Originally posted by socool8520
Like I said, He was already injured/below peak condition when Madara arrived as shown by your own scans. I didn't say he didn't harm Gai or bee at all. That was Naruto I was referring to. I believe I said he shouldn't get all the credit for the state they are in now which still holds by the way.
Guy has clearly been injured again. Bee has been harmed again. The only reason Naruto doesn't show any signs of harm is because his mode heals him. By that logic not even Tobi has harmed him. And yeah, Tobi has worn them all down significantly. This does not take away from the fact that Madara is manhandling them.
Originally posted by socool8520
Really? having fun? then why say this:http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c607/18.html
By this point he was clearly not "having fun" anymore and was now taking things seriously. This is before Gai uses his strongest attack by the way so let's not use the toying around stuff anymore regarding Madara beyond this point.
That means up until then Madara was toying with them. Still is really considering he could go Full Susano'o and just kick Gyuuki and Naruto. If you think Madara is being 100% serious based on a statement then you're silly.
Originally posted by socool8520
This is conjecture. Nothing more. You have no backing except your own opinion. They have saved him from what, like 1 attack so far? They have been useless so far save for the last chapter. Nothing a clone feint couldn't have done for Naruto on his own. I guess you hadn't read where I have already acknowledged that Madara has the slight edge so far, but if you care to stop insulting and actually read my posts, you would already know that. It was the manhandling that i disagree with. Especially to Naruto who hasn't really been injured by Madara yet.
No, it's not a conjecture because there isn't any bias to it. Madara IS dealing with more than 1 strong guy on the field. This is a fact. If the number was reduced to just 1 person on the field, he would have a much easier time. You're acting like Naruto has been fighting this battle on his own when the fact of the matter is he hasn't been able to touch Madara whereas Madara has restrained him with Mokuton while also dealing two other guys, restraining Gyuuki and Naruto at one point. Naruto momentarily escaping doesn't change the fact that he was caught. And really how he got out of it was vague anyway.
Originally posted by socool8520
This is solely an opinion on how this was a somewhat victory for Madara. Way to reach there.
Lol somewhat. Madara succeeded in his plans to get the cells, meaning it's really a tie. Or a Xanatos Gambit since Madara "wins" regardless of whether or not he wins the powers. The point is you said his powers were given to him but what really happened was he always planned to obtain them.
Originally posted by socool8520
Doesn't this solely talk about each of the individual's battle with Kurama as seen from Kurama's eyes? How does this relate to Madara damaging Hashirama? If anything, this shows how hard of a time Kurama gave Hash, not Madara.
Kurama was being controlled by Madara. Damage Hashirama sustained in the fight is attributed to Madara, not Kurama, since the latter didn't have anything resembling free will.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Guy has clearly been injured again. Bee has been harmed again. The only reason Naruto doesn't show any signs of harm is because his mode heals him. By that logic not even Tobi has harmed him. And yeah, Tobi has worn them all down significantly. This does not take away from the fact that Madara is manhandling them.
So if I manage to injure De La Hoya right after he got punked by Roy Jones then I deserve to say I manhandled him? I guess I'll try this to up my rep. lol
Sure Gai and bee have been injured somewhat by Madara, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that they were already damaged and exhausted from fighting Tobi, and unlike Madara and naruto, they don't heal quickly. I don't know why Bee isn't even comparable, but that another debate in itself.
Even if Tobi had injured naruto, even though I can't recall him getting tagged a lot in their match, that would only make the fresh Madara's current fight even less impressive. So yeah, that does take away from his current edge right now.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
That means up until then Madara was toying with them. Still is really considering he could go Full Susano'o and just kick Gyuuki and Naruto. If you think Madara is being 100% serious based on a statement then you're silly.
never said he was going all out. I even stated that is when it will get exciting in my post to Jinzin. However, he states himself he isn't going easy anymore. This is where your bias comes into play. You talk about how Madara is still not giving effort and yet do not acknowledge the fact the Naruto, nor Bee, have done anything they are capable of yet either. Where are the beast balls? where is Naruto's multi clone feints/combined attacks? Rasenshurikens? Variations of rasengans? My dislike of madara is obvious, but I haven't overlooked his capabilities, and have even stated that he hasn't used his full arsenal yet. My only issue is that people seem to think that this largely uneventful fight is crazily one-sided when really, we haven't seen enough to decide that yet.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
No, it's not a conjecture because there isn't any bias to it. Madara IS dealing with more than 1 strong guy on the field. This is a fact. If the number was reduced to just 1 person on the field, he would have a much easier time. You're acting like Naruto has been fighting this battle on his own when the fact of the matter is he hasn't been able to touch Madara whereas Madara has restrained him with Mokuton while also dealing two other guys, restraining Gyuuki and Naruto at one point. Naruto momentarily escaping doesn't change the fact that he was caught. And really how he got out of it was vague anyway.
