The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Q99
Remember that the Juubi Jinchuurikis have their 'absorb all non-sage chakra' and 'erase-all' things. So the Six Path duo are kinda custom tailored to fight them, they have advantages that apply to everyone *but* those two.

I got the impression that Juubi Madara was still stronger than them individually- remember how he had the edge once he started doing the shadow thing- but two-on-one they were fine.

Hm, I could see that.

Naruto should have the same advantages.
Taijutsu works just fine, albeit, incredibly powerful Taijutsu, or a sword, apparently. As does Senjutsu. If Chidori Sharp Spear bifurcating Madara is any indication, sufficiently powerful ninjutsu seems to work too.

Naruto evaded Madara's Limbo clone though.
I agree Madara was stronger than they were individually once he got both Rinnegan. Before that, he barely got any hits in, even when they attacked individually.

Cool. Hopefully other people weigh in.

To me personally, it didn't seem like Madara's power increased too largely between receiving Hashirama's Sage Chakra to becoming the Juubi's Jinjuruki. Other than being able to manipulate GoDamas and an increase in Chakra Reserves, Madara was already on the Six Path's level seemingly.

His power up only became massive when he received his second eye, which is somewhat ironic.

As far as feats go, I agree, there wasn't really much of an upgrade. Madara was PIS-level impressive after he was revived. Once he got the Juubi, he didn't really do much offensively, even after absorbing the remainder of the Shinju.
But Minato said he was more powerful than Obito was as a Juubi Jinchuurikii.

Then Madara gets his second Rinnegan and starts chucking a multitude of meteors, each of which make mountains look like molehills...

As far as feats go, I agree, there wasn't really much of an upgrade. Madara was PIS-level impressive after he was revived. Once he got the Juubi, he didn't really do much offensively, even after absorbing the remainder of the Shinju. But Minato said he was more powerful than Obito was as a Juubi Jinchuurikii.

Yeah, I got the same impression.

As for him being stronger than Obito--It's apparent to me that he was already on par with Juubito before becoming a Jinchuurikii.

Did Obito seem like he was more impressive as the Juubi Jinchuriki than Madara? Or am I biased? mmm

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Did Obito seem like he was more impressive as the Juubi Jinchuriki than Madara? Or am I biased? mmm

Nah, he seemed more adept at it. He was more of a natural, imo.

Tis a shame Obito had to fall to the dark side of the force. He could have been an excellent Jedi Knight had he just come back to the village after Madara healed him.

Edit - By the way, I am not a fan of Obito, at all. You're not being biased.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, I got the same impression.

As for him being stronger than Obito--It's apparent to me that he was already on par with Juubito before becoming a Jinchuurikii.

It's possible. He did say that had it not been for Naruto, he would have taken on Obito to withdraw the Bijuu.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Did Obito seem like he was more impressive as the Juubi Jinchuriki than Madara? Or am I biased? mmm

Barring Madara instantly controlling the transformation, and getting lip service from Minato, yeah, Obito was a better showcase for the transformation, even though Madara was supposed to be much stronger.
Madara's regeneration was better though.

Madara's regeneration is incredible. It also kind makes fighting him seem tedious.

The Juubito fight was cool and I stand by it. /stubborn.

Scale of the various big jutsu

Originally posted by Q99
Scale of the various big jutsu

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
i.imgur.com/RJj6sAC.jpg

Seems reasonable. No concrete numbers or calculations, but it gives a sense of the massively increasing scale of destructive power over the last 200 or so chapters.

The only things off are that the Shinju never destroyed Obito's barrier as he said he'd bring down the barrier; and the size of the Bijuu damas with respect to 6 Tailed Kyuubi's failed Bijuu bomb, so I'm ignoring the 20km thing, even though it's stated to be just an assumption.

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Originally posted by AuraAngel
Madara's regeneration is incredible. It also kind makes fighting him seem tedious.

The Juubito fight was cool and I stand by it. /stubborn.

It was. Though the chapters on Obito and the attempts at saving him was a little too much. IMO, Madara should have revealed his part in Rin's death before Obito got talk no jutsu'd.

