The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by marwash22
i didn't say drop the minus ranks. If Hashi is "S", anyone not on his level, but close, would be "S-"... and so on.

Also, the actual purpose of the ranks is to categorize techniques and danger level of missions... not necessarily the overall power of the ninja.

imo, "Kage" should be the top rank.

Hashi, Madara, Naruto, etc. would be "Kage", everone below can be "S". If you want to be more specific, just rank them numerically within each rank.

[b]Kage level

1. Hashi
2. Madara
3.
4.
5.
6.

the minus and plus, and the SSS stuff is weird. [/B]

The SSS stuff was just a nod towards DMC's stoopid ranking system. Wasn't expecting Q to actually put it in, even though I insisted. peaches

Ranking them numerically is somewhat of a challenge as you go down the ranks. Obviously Hashirama, Madara, Naruto and Tobi are far above everyone else, to the point where any one of them could likely take out a large portion of the other S-ranked ninja by themselves, as Madara so easily demonstrated against the 5 Kage.
It gets a little more muddled once you drop down to ninjas like Sasori and Kisame, who are 'S' rank according to the system used by the villages, but far below people like Madara.
Hebi Sasuke was able to beat Deidara because a significant portion of his moveset could counter Deidara's. Gaara's moveset on the other hand, wasn't. Yet both Hebi Sasuke and First half of Part 2 Gaara are close to each other, if not on the same level, in terms of combat skills.

And Q has repeatedly stated that her tier list is not the be all end all of Naruto tier lists here on KMC. Iirc, pewpy balls dude made one of his own.

when it gets tricky/difficult to distinguish gaps in power, the numerical list usually goes something like:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
5.
5.
5.
5.
10.
11.
12.
12.
12.
15.

etc. Everyone with the same number is roughly equal within that ranking.

I'm not suggesting Q change her format, btw, just stating an opinion.

Originally posted by Kento
Yea, why can't Naruto, and Sakura be like Karin. At least when he tries to kill her she's smart enough to be like "I'm done." lol

Remember when we used to think this? I do. It was a very nice moment for a minor character. I miss this.

You know I like Jugo and Suigetsu but damn if Taka/Hebi has been so underutilized. Surely Kishi could have come up with something cool for them to do.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I don't mean that there's too many people in the S-class ranges, what I mean is that continuously adding an additional "S" (S, SS, SSS, etc) dilutes the impact of the rank.

Yea, but... that's because we have people far above it who have a lot more impact than S-class people.

Marwash
imo, "Kage" should be the top rank.

Hashi, Madara, Naruto, etc. would be "Kage", everone below can be "S". If you want to be more specific, just rank them numerically within each rank.

Kage is an actual job, though.

And things often don't rank up nice numerically, it can be very hard to tell who's stronger within a specific rank between people with dissimilar powers. Not necessarily even *tied*, just 'we don't know'.

That's why I keep them in general categories.

If you want to rank them more numerically... I say go for it!

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Remember when we used to think this? I do. It was a very nice moment for a minor character. I miss this.

You know I like Jugo and Suigetsu but damn if Taka/Hebi has been so underutilized. Surely Kishi could have come up with something cool for them to do.

Suigetsu wanted to wield the swords, he could have at least been powerful, and brave....He wants to run away now.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I don't mean that there's too many people in the S-class ranges, what I mean is that continuously adding an additional "S" (S, SS, SSS, etc) dilutes the impact of the rank.

Yea, but that's because we have people far above it who have a lot more impact than most S-class people.

They really aren't on the level of prior S-class ones, andit makes sense to separate them.

Originally posted by marwash22
Naruto fanart, by james-face

Gaara
Nagato & Konan
Zabuza & Haku

Neat 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but... that's because we have people far above it who have a lot more impact than S-class people.

Originally posted by Q99
Kage is an actual job, though.

Originally posted by Q99
And things often don't rank up nice numerically, it can be very hard to tell who's stronger within a specific rank between people with dissimilar powers. Not necessarily even *tied*, just 'we don't know'.

Originally posted by Q99
If you want to rank them more numerically... I say go for it!

imo, that just means the definition of S-class has been redefined. We don't know exactly when the ranking system was established, but I think it's safe to say Hashi, Madara and the older Kage were all dead when they were. The system is based on who was perceived to be the most powerful at the time of it's creation... if Hashi and Madara were around, they would be the standard for S-class and Akatsuki would be A-class fugitives.

