I agree. Izuna has even less showings and accomplishments than Tobirama. Like...does Izuna even have 1 showing/feat/action/whatever besides handing Madara his eyes? Hope he does because I am beginning to like Tobirama's attitude and I want him to step up and stop being the lamest Hokage.
Though Tobi should be recognized as a genius in his own right. He has come up with the most broken and efficient jutsus in the series(besides Mokuton and the Sharingan BS)
Originally posted by Zack Fairget outta here. Sounds like you're looking at the current war alone with the all the bijuu bombs and forgetting everything else that happened in part 2.
The fights were better too. More tactical and stuff. Nowadays its just who pulls the biggest hack out of their ass.
Gara vs Deidara
Chiyo and Sukura vs Sasori
Konan vs Obito
Deidara vs Sasuke
Team 10 vs Kakuzu and Hidan
Sasuke vs Itachi
Sasuke vs Danzo
Jiraiya vs Pain
Naruto vs Pain
All of those fights involved strategy and tactics. Furthermore, if things were the same as they were in part 1, you would b!tch and moan about the lack of progression and about how things aren't on a big enough scale.
lol. The majority of the fights you just listed ended with one of the characters asspulling some deuce ex machina. Summoning Manda, Izanagi, Susano'o, Rasenshuriken, the Pein Bodies. It's undeniable that Shippuden is far more DBZ-like in its fights than Part 1 was, the power creep has made that undeniable. I mean, for ****s sake, the ANBU watching the 3rd and Orochimaru fight were literally shitting themselves in awe because the 3rd was able to combine fire and earth to create mud spikes the size of a forearm. Fast forward to Part 2 and you're a nobody unless you can level a city block with your ki-blasts or re-write the space-time continuum.
What we have now isn't comparable in the slightest to a time where almost every fighter had only two or three techniques in their arsenal and had to think outside the box in order to win with them. The "you just saw my super sayan form, now get a look at my super sayan 2!" trope began in the Sasuke Retrieval arc, with the Curse Seal level 1 and 2 power-ups, and it's been steadily getting worse over time.
Originally posted by marwash22STFU.
get outta here. Sounds like you're looking at the current war alone with the all the bijuu bombs and forgetting everything else that happened in part 2.Gara vs Deidara
Chiyo and Sukura vs Sasori
Konan vs Obito
Deidara vs Sasuke
Team 10 vs Kakuzu and Hidan
Sasuke vs Itachi
Sasuke vs Danzo
Jiraiya vs Pain
Naruto vs PainAll of those fights involved strategy and tactics. Furthermore, if things were the same as they were in part 1, you would b!tch and moan about the lack of progression and about how things aren't on a big enough scale.
Even the recent fights- Ino-possession has played a role in multiple. The Shinobi Alliance tried to deal with Juubi by buring it. Killerbee's Biju Bombs were ineffective *until* combined with kamui for surprise factor. Naruto dealt with Son by letting him get swallowed. Naruto and Kakashi working together to figure out how to hit Obito.
I think the big attacks make people forget all the tactics that's fairly consistently going on around them.
Izuna has even less showings and accomplishments than Tobirama. Like...does Izuna even have 1 showing/feat/action/whatever besides handing Madara his eyes?
Not really, other than him having a full Mangekyo Sharingan and all of those being pretty powerful.
We do know he's Tobirama's rival, though, and though he lost in the end should be on the same level.
Originally posted by Q99👆
Even the recent fights- Ino-possession has played a role in multiple. The Shinobi Alliance tried to deal with Juubi by buring it. Killerbee's Biju Bombs were ineffective *until* combined with kamui for surprise factor. Naruto dealt with Son by letting him get swallowed. Naruto and Kakashi working together to figure out how to hit Obito.I think the big attacks make people forget all the tactics that's fairly consistently going on around them.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
All I know is I rarely get that WTF, awesome! feeling from fights anymore.You know...like Neji vs the spider ****** and naruto's digging stunt vs neji.
Keep in mind part of this may be because it's no longer new and different.
Back in those fights, there'd been a fairly small number of Naruto battles. Now there's been a couple dozen more.
You're just much more used to it now.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
lol. The majority of the fights you just listed ended with one of the characters asspulling some deuce ex machina.
