Ok, so ranks!
I'm thinking
Madara Uchiha (Juubi Jinchuuriki) goes at SSS+
Sasuke and Naruto (Six Paths Yin and Six Paths Yang, respectively) each go at SSS.
Kaguya Otsutsuki goes to SSSS
Might Gai (8 Gates) at SSS- (and only that low due to it being a short time thing)
Guy's dad- I'm open to suggestions? He apparently never got past genin but can open 8 gates... his 8th must be massively weaker than Might Gai, but he still took down multiple jonin before dropping.
Is there anyone else I'm forgetting? Think Sakura's still good at S plain, or would her regen thing increase her to +?
Originally posted by Q99
Ok, so ranks!I'm thinking
Madara Uchiha (Juubi Jinchuuriki) goes at SSS+
Sasuke and Naruto (Six Paths Yin and Six Paths Yang, respectively) each go at SSS.
Kaguya Otsutsuki goes to SSSS
Might Gai (8 Gates) at SSS- (and only that low due to it being a short time thing)
Guy's dad- I'm open to suggestions? He apparently never got past genin but can open 8 gates... his 8th must be massively weaker than Might Gai, but he still took down multiple jonin before dropping.
Is there anyone else I'm forgetting? Think Sakura's still good at S plain, or would her regen thing increase her to +?
My memory is failing me...but...didn't Guy's dad take out 6 of the 7 Swordsmen?
If he did, that makes him S+ in 8-gates because each of the Swordsmen are S- through plain S.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Sasuke was simply so much slower that he couldn't react. Like with Lee in part 1.
Ergo, it didn't keep up.
If you remember how the Sharingan works, it is akin to battle precog and it makes the user see the next move and they react to it.
Even if the person can see the next move, if they cannot react to it, the sharingan no longer works. If the Sharingan worked in this scenario (against super speedsters), then it would predict the next move with enough timing that the sharingan user could react. It can't so it fails in its basic function.
Picture it this way: it is like a helicopter rated for so much cargo. Once the cargo reaches a certain mass, the helicopter can no longer take off. It fails in its basic function. Sure, the rotors are still moving but it isn't doing its intended job.
Originally posted by dadudemon
My memory is failing me...but...didn't Guy's dad take out 6 of the 7 Swordsmen?If he did, that makes him S+ in 8-gates because each of the Swordsmen are S- through plain S.
You mean A rank, right? I think only one or two of them were pegged as S... (Mangetsu and Kisame)
And it looks like only 3 died. The shot of them when Might Dai fought them had 4 known and 3 unknown swordsmen. Presumably he killed 3, and their replacements became the most famous version of the team.
(one of the old team members is Raiga, the anime swordsman who went rogue, so we know he didn't die, so that leaves 3 others)
BloodRain
All we know is Might Dad went 8 gates to take on a half dozen Jonins possibly near Zabuza's level? Not bothered to go back to the chapter. I'd say base Sannin rank.
One big difference, though, is it takes a suicide jutsu to do so. He'd be just as dead against a single jonin or even a single special jonin, since it's his only move to put him in that level.
Originally posted by Q99
You mean A rank, right? I think only one or two of them were pegged as S... (Mangetsu and Kisame)And it looks like only 3 died. The shot of them when Might Dai fought them had 4 known and 3 unknown swordsmen. Presumably he killed 3, and their replacements became the most famous version of the team.
(one of the old team members is Raiga, the anime swordsman who went rogue, so we know he didn't die, so that leaves 3 others)
One big difference, though, is it takes a suicide jutsu to do so. He'd be just as dead against a single jonin or even a single special jonin, since it's his only move to put him in that level.
Okay, in that case, S- or S in gates for Guy's dad.
How many A-ranks does a person have to take out before they can be considered S?
I say 2 at once. 3 for upper S- to lower S.
4 for solid S.
Anything over 4, though, is open to interpretation as some abilities are trump cards (like the billions of explosive tags Origami Lady made).
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixWe've all known this ever since Kaguya was revealed to have the Byakugan.
[QUOTE=14754600]Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]I'd just like to point out that Byakugan officially came before the Sharingan and the Sharingan truly and really did come from the byakugan.So what Kakashi said about the Sharingan is true.
Also, based on how Special K is using the byakugan, it would appear to be a superior eye. After you become so fast and your natural reflexes become so fast, you don't need the powers of the sharingan. We saw that in Minato and Raikage.