But they aren't going to group Jonin level (A-class) and Kage level (S-class) people together. So even if they had done that naming convention, we'd still have the same classes, just with different names.

One advantage is that as this is the class system they use, aside from the 'missing classes' up top. Which makes it easier to tentatively put anyone in the lower classes in the chart just via their rank, a big advantage to using it.

valid point. Numbering it would take more time and effort, and cause more discussion/argument about placement.

Some of the easiest ones to disagree on are, for example, the ninja with big anti-area powers vs ninja with great anti-individual powers. Person A can crush an army, Person B can't, but person B can kill person A. Who's stronger?

Depending on how one prioritizes, it could really shift things around.

Also, I for one rank support powers just as high, but I know a lot of people don't.

nah, i'll leave it to you. I was just commenting on the format, i think your actual character rankings are well done.

Thanks 🙂

Badass Sakura fanart

if you dont know anithing about naruto, il recomend you start looking for some info. about it, its realy cool.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Reading your entire post left a bad taste in my mouth, and I don't know why you are so obsessed with Sasuke, but I will answer this.

Originally posted by killermover
Because, he's the reason Naruto is a mediorce manga and everyone and their mothers wants him to get owned by Naruto. Because Kishimoto jumped the shark and decided to make Naruto more stuish as Sasuke is more popular than him and hates that.

I hate Taka Sasuke. I seriously consider him one of the worst characters or the manga among the characters who still matter. Ino or Sai are probably worse. But they hardly matter anymore. On the other hand Sasuke is very central character.

I won't even adress the fact he spams MS and fights like a retard.

Until Hebi Sasuke he was still my favourite character.

We can agree or disagree many things about Sasuke except his relevance as character. He had his own backstory built in terms of character relationships and themes that weren't related at all with the main character.

Sasuke was designed as rival of Naruto. But at the same time he was his own character with his own theme or motive: revenge.

Revenge constitutes everything that drives this character. We can agree or disagree if this theme was cliche or if Sasuke methods were justified or not. In fact many of the great debates in this forum born from that notion. Kishimoto always allowed room for that discussion. Regardless what you feel about the theme of revenge or if you dislike or like Sasuke we can all agree if something it's cliche it still could OR SHOULD be well developed.

One Piece, Kenichi and other shounen follow many cliches formulas but they give their own flavour and remain consistent.

So here I will adress my first reason I dislike Taka Sasuke.

1-What was crucial to Sasuke's character was the dichotomy between his goal and his method.

Kishimoto never said Sasuke's revenge per se was wrong. He never questioned the moral ground of Sasuke for wanting revenge. He questioned the methods and consecuences. That's why Kakashi said "stop your revenge... it will make you feel empty at the end". He isn't saying Sasuke wasn't justified... but at the end it won't bring him happiness.

This allow certain readers, fans, etc to make a connection with the character for good or bad. We know this kid suffered a great loss.

It's the weigh of that loss enough to justify any method?.

That was a question every reader had to answer. Our reaction towards the character would be a consecuence to that answer.

Taka Sasuke doesn't even leave space for that question. Kishimoto turned him into the Avatar of Hatred in order to justify his next fight against Naruto. Kishimoto destroyed all moral ambiguity in the character that set him apart from a villian and practically turned his goal and his method into something so childishly evil that doesn't left room for debate anymore. Before his fight with Itachi Sasuke was basically character-driven. He acted for good or wrong in terms or his convictions. That's why Sasuke could be ready to kill Naruto and at the same time try to save Oro's prisioners without any gain. That's why we could get different kind of reactions from him instead HATREEEEED like he was Nemesis from Resident Evil 3.

Kishimoto himself took a bit of time to react to the changes. For example making Taka Sasuke pulling an Amaterasu of friendship to save Team Taka AFTER ITACHI'S REVELATION. Yet in the next arc that involved him he was impaling Karin and laughing about it. What kind of character development is that?. It's not so much about Sasuke turning totally evil really... but it was so bad developed that is pathetic. If that was intention all along Kishimoto should spare us from comments like "I won't follow Itachi footsteps" and should focus from the beginning of Part 2 into following Sasuke slow descend to the darkness.

Instead of that what we get?.

Madara: Some random 3 elders ordered your brother kill your family. By the way... I took part in that too... but you shouldn't care too much.