This will be fun.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Summoning Manda,
Not an asspull if it has been shown before. It would be like Jiraiya summoning Gamabunta. The problem here is in execution, not content.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Izanagi,
No more of an asspull than Edo Tensei really. It's a move meant to show off a character's moveset that becomes a plot point later on.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Susano'o,
Yep this one was pretty much out of nowhere. But it did become a plot point for later on unlike, say, this move.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Rasenshuriken,
The move Naruto spent an entire arc training on? How is that any different from his summoning Gamabunta in his fight with Gaara or using Rasengan?
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
the Pein Bodies.
No more of an asspull than Kankuro's extra puppets in the Sasuke Retrieval arc and far more relevant to the actual plot really.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
It's undeniable that Shippuden is far more DBZ-like in its fights than Part 1 was, the power creep has made that undeniable.
The series is no longer primarily focused on 12 year olds so yeah you should have seen this coming.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I mean, for ****s sake, the ANBU watching the 3rd and Orochimaru fight were literally shitting themselves in [b]awe because the 3rd was able to combine fire and earth to create mud spikes the size of a forearm.[/B]
I don't think this scene is anywhere in the manga really.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Fast forward to Part 2 and you're a nobody unless you can level a city block with your ki-blasts or re-write the space-time continuum.
Sasuke has done neither of those things. Neither has Kabuto.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
What we have now isn't comparable in the slightest to a time where almost every fighter had only two or three techniques in their arsenal and had to think outside the box in order to win with them.
Well yeah they know more techniques. Since they stopped being, you know, 12. It's not like we haven't seen a 12 year old fight in Part 2. But strategy is still being used in combat.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
The "you just saw my super sayan form, now get a look at my super sayan 2!" trope began in the Sasuke Retrieval arc, with the Curse Seal level 1 and 2 power-ups, and it's been steadily getting worse over time.
Spoken like someone who has never watched DBZ! And since we knew about the Curse Seal level 2 before the actual, you know, fights you can't really qualify them as asspulls. In that regard Rock Lee and his Gates really are the starting points for power modes that came out of nowhere(but that fight is beloved so no criticizing that one). Mind you that few characters actually change form in fights anyway. The Jinchuriki do it but we know where it comes from. Sage Mode is another but it got a detailed explanation since Naruto learned to do it(once again the problem isn't in content but execution). Each evolution of the Sharingan is usually explained or alluded to before we see it in action, with Itachi's MS teasing at things to come.
In Part 1 there were roughly 4 high level fights. The first being Zabuza vs Kakashi, which no genin has really matched in terms of scale since they aren't throwing Water Dragons around. The second being Hiruzen vs Orochimaru, which did have a profound impact on the environment the battle took place in and would probably have continued to do so had Hiruzen not realized how futile it was. The third was Shukaku vs Naruto/Gamabunta, which was compared to a monsoon and was ended before the former could continue wrecking the environment. And the last was the Sanin battle, where Kishi purposefully weakened them so that he could expand on their abilities in the future(and he did). And even that fight changed the area pretty significantly.
In Part 2 there are simply way more higher ranked ninja since the Akatsuki, high level Jonin, Jinchuriki, and even the Kage are more relevant to the the story. It was inevitable that the series seem more power focused. But of course strategy is still there so no problem for me.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So I take it that everyone here has blocked out the horrendous technique known as Izanami from their minds. Cause that's an even bigger asspull than Susanoo.I would also like to note that the increased potency of talk-no-jutsu in Part 2 in comparison to Part 1.
Hush your whore mouth about that technique.
Well the threats are bigger so I can kinda see it. And part 1 ended on talk-no-jutsu failing on Sasuke so yeah.
Originally posted by psycho gundamHaven't you read Effect Veiler's posts? Sasuke and everyone faster than Haku, are FTL.
that makes it worse since sasuke was inside his mouth.the worst part however is how he had no time to even do all the stuff he said he did before getting caught up in the blast, it all just sort of worked somehow after the fact.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Yep this one was pretty much out of nowhere. But it did become a plot point for later on unlike, say, this move.
Hinted at way back here, and nearly everyone and their mothers knew that Susano'o would appear at some point in the Uchiha hideout battle.
Problem was, using your own words, in the content, not execution.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Sasuke has done neither of those things. Neither has Kabuto.
Sasuke destroyed a dimension, and Kabuto created a city buster. 313