Sure there is. You whole-hardheartedly believe he has injured and dominated this fight based off of very little evidence that Naruto has been harmed, yet you also think that Naruto and co. has done nothing to madara this whole time. You don't know the exchange that has taken place during the Tobi flashbacks, and it is possible that Madara has healed from attacks made on him. i won't state that as my opinion since we don't know one way or the other. What we do know, is that very little has been done to either two of the big players in this fight, but with the chakra drain that stopped naruto momentarily, Madara has looked slightly better currently.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Lol somewhat. Madara succeeded in his plans to get the cells, meaning it's really a tie. Or a Xanatos Gambit since Madara "wins" regardless of whether or not he wins the powers. The point is you said his powers were given to him but what really happened was he always planned to obtain them.
you're right. Madara did take/obtain DNA from his loss to Hashirama, so it wasn't given to him, and he would be a formidable foe with that only (although it's debatable with his old body). What was given to him, which was the huge factor in my opinion, was his regenerative chakra, prime condition, and undying body. To my knowledge, he never planned for those things.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Kurama was being controlled by Madara. Damage Hashirama sustained in the fight is attributed to Madara, not Kurama, since the latter didn't have anything resembling free will.
I was under the impression that hash had captured/subdued all of the Bijuu at one point. This had lead me to believe also that Kurama was referring to a time when he was first subdued by hash, and not during the Madara fight. Why would Kurama bring up a memory when he was under mind control so to speak.
Regardless, If Kurama does the damage, then it should be attributed to him. If I pay someone to beat up a rival, I personally did nothing to him. The person i paid did all the work. I'm not gonna tell you that Madara didn't damage Hash, that would be silly. however, if you consider this short exchange in the last few chapters to be a manhandling situation for Madara, then you would be bias if you don't believe that Madara got his ass whipped by Hash.
For the record, I don't believe that was the case, and only used "ass whooped" as a sarcastic notion much in the same way people are viewing the current tussle.
On a different note, what in the world is Kakashi going to do about Tobi? He looks like he is about to die and Tobi, besides the rasengan to the face (and the armor seemed to tank that), looks largely healthy. If the alliance does show, I'm thinking kakashi is who they are saving, not naruto. It would be nice to see maybe Shikamaru come up with a game plan to take Tobi out. It would make him relevant again.
Originally posted by socool8520I actually sort of have a job that takes up a good portion of my free time, hence the late response.
^ ohh....we are still debating this? I thought everyone had already pretty much agreed that it wasn't a manhandling....Well I guess except for you. Slight advantage goes to Madara so far in their exchanges, but no manhadling as Naruto is fine, and Bee and Gai were jacked up before Madara ever showed up.Must be nice to have regenning chakra, Hash's techs (meaning he was given a special chakra bloodline/jutsus to deal with this situation), and an undying body just to be relevant.
I've already proved that objectively, you are wrong. Naruto being harmed to any great extent or not is irrelevant to the fact that he was manhandled.
Originally posted by socool8520
My bad, i guess I never continued the debate with you.Instance two still does not show that he injured Naruto at all. In fact, Naruto states that those level of attacks wouldn't work on him. As stated several times before, Bee and Gai were already gassed/injured when Madara showed up so him injuring them is not that great of a feat. It's like me saying I'm whooping up on Ali, Bruce Lee, and Chuck Norris even though Ali had just fought Foreman for 9 rounds and Bruce Lee has just gone through the tower in "Game of Death" (of course in the analogy we are pretending I'm a great fighter lol). he was still only fighting one relatively fresh S class ninja. But I have already conceded he has the advantage so far.
Manhandling, overwhelming advantage. they seem similar to me, and you just admitted to Madara not having one.
Doesn't matter, you'd lose even if you did. vin
No, Naruto states that Madara's mind-games wouldn't work on him, while rubbing his chin. Madara's arsenal also involves psychological attacks via his taunts, and he's pretty good at it. The fact that Naruto is rubbing his chin shows that he probably got hurt.
It is a good feat when you have Bee commenting on Madara's strength while wincing, and the two of them are rendered nearly useless by a Madara who isn't even being serious. Even if they aren't at full strength, it doesn't change the fact that one of them is the best known Jinchuurikii in Bijuu form, and the other is one of the strongest Jounins, someone who can beat a Jinchuurikii-level foe.
