The Official Naruto series Thread

no1 has confirmed it, madara denied it, itachi said contradicted madara and still cudnt explain why madara lost, yondaime contradicted both. the specific purpose of akatsuki is to gain control of the kyuubi, why wud madara need to build akatsuki if he cud already do that?

your completely wrong, the attacks of 1 tail were far less devestating than 4 tails. the attacks of 7 tails with its pure chakra was FAR bigger{making konoha look small in comparison} than the attack of 4 tails with a similar chakra balls. so no, chakra MATTERS. each tail gives more chakra, thats all the kyuubi transformatios of naruto ARE, pure chakra taking the form of the kyuubi so the old analogy does NOT apply since its attacking with chakra alone and not a jutsu. thats why the yin chakra matters.

When did Madara deny it? Madara was there at the fight, Itachi & Yondaime were not.
The fox itself knows Madara, meaning that it most likely was under his control when he fought the First.
Madara's sharingan isn't strong enough to control the Kyuubi currently. That's why he created Akatsuki, to bring his sharingan back to full power.

We're talking about the 9 tails at its strongest my friend 313. The 7 tails had much more chakra to pour into the ball, true, but when it gets to 9 tails, it won't be pouring half or more of its full chakra level into one attack. If it does, sure, losing half its chakra does matter, if not (which is the most likely case), it doesn't matter to the 9 tails.

I don't get this half of chakra type of stuff.

It's not half, it type.

The Nine Tailed fox has an infinite amount of chakra. It's just his two chakra types were split in to. Half of infinity is still infinity.

There are two forms of chakra: Spiritual and Physical.

Which one did Naruto get sealed in him? I thought it was physical?

And the death god got the spiritual.

That's what I thought.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't get this half of chakra type of stuff.

It's not half, it type.

The Nine Tailed fox has an infinite amount of chakra. It's just his two chakra types were split in to. Half of infinity is still infinity.

There are two forms of chakra: Spiritual and Physical.

Which one did Naruto get sealed in him? I thought it was physical?

And the death god got the spiritual.

That's what I thought.

Meh, I didn't either, just saw people typing halved chakra, so. But the whole Yin being sealed and Yang given to Naruto does kind of imply halved chakra level.

Infinite at least according to a normal ninja's comprehension imo, it's probably not truly infinite, just insanely high.

I thought chakra was just chakra. Spiritual Energy mixing with Physical energy to give Chakra.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh, I didn't either, just saw people typing halved chakra, so. But the whole Yin being sealed and Yang given to Naruto does kind of imply halved chakra level.

Infinite at least according to a normal ninja's comprehension imo, it's probably not truly infinite, just insanely high.

I thought chakra was just chakra. Spiritual Energy mixing with Physical energy to give Chakra.

I was thinking that infinite meant infinite, meaning, if Kyuubi fought another demon with just as much power, they would fight for an eternity.

And, yes, having more physical chakra gives one more physical strength. When Naruto got the chakra power amp from the Kyuubi, he gets a strength amp...and this is no tails...just the Chakra.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I was thinking that infinite meant infinite, meaning, if Kyuubi fought another demon with just as much power, they would fight for an eternity.

And, yes, having more physical chakra gives one more physical strength. When Naruto got the chakra power amp from the Kyuubi, he gets a strength amp...and this is no tails...just the Chakra.

If it is infinite, the Akatsuki would most likely not be able to seal it into their statue, considering they seal the chakra imo. They wouldn't be able to seal something that has no limit.

I don't think there's such a thing as physical chakra per se, physical energy, sure, but not physical chakra. The only types of chakra I know of are normal, tailed beast & elemental/elemental affinity chakra.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If it is infinite, the Akatsuki would most likely not be able to seal it into their statue, considering they seal the chakra imo. They wouldn't be able to seal something that has no limit.

I don't think there's such a thing as physical chakra per se, physical energy, sure, but not physical chakra. The only types of chakra I know of are normal, tailed beast & elemental/elemental affinity chakra.

No, you're applying traits to chakra that don't exist.

