The Official Naruto series Thread

I can see them making Madara kind of question his resolve, but I doubt they would really be able to shake his views on the world before making him disappear.

My favorite villain in Naruto who questioned his resolve would have to be Zabuza still. He remained a true badass even into his death, and it took the death of the person closest to him to change him. Plus it was done with a very limited amount of flashbacks which was always nice.

I just watched the new episode, and I was wondering if there is anything in the manga to support that there were other Uchiha with the Mangekyo Sharingan?
Because there was a bunch of anime exclusive characters in Itachi's Izanami/Izanagi flashback who all had awakened theirs.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Naori_Uchiha
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Naka_Uchiha
Just wondering if that's consistent with the canon.

They're anime only characters which is usually considered as secondary canon. If the anime's portrayal of those events does not contradict anything in the manga, those characters can be considered canon. IMO.

That chick's the first known female user of the Sharingan. Heh.

Those people should have just had the basic Sharingan imo. It really makes no sense for that many people to possess the Mangekyo Sharingan, since it is a legendary ability, and thus [should] only be attainable by the absolute best of the Uchiha. Even the Uchiha Clan's former leader (Sasuke and Itachi's dad) had only heard about it rather than seen it for himself. Also, despite all of that legendary visual prowess that those Uchiha were shown to possess, they were still losing to an unknown clan prior to using Izanagi (which again makes no sense since they're the second most powerful clan just with the basic Sharingan)

Unlocking it isn't legendary or about skill, just whether or not one goes though a tragedy and manages to get it. It's just an unknown method of obtaining it, a tid-bit of information that was likely Chinese whispered over the years.

Get the Sharingan then experience the pain of losing a loved one and there you have it.

Seeing as you don't need to be special or with great skill, its understandable that those with the Mangegan can be defeated by other strong ninjas. The eye strain from using power, its double edge sword, would put many off that have it unless they really needed to. And that's if they even get a useful power. A time limit or weaker tech would make it less useful in battle, as would the fact that as seen with Kakashi and Sasuke the abilities need to be trained.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Unlocking it isn't legendary or about skill, just whether or not one goes though a tragedy and manages to get it. It's just an unknown method of obtaining it, a tid-bit of information that was likely Chinese whispered over the years.

Get the Sharingan then experience the pain of losing a loved one and there you have it.

He's got a point about the MS being rare though. I'd forgotten that Fugaku did not have it.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Also, despite all of that legendary visual prowess that those Uchiha were shown to possess, they were still losing to an unknown clan prior to using Izanagi (which again makes no sense since they're the second most powerful clan just with the basic Sharingan)

Izanagi is performed with the basic Sharingan.
And the Uchiha were the second most powerful clan during the Warring States era.
We don't know how powerful they were during recent years. I'll watch the episodes and then respond properly.

Not rare in the sense that it shows up once in a blue moon though. Realistically anyone with a Sharingan who has been through a major loss has the possibility to access it.

Yeah, that's almost Rinnegan level rare, which the MS isn't, but it's rare in the sense that Fugaku stated that only a few Uchiha had achieved it throughout the clan's history.

And none of them bothered to ask those who had it about how they obtained it..

Probably because they wouldn't tell someone else that they had murdered their best friend, or that a person should murder his best friend to obtain power.

Cannot for the life of me see the issue raised with that.

Also, I'd go out on a limb and say that's not the *only* pre-requisite. Having an already awakened sharingan certainly is a requirement. And perhaps some awaken it but lack the chakra to use it, ala Kakashi with his at first.

If awakening the Mangekyo was that easy, then how come, in hundreds of years of the Uchiha Clan's history, Madara and Izuna were the first to awaken theirs, only 90ish years ago? Because that would mean no other 3-tomoe Sharingan user ever witnessed true sorrow in centuries, which would obviously be stupid.

I personally think that you have to have the latent capability and innate talent in order to awaken it. All the known Uchiha who have it in the canon, except for Obito, were known for their skill and were labeled as prodigies. Seems like a goof up to me that they showed so many Uchiha who had awakened the Mangekyo Sharingan.

The whole "Except Obito" part discredits that as proof.

Maybe the person has to experience tragic loss personally with their Sharingan activated at the time? Or maybe there are a ton more of them out there but like Kakashi, who took half a decade to either realise he had it/use it for the first time. And at that point he knew something about the Mangegan, that its real too. The other sleeper Gans could have been in this boat.

There may also be different qualities of mangekyo in different Uchiha families. Sasuke and Itachi (who I presume are fairly direct off Madara/Izuna's family) got the powerful Susano'o version, but Obito's time/space was quite different, and Shisui's was different stuff. Some might've simply had weak ones or, like Shisui's, very slow-to-respond ones.

Hm, and maybe the degree of tragedy matters. Many in the rougher times may not have gotten as attached. Or be so used to their friends dying that it lost impact. Madara's dad seemed pretty hardened, and someone who's heart is hardened can probably never unlock the Mangekyo.

Sasuke had to kill his brother, his brother had to kill his non-enemy best friend for his village, Obito had to watch one of the people he loved the most die at the hands of another who he loved the most. Even for Uchiha, these are fairly atypical.

Finally, one other situation I can think of: Mangekyo users dying in the tragedies that triggered them. If their brother or best friend dies before their eyes, then they're in a battle with a fairly strong foe, and simply raging out on mangekyo may not be able to save them, especially depending on what it is. Imagine getting a genjutsu one when in a battle against a dozen senior chunin- no way you eye contact them all. Or amaterasu against an earth user. Or whatever. They may even be exhausted at the time it awakens and too weak to use it.

Originally posted by Q99
Also, I'd go out on a limb and say that's not the *only* pre-requisite. Having an already awakened sharingan certainly is a requirement. And perhaps some awaken it but lack the chakra to use it, ala Kakashi with his at first.

There is also the blindness aspect, which could only be reversed by transplanting the eyes of a close relative with the MS.
Some of the Uchiha may have tried their best to avoid the MS if they knew they'd have to take the eyes of someone they loved. After all, these are people who would willingly give up their sight just so their comrades would learn to accept reality.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Also, despite all of that legendary visual prowess that those Uchiha were shown to possess, they were still losing to an unknown clan prior to using Izanagi (which again makes no sense since they're the second most powerful clan just with the basic Sharingan)

They weren't losing their battle because they were weaker. They fell into a trap.

Speaking of, how's Kakashi's and Obito's eyesight?

Kakashi was using it a couple times at the start of part two, an obvious assumption he's been testing it out beforehand, and then was training it up to his more refined levels by the Pain arc and the war.

And Obito has been constantly using it in every possible opportunity,

How come their eyes are fine from such repeat usage while Sasuke was going through the bleeds, suffering eye pains and was already losing his vision in a month or two? There's no way he's used it more than them in such a short time.

Then again Itachi has had his for a several years with obvious use and his eyes only recently got to a unmanageable state.. hmm..

Well, it's not Kakasi's eye so he should be fine.

As for Obito, I always assumed he didn't use it a ton. Only recently does it seem he began to get into fights otherwise he seems to have been leading from behind the scenes.

Well it's a completely different Mangekyou technique unique only to them. Apparently the drawbacks aren't nearly as severe as overusing the traditional techniques.