The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It ended an era of war, and set in place a system the entire shinobi world followed. I don't get why this is so hard to grasp.

Because the only thing that changed was instead of one clan versus everyone, it was a few allied clans versus everyone else. Instead of clan against clan it was village against village. How is that better?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Okay. Sage Mode Naruto fairly beat Deva Path, a Path of Pain, in direct combat. Konohamaru fairly beat a Naraku Path, a Path of Pain, in direct combat. Sounds similar to me, so I guess that since Sage Mode Naruto & Konohamaru both accomplished the same thing, which is victory over a Path of Pain, those two are on a similar level.

Not the same. One instance is visionary achievement and the other is physical.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, against Madara's susano'o clones, Tsunade and A, S-plains both, seemed to perform better.

He did beat the S+ 2nd Mizukage, but that involved both Mizukage advice and his father's gold.

Him vs his father, power seemed equal, Gaara just had better control and multitasking, and people were arguing 4th Kazekage for S minus. While there was enough support to put him in the S plain, he is one of the weaker S plains.

And I think 2nd Mizukage is one of the only S+s he could beat, purely because his sand matches up well against genjutsu and Jokey Boy both. Killerbee, Itachi, Onoki, Sasuke with complete Susano'o, Yagura, I think he'd be in trouble against all of them.

These are pretty good reasons.

Hey Q, why do you have Madara with EMS on the same level as Madara with rinnegan + senju DNA? I would think the latter is more powerful than EMS Madara. Honestly, I think everyone in the SS list could take EMS Madara.

Originally posted by socool8520
Hey Q, why do you have Madara with EMS on the same level as Madara with rinnegan + senju DNA? I would think the latter is more powerful than EMS Madara. Honestly, I think everyone in the SS list could take EMS Madara.

He is significantly more powerful than the SS- characters, and a near-equal with Hashirama. Those two should probably be on the same level.

At the same time, when asked if Madara + Rinnegan + Wood is enough to get him up to SS+, there hasn't been enough votes for that. Though I think with the showing of the wood dragon and so on he should be.

Originally posted by Q99
He is significantly more powerful than the SS- characters, and a near-equal with Hashirama. Those two should probably be on the same level.

At the same time, when asked if Madara + Rinnegan + Wood is enough to get him up to SS+, there hasn't been enough votes for that. Though I think with the showing of the wood dragon and so on he should be.

I would almost put Amped Madara and Naruto with full partnership at the top as they both have essentially limitless chakra. Naruto has to wait for Kurama to refill, but it's nearly the same thing. However if i had to choose one, I would give the Madara the slight nod currently as he has had the advantage so far.

Originally posted by socool8520
Not the same. One instance is visionary achievement and the other is physical.

Achievement implies it actually worked.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-165-12/naruto/chapter-160.html

It did not. Hiruzen shot her down.

Also in hindsight Tsunade's flashback was pretty sad.

Originally posted by socool8520
Because the only thing that changed was instead of one clan versus everyone, it was a few allied clans versus everyone else. Instead of clan against clan it was village against village. How is that better?

Not the same. One instance is visionary achievement and the other is physical.

Do villages go to war with each other every single day, and do they regularly send out children on extremely dangerous missions in a time when a World War is not occurring?
Hashirama never brought about Absolute world peace, but he did bring about some form of world peace. It's far better than Tsunade introducing a medical ninja system during a time of peace.

You ignored the magnitude & context of the achievement and instead looked at what it was at the very basic level. It does not matter if it was a 'physical' or 'visionary' achievement. If Tsunade's achievement is on the same level as Hashirama's because they both 'revolutionized how ninjas operate', then Konohamaru's achievement is the same as Naruto's as they both beat a Path of Pain. Ergo, Konohamaru = Sage Mode Naruto, according to your own logic.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, against Madara's susano'o clones, Tsunade and A, S-plains both, seemed to perform better.

He did beat the S+ 2nd Mizukage, but that involved both Mizukage advice and his father's gold.

Him vs his father, power seemed equal, Gaara just had better control and multitasking, and people were arguing 4th Kazekage for S minus. While there was enough support to put him in the S plain, he is one of the weaker S plains.

And I think 2nd Mizukage is one of the only S+s he could beat, purely because his sand matches up well against genjutsu and Jokey Boy both. Killerbee, Itachi, Onoki, Sasuke with complete Susano'o, Yagura, I think he'd be in trouble against all of them.

More of a match-up issue really. Besides, A was taken out easily, and Tsunade had been impaled. I'd say Gaara did better than them. Even though he was more exhausted, it is understandable given that he no longer has a Bijuu, while A has Gyuuki level chakra, and Tsunade had released her Yin Seal.

4th Kazekage had an advantage against Gaara, the same advantage he used to stop Shukaku. Gaara still bested him.

Not sure about Yagura, but agreed on the others. Though it is worth noting that Gaara can defend himself against Sasuke's Enton attacks.

Originally posted by Q99
He is significantly more powerful than the SS- characters, and a near-equal with Hashirama. Those two should probably be on the same level.