What the Sharingan offers is all those special power ups (Susano'o, Amaterasu, etc.). Without those special power-ups, the Sharingan wouldn't be that big of a deal. Just ask Hashirama. 🙂
Not really. These eyes are tools, and their potency is based on the user. Given that Kaguya is like stronger than Madara and the Juubi put together, it's reasonable that her usage of the Byakugan would be uber.
The thing is though, if you're as fast as your opponent, then the Sharingan will give you the edge. Minato & A were usually far faster than everyone else. We saw what happened when they tried to hit someone as fast as or faster than they were. They got b****-slapped.
That's without factoring in the genjutsu prowess, jutsu/movement copying, Izanagi, Izanami, etc. The Sharingan's more versatile, and has the greater potential (MS/EMS).
Okay. Hashirama said that the Uchiha were a stronger clan than the Hyuuga. peaches
Originally posted by NewGuy01
She doesn't have the Rinnegan. Hogoromo outright told us that the eye on her/Madara's forehead is the true Sharingan, not the Rinnegan. The Rinnegan is Hogoromo's technique.After all, Tsukuyomi is a Sharingan-induced Genjutsu.
It is the Rinnegan as well though. Like Zamiel said, the eyes of those trapped in the genjutsu reflected the Rinnegan. So I'd say that it is both the Rinnegan and the Sharingan. Kaguya having all three dojutsu would be fitting.
Originally posted by dadudemon
No it's not. Very very few Uchiha reach that level of Sharingan unlock. They are extremely rare abilities even among the Uchiha.Since the vast majority of them (Uchiha) will never obtain those powers, in general, the byakugan is a superior eye.
Lemme put it this way: an Uchiha who obtained those powers was able to kill all other Uchiha (it is debated as to whether or not he did that by himself) in a single night.
So basically, the Byakugan is better if you're average. The Sharingan's better if you're elite. excellent [/B][/QUOTE]
My post was at the bottom of the page.
Originally posted by Q99
Ok, so ranks!I'm thinking
Madara Uchiha (Juubi Jinchuuriki) goes at SSS+
Sasuke and Naruto (Six Paths Yin and Six Paths Yang, respectively) each go at SSS.
Kaguya Otsutsuki goes to SSSS
Might Gai (8 Gates) at SSS- (and only that low due to it being a short time thing)
Guy's dad- I'm open to suggestions? He apparently never got past genin but can open 8 gates... his 8th must be massively weaker than Might Gai, but he still took down multiple jonin before dropping.
Is there anyone else I'm forgetting? Think Sakura's still good at S plain, or would her regen thing increase her to +?
I think Naruto and Sasuke should be in the same rank as Madara Uchiha (Juubi Jinchuurikii). They weren't overwhelmed by Madara at his strongest, and prior to Madara absorbing the Tree and getting the second Rinnegan, they were solidly more powerful than he was, who in turn was more powerful than Obito.
Dunno about Dai. Didn't see anything from him apart from 8 gates, and we don't know how well he did. I don't think we should rank him.
Hagoromo? Agreed with the rest. May as well change Kaguya to a different letter though. SSSS is just pushing it. 😛 And besides, Kaguya just warped an entire dimension. That is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Q99
Ok, so ranks!I'm thinking
Madara Uchiha (Juubi Jinchuuriki) goes at SSS+
Sasuke and Naruto (Six Paths Yin and Six Paths Yang, respectively) each go at SSS.
Kaguya Otsutsuki goes to SSSS
Might Gai (8 Gates) at SSS- (and only that low due to it being a short time thing)
Guy's dad- I'm open to suggestions? He apparently never got past genin but can open 8 gates... his 8th must be massively weaker than Might Gai, but he still took down multiple jonin before dropping.
Is there anyone else I'm forgetting? Think Sakura's still good at S plain, or would her regen thing increase her to +?
For Hagoromo and Kaguya, the EX or a U rank are still open suggestions.
Agree with Might Gai's rank and Sakura should stay a solid S: she hasn't really done anything with her Genesis Rebirth other than get stabbed.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Ergo, it didn't keep up.If you remember how the Sharingan works, it is akin to battle precog and it makes the user see the next move and they react to it.
Even if the person can see the next move, if they cannot react to it, the sharingan no longer works. If the Sharingan worked in this scenario (against super speedsters), then it would predict the next move with enough timing that the sharingan user could react. It can't so it fails in its basic function.
Picture it this way: it is like a helicopter rated for so much cargo. Once the cargo reaches a certain mass, the helicopter can no longer take off. It fails in its basic function. Sure, the rotors are still moving but it isn't doing its intended job.
No, Sasuke could not keep up.
If they're body has the capacity to do so yes. Such as the case with Sasuke and feral naruto. He was able to precog Naruto just fine, until he got the ome tail cloak. From there, it was shown that he still had the precog, but his body was unable to do anything about it.
