Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The zetsu have done a better job of being distractions than the edo tendei'd army? The same zetsu that have repeatedly been shown to be fodder that can get handled by every no name character in the series? lol wut?I don't know what you've been reading this whole time. It ain't what the rest of us are reading, though. Many of the revived ninja have been nothing more than nuisances, but most of them have been the largest source of drama for the Village armies thus far. The white zetsu have barely been even a foot-note.
Maybe Tobi "could have" worked a way around Kabuto's help, but the point is that he didn't. His plan was, literally, "distract everyone with my army of zetsu while I used my bijuu to capture Naruto". That's it. I know he's your favorite villain in the series and all, but that's a really shitty plan.
The Zetsu had the army in chaos. Sure they aren't good fighters but that's the point: Subterfuge is what they're good at. Aside from Madara and the revived Kage(they were fighting battles without Zetsu involved anyway), what did the Edo Tensei guys do? They were busy work for Kakashi, Guy, Darui, and Team 10. Sure they were distractions and certainly killed quite a few no names but compare that to the Zetsu who were doing careful assassinations(like killing the medical ninja, probably the most important targets).
Course I can always be awesome and say the Edo Tensei defeated itself. vin
And you think the plan wasn't worked around to include Kabuto's new forces?
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v52/c490/6.html
It was. Not to mention Tobi's initial plan seemed to be capture the Jinchuriki while they were hiding. Kabuto did get in the way of that by offering to go in his stead.
Such shameless lowballing. There are numerous pages showing the edo tensei forces decimating swathes of the ninja alliance. Almost every one of the most powerful ninja in the series have been exhausted just by trying to take them out, and all the kages have been single-handily rendered non-factors by Madara. The white zetsu's most shining moment has been... killing some no-name medics and almost killing Sakura. Wow. That's really impressive.
None of the major players are even fighting the Zetsu anymore, they've all moved on to the more important targets, leaving the no-name fodder ninja to deal with the zetsu, and those no-name fodders are doing a perfect job of handling them. Thus, proving my point. If it came down to just an army of white zetsu, there would be nothing preventing all of the stronger characters from banding together to protect Naruto.
As for your example of Tobi "planning around Kabuto", I don't see how him making corny threats like "I'll be watching you" is proof of anything. That's turned out to not even be true, since, as we can see by Tobi's reaction to the edo tensei shutting down, he's both surprised and perturbed by the turn of events.
The point is simple: The Edo Tensei have offered no significant tactical advantage aside from being distractions(Madara excluded but Tobi certainly wasn't planning on Kabuto using him anyway). The white Zetsu on the other hand has at worst left a battlefield in chaos and at best left it in a stand still...until Naruto showed up. Which was the plan all along. Let Naruto weaken himself taking care of the hidden Zetsu and then take him. Done and done.
And as for the last few statements, "I'll revise my plans once I've seen what you can do" sounds very much like he's changed his plans to make use of the Edo Tensei's muscle. And really now? Tobi is upset because his ally lost and that ultimately left him weaker? You don't say. Granted, if he originally had no ally he'd have already worked around the problem of being outgunned. Probably requiring more of his own intervention and chakra but since he is the 2nd strongest character(next to Madara), I think he'd manage.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Maybe Tobi "could have" worked a way around Kabuto's help, but the point is that he didn't. His plan was, literally, "distract everyone with my army of zetsu while I used my bijuu to capture Naruto". That's it. I know he's your favorite villain in the series and all, but that's a really shitty plan.
Tobi is a shitty character.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelTHAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. IF THEY HADN'T BEEN THERE THEN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NOTHING TO STOP THE KAGES AND ALL THE IMPORTANT CHARACTERS FROM FIGHTING MADARA WHILE ALL THE NON-IMPORTANT CHARACTERS BEAT THE WHITE ZETSU' BRAINS IN.
[B]The point is simple: The Edo Tensei have offered no significant tactical advantage aside from being distractions
Granted, if he originally had no ally he'd have already worked around the problem of being outgunned. Probably requiring more of his own intervention and chakra but since he is the 2nd strongest character(next to Madara), I think he'd manage.Or, going by what we've seen, he would have just gone with his original plan which was to use his white zetsu army to distract everybody while he went for Naruto, which would have failed.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
AND THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. IF THEY HADN'T BEEN THERE THEN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NOTHING TO STOP THE KAGES AND ALL THE IMPORTANT CHARACTERS FROM FIGHTING MADARA WHILE ALL THE NON-IMPORTANT CHARACTERS BEAT THE WHITE ZETSU' BRAINS IN.Or, going by what we've seen, he would have just gone with his original plan which was to use his white zetsu army to distract everybody, which would have failed.
You mad bro?
Of course. He didn't revise his plans at all. Silly me, thinking he revised his tactics just because he said he would.
And you're missing three key things:
1. The plan worked. Naruto and Bee are out in the open and he is engaging them in battle.
2. No one could have predicted Naruto and Kurama becoming pals. That is the sole reason why the plan hasn't been completed yet.
3. Tobi's original plan was to get the Jinchuriki when Kisame sent him the info. The Zetsu plan was more or less the backup.
Chill out brah. It's like 3 where you live. Why you get so worked up when you can sleep?
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You mad bro?
Of course. He didn't revise his plans at all. Silly me, thinking he revised his tactics just because he said he would.As contradicted by the plot itself.
And you're missing three key things:It worked because everyone who is important except for Naruto is too busy fighting for their lives against Madara and co. to be around whooping Tobi's ass. It wouldn't have worked if the edo tensei hadn't been used.1. The plan worked.
2. No one could have predicted Naruto and Kurama becoming pals. That is the sole reason why the plan hasn't been completed yet.The plan wouldn't have gotten this far if Tobi had been fighting for his life against the Kages, which he would be doing right now were it not for the Edo Tensei.