At the same time, when asked if Madara + Rinnegan + Wood is enough to get him up to SS+, there hasn't been enough votes for that. Though I think with the showing of the wood dragon and so on he should be.

He should be in SS+ IMO. ET Madara is essentially Hashirama + Madara with a Rinnegan + regeneration, which makes him more powerful than EMS Madara, and far more versatile. Though I wonder if ET Madara could use Sage Mode.

I want to see Oro cause havok and mayhem with the ability to use hand seals.

I also want to learn the details and motivation behind Edo Tensei's creation. Tobi will be getting some love in the near future. Unless of course Kishi just doesn't give a ****.

Post-Kabuto Orochimaru = Hand seals and Snake Sage Mode... k'want.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
I also want to learn the details and motivation behind Edo Tensei's creation. Tobi will be getting some love in the near future. Unless of course Kishi just doesn't give a ****.

Izuna's death. Tobirama loved Izuna, and was scared shitless of Madara.

excellent

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Izuna's death. Tobirama loved Izuna, and was scared shitless of Madara.

excellent

For some reason, crumbly, dry, clay butthole does not sound very stimulating.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

He should be in SS+ IMO. ET Madara is essentially Hashirama + Madara with a Rinnegan + regeneration, which makes him more powerful than EMS Madara, and far more versatile. Though I wonder if ET Madara could use Sage Mode.

I agree that ET Madara should probably be SS+.

I don't think that EMS Madara should be up their with current Naruto though. The only real advantage Madara has over Naruto now is the mokuton dragon.

Madara definitely has the capability to use sage mode (chakra control, vast amounts of chakra), but I don't think it's ever been stated that he has gone through the training, unless that's not a pre requisite anymore

Originally posted by socool8520
I agree that ET Madara should probably be SS+.

I don't think that EMS Madara should be up their with current Naruto though. The only real advantage Madara has over Naruto now is the mokuton dragon.

Madara definitely has the capability to use sage mode (chakra control, vast amounts of chakra), but I don't think it's ever been stated that he has gone through the training, unless that's not a pre requisite anymore

Well, Jiraiya is a very intelligent ninja. Unlike Naruto, he has book smarts but he also has Naruto's knack for learning stuff very quickly (just not as smart as Naruto).

Kabuto is unarguably a genius of epic proportions. His Chakra control is among the absolute best. His Sage Mode looked far worse/incomplete than Jiraiya's. Kabuto had far more snake/dragon traits than Jiraiya's toad mode.

Here is my point: Madara has not shown to be a master of chakra control. Sure, he has shown to have great command over it, but he just looks like a type that has tons of chakra. He just spams high level shit.

Sage training requires years of practice and a high level of chakra control. Naruto is the exception because he learns stupid hard shit in mere days that take other geniuses a years. Naruto has progressed to the point of chakra control that he can, very quickly, mold the Kyubi's potent chakra to fit the exact chakra "type" needs of about a dozen or so ninja. I would argue that Naruto's chakra control rivals that of chakra control geniuses like Tsunade.

So, basically, Madara should not come close to having any type of Sage Mode. The only person, thus far, to show a mastery of Sage Mode is Naruto. No other character has mastered Sage Mode, yet.

We can probably assume that the Great Sage had mastered Sage Mode...probably to a greater extent than Naruto. Naruto can very quickly get into Sage Mode.

Right, so he doesn't have the training. lol I just assumed because of his status that his chakra control is pretty damn good. He is genius after all.

I figured that the reason Kabuto's Sage mode was imperfect was his inexperience of it. That and his imperfect control over the DNA he was taking in order to obtain sage mode.

Originally posted by dadudemon
For some reason, crumbly, dry, clay butthole does not sound very stimulating.

But it regenerates, so he can be as rough as he wants to be. 313

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
More of a match-up issue really. Besides, A was taken out easily, and Tsunade had been impaled. I'd say Gaara did better than them. Even though he was more exhausted, it is understandable given that he no longer has a Bijuu, while A has Gyuuki level chakra, and Tsunade had released her Yin Seal.

He was more exhausted, but Tsunade had already refilled his tanks and healed him. And sure, Tsunade was impaled, but she doesn't care about being impaled ^^

The Kage pretty much faltered in order of experience against the clones, least to most.

Not to take away from Gaara in that, mind, he's pretty awesome, but he wasn't more awesome than his fellow Kage.

Not sure about Yagura, but agreed on the others. Though it is worth noting that Gaara can defend himself against Sasuke's Enton attacks.

Yagura had full control of his beast, meaning Biju ball.

Plus he had that cool reflection move.

He should be in SS+ IMO. ET Madara is essentially Hashirama + Madara with a Rinnegan + regeneration, which makes him more powerful than EMS Madara, and far more versatile. Though I wonder if ET Madara could use Sage Mode.

I doubt he had sage, but yea, I agree with you.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
But it regenerates, so he can be as rough as he wants to be. 313

I don't think he's a masochist.

INB4 someone says I meant sadist. I didn't. 😐 He wants to harm himself for pleasure by loving a clay body.

I don't see any reason to assume Madara would know how to use a sage mode form.