You do realize that black holes are infinitly dense, right? A given amount of a matter and energy is compressed to a size of nothing. Density is mass divided by volume.

For all we know, that's a special chakra statue (which it is) that can contain and suspend each tailed best's chakra in an infinitely small space for each compartment. It could also be that the energy they draw from is zero-point energy, meaning, it is virtually infinite. All we know is that they (tailed beasts) are ancient, Gods exist, and Ninjas tap into Chakra.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
When did Madara deny it? Madara was there at the fight, Itachi & Yondaime were not.
The fox itself knows Madara, meaning that it most likely was under his control when he fought the First.
Madara's sharingan isn't strong enough to control the Kyuubi currently. That's why he created Akatsuki, to bring his sharingan back to full power.

We're talking about the 9 tails at its strongest my friend 313. The 7 tails had much more chakra to pour into the ball, true, but when it gets to 9 tails, it won't be pouring half or more of its full chakra level into one attack. If it does, sure, losing half its chakra does matter, if not (which is the most likely case), it doesn't matter to the 9 tails.

havent you been reading the manga? madara CLEARLY told sasuke that no1 can control the kyuubi and he had nothing to do with it attacking konoha like people beleive, that it is a force of nature. and that konoha was gonna use that as an excuse to destroy the uchiha clan {im a lil hazy}. that was not an actual fight, that was a memory/claim drawn by kishimoto. the fox knows madara but that doesnt mean madara can control it.

he didnt create akatsuki to just get his sharingan to full power{and that hasnt really been explained yet anyway} the major function of akatsuki is to capture the kyuubi, for which there wud be no reason if madara cud fully control it to begin with.

but thats the thing, the 9 tails at its strongest hasnt been SEEN yet, the 8 tails with HALF ITS CHAKRA MISSING has been seen.

and i have clearly demonstrated how chakra=power for the kyuubi. what ur saying honestly makes no sense to me right now.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't get this half of chakra type of stuff.

It's not half, it type.

The Nine Tailed fox has an infinite amount of chakra. It's just his two chakra types were split in to. Half of infinity is still infinity.

There are two forms of chakra: Spiritual and Physical.

Which one did Naruto get sealed in him? I thought it was physical?

And the death god got the spiritual.

That's what I thought.

no, its HALF. again, in three seperate places outside, yondaime sealing the different chakra, the reletionship of the yin and yang chakra has been explained. first by urochimaru, in the flashback when he is creating a new technique, when he explains how he wants to be like the first person who mixed yin and yang{probably referring to rikoudo} an created a new phenomenon altogether{jutsus}, then again by kakashi, when he is explaining nature vs form manipulation to naruto when naruto is starting to realise he has wind affinity, where he says that all complex jutsus come from mixing yin and yang chakra. also, in the anime version, when 4 tails first releases its chakra before it forms a ball, it is in the form of blue and red balls. and ofcourse, jiraya also talks to the small toad he summons before fighting pain and discussed that minato didnt do things without a reason, and there was probably a reason why he left his son only the yang chakra of the kyuubi. and ofcourse, minato himself says he needs it to defeat madara. who minato CUDNT defeat {unlike what madara claimed to sasuke} despite his best efforts.

who says nine tails has an infinite amoung of chakra???? r u trying to be a sarcastic dick on purpose dadudemon????

the two types of chakra r not spiritual and physical. its yin and yang, and they can be complexely combined into force/nature/kekai genkai/other unique abilities.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, its HALF. again, in three seperate places outside, yondaime sealing the different chakra, the reletionship of the yin and yang chakra has been explained. first by urochimaru, in the flashback when he is creating a new technique, when he explains how he wants to be like the first person who mixed yin and yang{probably referring to rikoudo} an created a new phenomenon altogether{jutsus}, then again by kakashi, when he is explaining nature vs form manipulation to naruto when naruto is starting to realise he has wind affinity, where he says that all complex jutsus come from mixing yin and yang chakra. also, in the anime version, when 4 tails first releases its chakra before it forms a ball, it is in the form of blue and red balls. and ofcourse, jiraya also talks to the small toad he summons before fighting pain and discussed that minato didnt do things without a reason, and there was probably a reason why he left his son only the yang chakra of the kyuubi. and ofcourse, minato himself says he needs it to defeat madara. who minato CUDNT defeat {unlike what madara claimed to sasuke} despite his best efforts.

who says nine tails has an infinite amoung of chakra???? r u trying to be a sarcastic dick on purpose dadudemon????

the two types of chakra r not spiritual and physical. its yin and yang, and they can be complexely combined into force/nature/kekai genkai/other unique abilities.

