likely Ivy) and he went berserk, I could see him kill every one of them.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Elektra is up 2-0 post resurrection, in one on one solo exchanges. 2-1 in favor of Elektra if you count pre resurrection... but I don't know why you would, they are different beats. That is like using Daredevil beating up Bullseye before he had his brain tumor removed as valid feat that puts him over current Lester.
Yea I count all their fights mostley. Most of them have some kind of relevance one way or another.
Wasn't one of the BE Elektra fights a stalemate?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What? Wolverine was passing time while waiting for his escape. He broke her sais, she stabbed him, he was pulling the sais free, and then the water came and ended the combat. Elektra might have had the advantage over a weakened, mind controlled Wolverine at that moment... but he wasn't "losing badly," there was barely even any fighting to speak of. Reading comprehension, put some points into it the next time you level up.
Again how was Wolvie weakened? He was just hooked up to life support machines and had plenty of time for the HF to heal him completeley.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Magic Hand resurrection magic? AKA a nonsensical plot device.
Is that stated in the comic? Scans?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No. Daredevil can't do it either... which is why it's PIS. Read the rules please.
But DD DID do that. Maybe you should add those comprehension points for yourself. I know you still have a lot of penis points to use to upgrade to "Below Average", but maybe you should sacrifice for that.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Street levels can hurt Wolverine and that's fine, what they can't do is ko, incapacitate or do any sort of meaningful or lasting damage to him that result in them winning a fight, which is why outside of a few isolated examples (known as PIS), they don't.
lol. You really believe this don't you? DD, Cap, Punisher, Elektra, Daken, X23, Mr X, Shang Chi, "Nope, that's ALL PIS".
You eat sleep and shit ways to spin PIS don't you? lol
Originally posted by srankmissingninDidn't he have enough time to heal completely and have life support to help?
Unless the specifications of this thread are Batman is fighting a mind controlled half dead Wolverine who's healing factor was barely functioning,
Originally posted by srankmissingninwhich has nothing to do with him physically
was missing part of his soul
Originally posted by srankmissingninSo tranqs CAN affect Wolverine. Good thing Batman carries those.
and was on enough tranquilizers to sedate the Hulk, I fail to see the relevance...
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine's combat speed was measured as it taking him .038 (Danger had him measured at .03 seconds with the tag "sub max velocity" on a separate occasion) seconds to react and then chamber and throw a fully extended punch. That is about 10 times faster than the blink of an eye.
Cool. Scan or link or something?
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Please battlezone me. Wolverine vs Batman. I will gladly make you look down right foolish.Because your ignorant little **** and I cant stand you completely ignoring context anymore. Will get judges and I will put you in your place.
Sure homes. What does battlezone mean btw?
Basically, it's a more structured debate between two (or more debaters) usually with judges who collaborate and determine who "won" the debate based of various criteria.
Ideally, assuming you this was going to be just you versus Dum Dum with no other participants, you'd want an odd number of judges and people you'd trust to be fair and unbiased.
Originally posted by Letters
Yea I count all their fights mostley. Most of them have some kind of relevance one way or another.
You shouldn't, she was significantly amped when she was resurrected by the Hand.
Originally posted by Letters
Wasn't one of the BE Elektra fights a stalemate?
Well they both died in Elektra Lives Again, but that was from the Epic imprint and wasn't supposed to be canon at the time it was release. It's kind of confusing since it was later referenced in Elektra v2, which would seem to indicate that it was canon, but we are never given any explanation for how Bullseye came back after Elektra cut his head off...
There is also the time Bullseye fought both DD and Elektra at the same time in the Murdoc Papers, but that is Skruletra.
Originally posted by Letters
Again how was Wolvie weakened? He was just hooked up to life support machines and had plenty of time for the HF to heal him completeley.
Think about that sentence for a minute. He was on the life support because it was a necessity because his healing factor wasn't doing the job. Saying he had plenty of time to heal on life support is illogical... because the reason he was on life support was because he wasn't healing. There was a nurse there monitoring his vitals... if he was fine, she would have taken him off the life support.
I know you have a horse in the race, but at least make an effort at something resembling critical thinking.
Originally posted by Letters
Is that stated in the comic? Scans?
Just theorizing, but there isn't a lot of options. Wolverine fights Gorgon while his healing factor is working normally, and is killed somehow off panel. He is then resurrected by the Hand and his body is dumped somewhere in Africa, where SHIELD finds his burnt body and puts him in life support because his healing factor isn't healing the damage. Somewhere between dieing, and dumped in Africa his healing factor was burnt out for some unexplained reason. Magic Hand resurrection is the most logical explanation.
Originally posted by Letters
But DD DID do that. Maybe you should add those comprehension points for yourself. I know you still have a lot of penis points to use to upgrade to "Below Average", but maybe you should sacrifice for that.
Aw there is the Wang we all know and barely tolerate.
And Mexican farmers did knock out Silver Surfer with a hammer... but it isn't something they can actually do, hence, PIS. Please read the forum rules.
Originally posted by Letters
lol. You really believe this don't you? DD, Cap, Punisher, Elektra, Daken, X23, Mr X, Shang Chi, "Nope, that's ALL PIS".
Mr. X and Daken are the other two characters you listed that have legitimate wins over Wolverine, and they both simply Worf Effected him on their first appearances.
X-23 got Wolverine in her fist appearance, but that was later revealed to be a ruse to fool the X-Men and facilitate her escape. He took her down easily in their second exchange, and just let her beat on him in the third until he eventually talked her down.
The rest are hardly worth mentioning. Daredevil has one invalid PIS Garth Ennis example. On a separate occasion he broke the mind control of Wolverine, which eliminated the reason for the fight (which DD was losing)... that isn't a win. Cap knocked out Wolverine in EotS after the X-Men kicked his ass, something he couldn't do in an actually one on one fight. Punisher has two invalid PIS Garth Ennis examples neither of which took place in a fight. Elektra stabbed a weakened, mind controlled Wolverine in the throat... and then the fight ended by a torrent of rushing water splitting them up as Wolverine was pulling the sais from his neck. Shang-Chi got rolled by Wolverine in their only real fight.
Originally posted by Letters
which has nothing to do with him physically
Based on what? Your expertise on the metaphysical properties of the soul?
Consider we are told that it was the reason he was losing fights, I'm going to go out on a limb and say your wrong... again. At least you are consistent though.
Originally posted by Letters
So tranqs CAN affect Wolverine. Good thing Batman carries those.
Tranqs more powerful than the tranqs Batman carriers had little effect on a Wolverine SIGNIFICANTLY WEAKER than the Wolverine Batman would be facing in a form match. Put two and two together. Seesh.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
One on one debate with judges that we agree on. With a set start time and end time with normally a post limit. So you are agreeing to this match? Oh this will be quite enjoyable.
That sounds fun. Wed have to have no time limit cuz I work most days. Post limit is fine. Wed have to agree about Wolverines MA fight record beforehand. That sound ok?
Originally posted by Letters
That sounds fun. Wed have to have no time limit cuz I work most days. Post limit is fine. Wed have to agree about Wolverines MA fight record beforehand. That sound ok?
Also there has to be a time limit this can't simply be open ended. There has to be a defined end date.