I think people underrate the themes. The ones about cycles is very relevant, obviously. The most relevant I'd say.
The one about hard work is also relevant, though I will note passing things on is another, equally relevant theme so it doesn't have to be the character's hard work alone, it can be parent's hard work to give advantages and such. Buncha people's hard work coming together to accomplish something they couldn't on their own.
I don't think so. I think you're confusing not understanding or not identifying the themes with simply disliking them or finding them tedious.
In my case, I'm well aware of how cycles, tradition and redemption are major themes within the story. I just don't give a shit. Kishi staying consistent with those themes actively weakens his own story because they make it predictable and lacking in tension. If I already know what's going to happen and how it's going to happen, then there's not really much of a story to actually tell.
As well, that Naruto is always right in the end has resulted in there not being any real catalyst for change, which we're already seeing. Naruto hasn't had any real character development to speak of in Shippuden. He was a loud, obnoxious, immature kid who's hopelessly optimistic and sees the best in everyone pre-Shippuden, then immediately after the time-skip we see that he's much quieter, contemplative and mature while still being hopelessly optimistic and seeing the best in everyone. After that, while his powers have grown exponentially and his past and ancestry has been fleshed out, the development of his personality and values have been stagnant for pretty much this entire series.
Originally posted by Tzeentch
I don't think so. I think you're confusing not understanding or not identifying the themes with simply disliking them or finding them tedious.
No, I'm not saying saying people don't understand them, it's just one of the common complaints I see are that X theme isn't focused on enough or was forgotten. If someone says X vanishes and it's still there, well, then it's obviously not a correct observation.
Or, in your case, someone who actively doesn't care saying each new thing is tedious- but, well, you aren't engaged in the story any more, are you? If you don't care, then whether or not you expected something, it won't have impact on you.
At that point I don't think you're necessarily reviewing very objectively, you've distanced yourself from the story too much. Sure, some point earlier on did legitimately lose you, but because of that it's become harder for you to judge later parts as you would parts before that time.
In my case, I'm well aware of how cycles, tradition and redemption are major themes within the story. I just don't give a shit. Kishi staying consistent with those themes actively weakens his own story because they make it predictable and lacking in tension. If I already know what's going to happen and how it's going to happen, then there's not really much of a story to actually tell.
Did you know Sasuke was going to turn revolutionary and decide to be a kage after fighting alongside Naruto?
How much of the story did you really predict and know how was going to happen? Because a lot of this stuff didn't look predictable to me, and I don't remember others predicting it either.
I'd say that, because you aren't engaged in the story, you simply don't care when stuff you didn't predict happens, rather than actually having a good idea in advance what's going to happen.
Also, I think that abandoning the theme this late in order for the shock of the change ... it'd be shocking to be sure, but abandoning the core of a story rarely make a good story in the long run.
Part of your complaints may simply be one of type: Naruto is a story of this type, about these themes. You don't want a story of this type, about these themes. And that's ok! It doesn't mean that the story is poorly done or handle themes badly, it means that it's just not for you.
As well, that Naruto is always right in the end has resulted in there not being any real catalyst for change, which we're already seeing. Naruto hasn't had any real character development to speak of in Shippuden. He was a loud, obnoxious, immature kid who's hopelessly optimistic and sees the best in everyone pre-Shippuden, then immediately after the time-skip we see that he's much quieter, contemplative and mature while still being hopelessly optimistic and seeing the best in everyone. After that, while his powers have grown exponentially and his past and ancestry has been fleshed out, the development of his personality and values have been stagnant for pretty much this entire series.
Naruto's changed a fair amount since Shippuden started. He's had to re-examine his priorities, he had a nervous breakdown at one point, he grew in maturity enough to be able to see through Sakura when she was faking.... his obsession with Sasuke is something that had to, and did, change, as he grew more aware of wider responsibilities. He became someone who could lead. At the beginning of shippuden, he's more mature than he was before but he's still the hothead that jumps in first.
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Well going by the theme Sauske will be redeemed but die? Every redeemed character in the series immediately died afterwards. If you let him live its actually breaking the theme and precedent :3 Ohhh please let him die 😄
This reminds me of poop, pee, farts, buttholes, and nipples.
Originally posted by Q99Oh, absolutely. I'm a jaded **** face who more or less hates the entire series and thrives on the negativity surrounding it, like some sort of inverse, evil clown.
[B]Or, in your case, someone who actively doesn't care saying each new thing is tedious- but, well, you aren't engaged in the story any more, are you? If you don't care, then whether or not you expected something, it won't have impact on you.
At that point I don't think you're necessarily reviewing very objectively, you've distanced yourself from the story too much. Sure, some point earlier on did legitimately lose you, but because of that it's become harder for you to judge later parts as you would parts before that time.Uh. Is that your official prognosis, Doctor Q?
Did you know Sasuke was going to turn revolutionary and decide to be a kage after fighting alongside Naruto?How much of the story did you really predict and know how was going to happen? Because a lot of this stuff didn't look predictable to me, and I don't remember others predicting it either.
Yes. In fact, we've been discussing Sasuke's face-heel turn in this very thread since he jumped into the war. lol
Everything from Obito being talk no jutsu'd into submission and Madara betraying him to Sasuke being an idiot and turning heel wasn't just predicted by me, but has been openly discussed by others in this thread by Aura and others. The only major component of this arc that's truly come out of left field has been Kaguya.
Part of your complaints may simply be one of type: Naruto is a story of this type, about these themes. You don't want a story of this type, about these themes. And that's ok! It doesn't mean that the story is poorly done or handle themes badly, it means that it's just not for you.Errr... yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that I'm not a fan of how the story's progressed. You don't think pointing that out is a bit tautological? Obviously, if I approved of Kishi's writing I wouldn't be criticizing it lol.
Naruto's changed a fair amount since Shippuden started. He's had to re-examine his priorities, he had a nervous breakdown at one point, he grew in maturity enough to be able to see through Sakura when she was faking.... his obsession with Sasuke is something that had to, and did, change, as he grew more aware of wider responsibilities. He became someone who could lead. At the beginning of shippuden, he's more mature than he was before but he's still the hothead that jumps in first.He's re-examined his priorities and found them to be exactly what they were at the start of Shippuden. The only real development he's had is getting over his Sasuke-lurve.