So it still does its intended purpose, precog, but the fault falls on the user for not having a body that can do anything about it. It's like blaming the eye for not allowing a legless man escape an attack, even if it showed him exactly where the attack would land.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I think Naruto and Sasuke should be in the same rank as Madara Uchiha (Juubi Jinchuurikii). They weren't overwhelmed by Madara at his strongest, and prior to Madara absorbing the Tree and getting the second Rinnegan, they were solidly more powerful than he was, who in turn was more powerful than Obito.
Hm, second Rinnegan Madara should definitely be differently ranked...
Should maybe one-Rinnegan Madara be SSS with ObitoJinchuuriki, Naruto, and Sasuke (they aren't all the exact same, but general tier ish), and Two Rinnegan Madara be SSS+?
Originally posted by Damborgson
No, Sasuke could not keep up.If they're body has the capacity to do so yes. Such as the case with Sasuke and feral naruto. He was able to precog Naruto just fine, until he got the ome tail cloak. From there, it was shown that he still had the precog, but his body was unable to do anything about it.
So it still does its intended purpose, precog, but the fault falls on the user for not having a body that can do anything about it. It's like blaming the eye for not allowing a legless man escape an attack, even if it showed him exactly where the attack would land.
My response to that is this:
Originally posted by dadudemon
Even if the person can see the next move, if they cannot react to it, the sharingan no longer works. If the Sharingan worked in this scenario (against super speedsters), then it would predict the next move with enough timing that the sharingan user could react. It can't so it fails in its basic function.
If the Sharingan could keep up, it would project the person to an even further degree to give the person enough time to react. It doesn't. It fails in it's primary function, at that point.
Originally posted by Q99
Hm, second Rinnegan Madara should definitely be differently ranked...Should maybe one-Rinnegan Madara be SSS with ObitoJinchuuriki, Naruto, and Sasuke (they aren't all the exact same, but general tier ish), and Two Rinnegan Madara be SSS+?
I'm fine with one Rinnegan Madara being in the same tier as Jinchuurikii Obito, but Six Paths Naruto/Sasuke are much more powerful IMO. Naruto beat up Madara without resorting to his chakra cloak. Then when Madara absorbed the Shinju, those two still beat him up. Sasuke even caught him off guard him twice.
I understand Two Rinnegan Madara being a tier above, or in the same tier, but more powerful.
Also, I think you could bring up a change Madara's regular rankings. I propose SS for ET/EMS Madara, and SS+ for Madara with Sage Mode?
Originally posted by dadudemon
If the Sharingan could keep up, it would project the person to an even further degree to give the person enough time to react. It doesn't. It fails in it's primary function, at that point.
Except the Sharingan has kept up with Naruto (see Tobi reacting to him), as well as Obito & Madara as Jinchuurikiis (see Sasuke reacting to them), all of whom are much faster than A.
Clearly the limitation lies with the user, and not the Sharingan itself. The Sharingan is a tool.
Also, you seem to be focusing on the precog only. estahuh
Originally posted by dadudemon
My response to that is this:If the Sharingan could keep up, it would project the person to an even further degree to give the person enough time to react. It doesn't. It fails in it's primary function, at that point.
That's faulty logic. Being able to see something coming, and being able to react, are very distinct. Imagine if someone was given the perception speed of the flash. They'd be able to dodge nigh anything a human could possibly throw at them. It would all be super slow mow, but they'd never be hit. Now imagine if someone shot a bullet at them. They'd watch in super slow mow, as it nailed them between the eyes. Because they're bodies can't react. It's the same deal more or less.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I'm fine with one Rinnegan Madara being in the same tier as Jinchuurikii Obito, but Six Paths Naruto/Sasuke are much more powerful IMO. Naruto beat up Madara without resorting to his chakra cloak. Then when Madara absorbed the Shinju, those two still beat him up. Sasuke even caught him off guard him twice.I understand Two Rinnegan Madara being a tier above, or in the same tier, but more powerful.
Remember that the Juubi Jinchuurikis have their 'absorb all non-sage chakra' and 'erase-all' things. So the Six Path duo are kinda custom tailored to fight them, they have advantages that apply to everyone *but* those two.
I got the impression that Juubi Madara was still stronger than them individually- remember how he had the edge once he started doing the shadow thing- but two-on-one they were fine.
Also, I think you could bring up a change Madara's regular rankings. I propose SS for ET/EMS Madara, and SS+ for Madara with Sage Mode.
Hm, I could see that.