Sasuke: HATREEEEED.... I'm the avatar of the elder son..... I'm gonna rape Team Taka even if that wasn't my style 30 chapters ago.

Hebi Sasuke hardly wanted to kill someone for pleasure before. Itachi was a duty. He tried to kill Team 7 only because he felt they get in the path of his revenge and to cut his bonds. But he never went on purpose trying to kill someone who wasn't directly implied in his revenge. We have the example of the 1000 fodders he defeated training with Oro, sparing Oro's experiments, saving Taka members, avoiding to kill Deidara, etc. Now Kishi pulls this shit he want "everyone felt his hatred... and turn his laughs into screams and crap" He completely changed his mentality.

Taka Sasuke was ready to spare DEIDARA who is more related to the evil Itachi represented by virtue to been partners in the Akatsuki... yet right now he wants to kill little girls, old men, women, etc that hardly were related with what Danzo and the other 2 elders did just for the lulz?.

Which brings me to the second point....

2-The target of his revenge.

We all agree that a good revenge story should have a memorable target.

This what pre-retcon Itachi represented.

1-The brother of the victim
2-Betrayed his trust
3-Appeared as an super powerful and invincible villian (at last in Part 1... I'm just talking the way he was introduced).

All this elements constitute a good drama. While I didn't like Itachi turning into a "dood guy" this development could have been better if was introduced at the end of the manga instead killing him in the middle leaving an empty Sasuke who was turned into a plot driven character to hype Naruto.

I don't like Itachi. But I admit among all characters there isn't one with the potential to enhance Sasuke's theme.

Itachi always should have been Sasuke's final boss. Killing him so soon was a mistake in my opinion.

Seriously who is Sasuke's target right now?. 3 random elders that hardly were developed during the series and Konoha villagers.

One of the main questions of the series was if Sasuke would be able to fulfill his revenge. Now this question was destroyed. What is his target seriously?. He already killed Danzo who was the main instigator against Uchiha. What this mean?. He completed 16% of his revenge or something?. There is no sense of completition anymore. Regardless if Itachi was good or not this answer and his fight should introduced at the end to close Sasuke's story.

There isn't so much drama between random elders and villagers compared to Itachi who was directly related to Sasuke, shared a backstory, a bond, etc... "Oh I'm gonna kill fodder number 392...." who ****ing cares?.

The only way to fix this a little would be if Itachi never killed the Uchiha at all and all was done by Madara instead just "helping him"... and even then it isn't a comparable bond. Besides Madara was already hyped as Naruto's final villian.

Maybe if Namikaze or Uzumaki clan were directly related to Uchiha's massacre.... nah... nothing with fix this crap anymore....

At this point I'm just interested in how everything will end and if Madara will provide more lulz trolling everyone. Sasuke has turned into a horrible character... not just for his haters... but for everyone who doesn't keep deluding himself. Probably it's consecuence of the whole manga going down into the toilet (Naruto turning into a messiah for example or secondary characters turned into Gato's samurais in terms of relevance) but at last I was hoping if Kishimoto would sacrifice the whole manga to develop a theme he would put more effort. Otherwise bring Ino and made her kage level.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You responded to a sentence with an essay.

Still funny.

jesus effing christ. I'm tempted to read that.

killermover was an absolute delight. The forum needs more people like him.

Also:

Originally posted by killermover
I'm just passionate like that. I am in college after all. I do essays in my sleep, but the real question is will you anwser back?

Originally posted by dadudemon
YOU'RE IN COLLEGE???!?!?!?!?

Dude, I sooo thought you were like 13 or something.

haermm

It's kind of astonishing how I, a Sasuke fan, can read through all of these old posts that show quite a bit of venomous(and inconsistent) behavior to him but the most annoying person was his biggest fan.

Its more astonishing that Sasuke fans even exist.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its more astonishing that Sasuke fans even exist.

Not at all. Even ignoring the fans who like him for being sexy or whatever(never saw it), many kids can relate to being a loner with a lot of talent. Many kids have an undeservedly high opinion of themselves.

That or they just think he is cool because he does cool things.

being aloof and having a superiority complex is cool?

To many people it is. Granted Sasuke also has an inferiority complex too.

Sasuke hasn't been cool in a longass time.

Your opinion. Cool is simply something that can't be objectively judged.

Personally I thought he was cool in this chapter for immediately booking it to Tobi. No nonsense there. And then there was teh Pinwheel of Doom!