For the Demon fox, yes, it's Yin and Yang. For a ninja, it's physical and spiritual. Then the third would be sage chakra.

But, yes, it is near limitless...I thought it was infinite. I have no reference as I can't think of any for infinite.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
havent you been reading the manga? madara CLEARLY told sasuke that no1 can control the kyuubi and he had nothing to do with it attacking konoha like people beleive, that it is a force of nature. and that konoha was gonna use that as an excuse to destroy the uchiha clan {im a lil hazy}. that was not an actual fight, that was a memory/claim drawn by kishimoto. the fox knows madara but that doesnt mean madara can control it.

he didnt create akatsuki to just get his sharingan to full power{and that hasnt really been explained yet anyway} the major function of akatsuki is to capture the kyuubi, for which there wud be no reason if madara cud fully control it to begin with.

but thats the thing, the 9 tails at its strongest hasnt been SEEN yet, the 8 tails with HALF ITS CHAKRA MISSING has been seen.

and i have clearly demonstrated how chakra=power for the kyuubi. what ur saying honestly makes no sense to me right now.

I could ask you the same.
Madara told Sasuke that he had nothing to do with the attack on Konoha. Earlier he states that the Uchiha's powers are the only thing that can control the Kyuubi. Need scans? Sasuke also asks Itachi if blindness is the price to pay for gaining the power to control the Kyuubi, to which Itachi agrees.
Whether he used the demon fox to attack Konoha16 years ago, that's not known.
But what's almost certain is that Madara did use the Kyuubi against Hashirama, he has the power to control it, he wanted revenge, why wouldn't he go all out.

Everyone within the Akatsuki has their own goals. Madara's (at least according to what he states to Nagato) is to regain the power of his sharingan. That's what his ultimate goal is.
Right now, yes, their task is to get the Kyuubi, and the Hachibi (I think that's what the 8 tails is called)
Damn, the 8 tails was a great character.

That's probably because you are not even trying to consider what you think is wrong.
In a nutshell, the Kyuubi's (at 9) most intense attack would only be different if it used up more than half its chakra for the attack. If it didn't use up half its chakra in a single attack, it wouldn't matter whether it had all its chakra or half. The attack would still have the same intensity.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, you're applying traits to chakra that don't exist.

You do realize that black holes are infinitly dense, right? A given amount of a matter and energy is compressed to a size of nothing. Density is mass divided by volume.

For all we know, that's a special chakra statue (which it is) that can contain and suspend each tailed best's chakra in an infinitely small space for each compartment. It could also be that the energy they draw from is zero-point energy, meaning, it is virtually infinite. All we know is that they (tailed beasts) are ancient, Gods exist, and Ninjas tap into Chakra.

If it's infinite as you say, it has no limit. That, or it isn't infinite in the first place.

I guess that the statue could have what you described. Makes some sense, given how they are able to store all that chakra.

EDIT: Damn, meant to copypaste this into my first post.

Originally posted by dadudemon
For the Demon fox, yes, it's Yin and Yang. For a ninja, it's physical and spiritual. Then the third would be sage chakra.

But, yes, it is near limitless...I thought it was infinite. I have no reference as I can't think of any for infinite.

nope. ive already given examples. physical and spiritual are both composed of yin/yang. sage is drawing from outside yourself as opposed to generating internally, it still probably yin/yang since thats the nature of chakra.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I could ask you the same.
Madara told Sasuke that he had nothing to do with the attack on Konoha. Earlier he states that the Uchiha's powers are the only thing that can control the Kyuubi. Need scans? Sasuke also asks Itachi if blindness is the price to pay for gaining the power to control the Kyuubi, to which Itachi agrees.
Whether he used the demon fox to attack Konoha16 years ago, that's not known.
But what's almost certain is that Madara did use the Kyuubi against Hashirama, he has the power to control it, he wanted revenge, why wouldn't he go all out.