Also, Juubito is laem. Ten Tailed Tobi please, or TTT. awesome

Ah, missed that, you clearly beat me to it 🙂

Oh yeah, I remember some of us saying that Hashirama should be bumped up, since he was more powerful and versatile than EMS Madara?

Madara still fought him for about a day, or at least an entire night. Also Hashirama won with a relatively basic gambit indicating that Madara was still able to match him in most respects. So while Hashirama is stronger, I still don't think he's strong enough to warrant an entire rank over Madara.

I believe the argument was that Hashirama had a very slight edge over Madara in direct combat (as shown at VotE), but Hashirama was far more versatile (more Chakra, 25+ Clones, Healing, Medical jutsu, Sealing Gates that can restrain the Juubi, Senjutsu, etc.).

Pre-Rinnegan, Hashirama seemed to have a noticeably large edge over Madara, to me anyway. His abilities were of much more massive scale.

Hashirama is clearly between Eternal Mangekyo Madara and Rinnegan Madara. Stronger than the former, below the latter.

The issue being, he has to be on the same level as one of them 🙂

So which is it, on SS+ with Rinnegan, or on SS with Mangekyo?

Originally posted by Q99
Hashirama is clearly between Eternal Mangekyo Madara and Rinnegan Madara. Stronger than the former, below the latter.

The issue being, he has to be on the same level as one of them 🙂

So which is it, on SS+ with Rinnegan, or on SS with Mangekyo?

He's clearly not on par with the alive Madara who had a Rinnegan and Senjutsu. He's on par with ET Madara though. Above EMS Madara, who I generally view as being in the same tier as ET Madara.

Meh, so no to bumping him?

Originally posted by Astner
I don't see why Madara, with the Rinnegan, is placed above Hashirama. If you've been keeping up with their fight you should be knowing that they're pretty much locked in a standstill.

Originally posted by Q99
Here's a question: Should old-Madara be placed beneath Hashirama? I.e. Hashirama at SS+, non-Rinnegan Madara at SS?

Originally posted by Astner
Yeah, I don't see why not. Hashirama fought Madara and Kyūbi, and won.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He was only shown using Perfect Susano'o for most of their skirmish, and he'd only gotten serious once the Shinju returned.

That said, yeah, Hashirama is a BAMF, to the point that he could be as powerful as, if not more than, Edo Madara.

Hashirama's definitely > EMS Madara, but I don't think he's an entire tier above him. After all, once Kurama was taken out of the picture, they still fought to the point where they both were exhausted.

Sage Mode makes a case for it though.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm also thinking of how much more flexible Hashirama was. Madara was a bit behind in a direct fight (after all, they were equal *after* Hashirama had to deal with Kurama), but Hashirama also can clone swarm, has apparently Tsunade-like healing, and so on...

Plus there is the matter that before the peace treaty, even the Uchiha thought they were losing, in large part due to Hashirama's strength. Madara was the only one who could put up a good fight with him, but overall Hashirama normally seemed to have the edge.

I think I'm going to side with Astner on this one.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, he was more versatile than EMS Madara.
Eh, only reason Kurama lasted as long as he did was because of Susano'o's protection. We saw how easily he was taken out of the battle once Hashirama busted through Susano'o.

Yeah, I'll change my stance as well. I forgot about the Gates he can summon, the ones that could subdue the Ten-Tails.

This is the argument. Right after Q99's most recent rankings list.

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/681

Chapter's out.

We find out how Madara survived VotE.

Spoiler:
He used Izanagi

Also, lol,

Spoiler:
Black Zetsu is Kaguya's child, and he set up everything

Kaguya is still a terrible character. 🙁

Spoiler:
And I still don't get Black Zetsu. He's so different from Hogoromo and Hamura in terms of power, it's ridiculous... Is him being her child supposed to be symbolic rather than literal?

I have a bunch of questions now. How did Madara give Nagato both of his Rinnegan if he blinded one of them with Izanagi? Why would Madara think he created Black Zetsu if he was approached by him prior to his creation? How does the whole Kaguya/Shinju relationship work?

Madara is a ****ing weirdo. "If I eat part of Hashirama's shoulder, I can puke it up later and gain ultimate power!" I don't even know what this about anymore.

That said, the bit about ninja being a story created by black zetsu is pretty cool.