Heck, the only reason Naruto's still free to run around instead of being immobilized like Bee & Gai is because his Bijuu form is a chakra shroud instead of chakra flesh.
I don't think they are quite the same. An overwhelming advantage would be 25 Susano'o or Final Susano'o vs. the Kages. Manhandling would be what A was doing to Sasuke.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Doesn't matter, you'd lose even if you did. vinNo, Naruto states that Madara's mind-games wouldn't work on him, while rubbing his chin. Madara's arsenal also involves psychological attacks via his taunts, and he's pretty good at it. The fact that Naruto is rubbing his chin shows that he probably got hurt.
It is a good feat when you have Bee commenting on Madara's strength while wincing, and the two of them are rendered nearly useless by a Madara who isn't even being serious. Even if they aren't at full strength, it doesn't change the fact that one of them is the best known Jinchuurikii in Bijuu form, and the other is one of the strongest Jounins, someone who can beat a Jinchuurikii-level foe.
Heck, the only reason Naruto's still free to run around instead of being immobilized like Bee & Gai is because his Bijuu form is a chakra shroud instead of chakra flesh.I don't think they are quite the same. An overwhelming advantage would be 25 Susano'o or Final Susano'o vs. the Kages. Manhandling would be what A was doing to Sasuke.
What translation were you reading? I read nothing that translated to mind games.
Agree to disagree I guess.
Originally posted by socool8520
What translation were you reading? I read nothing that translated to mind games.Agree to disagree I guess.
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/607/16
Cajolery
To elicit or obtain by flattery, gentle pleading, or insincere language
Originally posted by NemeBro
I actually sort of have a job that takes up a good portion of my free time, hence the late response.I've already proved that objectively, you are wrong. Naruto being harmed to any great extent or not is irrelevant to the fact that he was manhandled.
"sort of have a job"...
mmm
Are you available tonight? flirt
http://www.mangadog.com/Naruto/607/18/
This is the translation i read. It's the same in wootmanga and magahere as well. this one doesn't insinuate mind games and makes more sense as it's right after an attack from Madara.
Originally posted by socool8520
http://www.mangadog.com/Naruto/607/18/This is the translation i read. It's the same in wootmanga and magahere as well. this one doesn't insinuate mind games and makes more sense as it's right after an attack from Madara.
Naruto saying he's the son of the 4th Hokage lends credence to the notion that Madara was playing mind-games with Naruto. That, and the fact that Madara likes to belittle and toy with his opponents both physically and psychologically.
So no.
_______________________________________
EDIT:
Chapter's out
The Ten-Tails looks ridiculous.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
http://littlesamson.tumblr.com/post/35699974071/naruto-609-chapter-reviewEpic stuff.
"The problem with the scene is once again linked to Kakashi. I don’t hate Kakashi but I’m kind of annoyed with the writing of his character at the moment. He really shouldn’t have gotten out of the dimension because now Obito won’t bother transporting him again. Kakashi basically wasted a Kamui and all he got out of it was two punches. My guess is that Kishi just wanted everyone together for what happens next…and one does have to wonder where the Naruto clone that was sent into the other dimension is. Either it went poof or Obito killed it offscreen."
Someone of Kakashi's level (slightly above average chakra levels for a Jonin) getting blasted with Kurama's chakra would be a massive infusion. Kakashi should be fine.
On top of that, Kakashi could have easily left a lightning shadow clone behind. 😐
😐
And Madara is just sitting around, literally.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I'm still concerned why Obito doesn't just use Preta and Asura path to own Kakashi. I mean what's the point of having a Rinnegan if you're not going to use it? Not sure what to think about Madara chilling but I guess he can afford it.The Juubi does look, weird.
I don't think he can use those and phasing at the same time.
He also might not have enough chakra to.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Someone of Kakashi's level (slightly above average chakra levels for a Jonin) getting blasted with Kurama's chakra would be a massive infusion. Kakashi should be fine.On top of that, Kakashi could have easily left a lightning shadow clone behind. 😐
😐
And Madara is just sitting around, literally.
It still depends on the amount of chakra Kurama gave to him. Even if he's fully recharged then it's still a waste because he was in the perfect position to support Naruto.
But we don't see that.
Madara can sense chakra just like Nagato could. He probably felt that the Gedo Mazo was nearly finished and decided they couldn't do anything about it. Alternatively, since the fight is taking place at super speed, the entire exchange took place as he was recovering from Guy's attack.