Chill out brah. It's like 3 where you live. Why you get so worked up when you can sleep? [/B]lol wut? I'm trying to help you. You should feel honored that I'm making such an effort to illuminate you to the truth by emphasizing my point with caps, as opposed to just writing you off as hopelessly dense, like I have done with The Plague.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Disappointed people do not talk LIKE THIS. Least not the ones I know.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
As contradicted by the plot itself.
So you're using the plan he uses in the plot, which is specified to have been revised and was clearly revised, to prove that he would have gone with his revised plan anyway, regardless of whether it needed revision.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
It worked because everyone who is important except for Naruto is too busy fighting for their lives against Madara and co. to be around whooping Tobi's ass. Thank you once again for proving my point.
Onoki, Tsunade, Raikage, and Mei would not be on the battlefield period if it wasn't for the Edo Tensei. Mabui would not have needed to use her FTL technique if it weren't for the Edo Tensei being there so Tsunade would not have come up with the idea to use it. They're still nowhere near Tobi to actually DO anything.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The plan wouldn't have gotten this far if Tobi had been fighting for his life against the Kages, which he would be doing right now were it not for the Edo Tensei.
Tobi could kill the Kages if he fought them though. Besides which, why are they on the battlefield at all? Onoki was only there because he was needed to beat Mu. Raikage and Tsunade were only on the battlefield because Tsunade suggested using Mabui's technique(which they have no knowledge of without the Edo Tensei). Mabui isn't going to suggest it and A didn't think of it as quickly as Tsunade. And Mei can't get anywhere with Tsunade being there. So yay for Gaara, he's the only one there. Or not since he is in a different spot and would still need to haul ass.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
lol wut? I'm trying to help you. You should feel honored that I'm making such an effort to illuminate you to the truth by emphasizing my point with caps, as opposed to just writing you off as hopelessly dense, like I have done with The Plague.
It's too early to be illuminated.
Blaxican: you're wrong about a couple of things.
Tobi's plans:
Get all the biju.
Tobi is only one biju short. He only needs the Hachibi, now. Why? He said so when he aquired the pot with the brothers in it.
Tobi has been enormously successful in his campaign to acquire all of the biju. 😐
The Zetsus murdered thousands, throughout the night, with their "hide among the ninjas" plan.
Here are the two things that Tobi could not account for in his plans:
Naruto "mastering" his biju control.
Itachi breaking Edo Tensei (NObody could have predicted that, even in the real world, and been able to support that with anything of substance).
Despite those two things, Tobi has still been enormously successful. He still has a Rinnegan to use against Team Naruto. Who knows what is next?
I see Tobi succeeding in the next couple of chapters: Naruto will be spared because Tobi does not need his chakra. Then the story continues.
Another point: if it were not for Naruto, the shinobi alliance would have been decimated. They went from losing on every front to winning on just about every front. Naruto literally, single-handedly turned the tide of the war. I do not think that was planned for, by Tobi or Kabuto. KCM was not supposed to be possible for Naruto (and it really wasn't: it was only possible because of his mother's intervention...sneaky ass Minato winning wars, even from the grave.)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Blaxican: you're wrong about a couple of things.Tobi's plans:
Get all the biju.
Tobi is only one biju short. He only needs the Hachibi, now. Why? He said so when he aquired the pot with the brothers in it.
Tobi has been enormously successful in his campaign to acquire all of the biju. 😐
The Zetsus murdered thousands, throughout the night, with their "hide among the ninjas" plan.
Here are the two things that Tobi could not account for in his plans:
Naruto "mastering" his biju control.
Itachi breaking Edo Tensei (NObody could have predicted that, even in the real world, and been able to support that with anything of substance).
Despite those two things, Tobi has still been enormously successful. He still has a Rinnegan to use against Team Naruto. Who knows what is next?
I see Tobi succeeding in the next couple of chapters: Naruto will be spared because Tobi does not need his chakra. Then the story continues.
Another point: if it were not for Naruto, the shinobi alliance would have been decimated. They went from losing on every front to winning on just about every front. Naruto literally, single-handedly turned the tide of the war. I do not think that was planned for, by Tobi or Kabuto. KCM was not supposed to be possible for Naruto (and it really wasn't: it was only possible because of his mother's intervention...sneaky ass Minato winning wars, even from the grave.)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Tobi is only one biju short. He only needs the Hachibi, now. Why? He said so when he aquired the pot with the brothers in it.Tobi has been enormously successful in his campaign to acquire all of the biju. 😐
Well he couldn't have done that without Kabuto bringing them back. 😛
But he has been quite a successful guy all things considered. Really I like to think he's in as big a hurry as he is in because Kabuto really screwed him over summoning Madara when, according to Madara he was supposed to be brought back by other means and Tobi was planning to revive someone.
Edit: Nevermind. :T
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So both Kabuto and Naruto ****ed up Tobi's plans then? Well I can understand the Naruto bit anyhow. WHich reminds me, how did Tobi expect to extract Kurama from Naruto anyhow?
Once he has Naruto captured, I think the same ritual he used on Gaara and the others will do.
It'd be slow gowing with just him, Black Zetsu, and maybe Sasuke, but all that needs is a good hiding place.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
But if it took three days to extract the Shukaku with all the members present then how long would it have taken to get Kurama out?The SA would've had ample time to find said hiding place before the extraction was complete so it'd have to be a darn good hiding place.
It was only due to Kabuto that the SA was tipped off to the location of his base, and as he'd be teleporting there finding it would be very hard.
Kabuto actually made stuff worse for Tobi so that he'd have to rely on Kabuto more.