Everyone within the Akatsuki has their own goals. Madara's (at least according to what he states to Nagato) is to regain the power of his sharingan. That's what his ultimate goal is.
Right now, yes, their task is to get the Kyuubi, and the Hachibi (I think that's what the 8 tails is called)
Damn, the 8 tails was a great character.

That's probably because you are not even trying to consider what you think is wrong.
In a nutshell, the Kyuubi's (at 9) most intense attack would only be different if it used up more than half its chakra for the attack. If it didn't use up half its chakra in a single attack, it wouldn't matter whether it had all its chakra or half. The attack would still have the same intensity.

madara never claimed to use it i think. again, madara always said he lept secrets from itachi, im not saying sharingan cant have power over the kyuubi, im saying if it did, probably, it wasnt enough to control it, and madara says he has nothing to do with the kyuuubi.

no, you are getting that from wikipedia. all he says was he was going to get back HIS power/uchiha madara's power, it isnt specifically stated that its the sharingan. it wud make sense if madara considered the kyuubi to be HIS.

sigh, you are thinking of the kyuubi as a NINJA. in all likeness it was just a being made out of pure chakra. you see, unlike shinobi who have specific amounts of total chakra in themselves and use them for SPECIFIC jutsus and the strength of the jutsu is dependant on the type and not the chakra{since you only need a specified amount of chakra to pull it off, adding or subtracting doesnt make sense nor adds or takes from the power of the jutsu} the KYUUBI, is a being who attacks with the POTENCY if its near limitless reserve, as opposed to jutsus. NOT ONLY wud the kyuubi gain a hell of a lot more to its chakra reserve if it got the yin chakra, but the POTENCY of the chakra wud also be increases with gaining the other half of its chakra/power. this is easily seen by the difference in destructive power of the chakra balls of the 4 and the 7 tails. simply put, its POWER increases as it gains more of its chakra.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
sigh, you are thinking of the kyuubi as a NINJA. in all likeness it was just a being made out of pure chakra. you see, unlike shinobi who have specific amounts of total chakra in themselves and use them for SPECIFIC jutsus and the strength of the jutsu is dependant on the type and not the chakra{since you only need a specified amount of chakra to pull it off, adding or subtracting doesnt make sense nor adds or takes from the power of the jutsu} the KYUUBI, is a being who attacks with the POTENCY if its near limitless reserve, as opposed to jutsus. NOT ONLY wud the kyuubi gain a hell of a lot more to its chakra reserve if it got the yin chakra, but the POTENCY of the chakra wud also be increases with gaining the other half of its chakra/power. this is easily seen by the difference in destructive power of the chakra balls of the 4 and the 7 tails. simply put, its POWER increases as it gains more of its chakra.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
nope. ive already given examples. physical and spiritual are both composed of yin/yang. sage is drawing from outside yourself as opposed to generating internally, it still probably yin/yang since thats the nature of chakra.

The picture from the manga shows it, translated, as physical and spiritual.

I win.

Isn't Yin/Yang the properties of chakra while Spiritual and Physical are what make the attacks themselves? Not that I remember what is said about them just wondering.

Originally posted by Kento
Isn't Yin/Yang the properties of chakra while Spiritual and Physical are what make the attacks themselves? Not that I remember what is said about them just wondering.

Here's that picture.

I don't remember where in the manga that is. I can think of a dozen places that that picture would show up.

Do those characters say physical and spiritual or yin and yang? Because it looks like yin/yang symbol but if it says spiritual and physical then perhaps yin/yang and spiritual/physical are the same. *shrugs*

ok so its not 2 different types of chacara, its physical strength and spiritual energy mixed together that makes the chacra, and from what i can tell the fourth only sealed half its total power not its total chacra since it wouldnt really matter if he got rid of half the chacra cuz its such a huge amount, but if he sealed away half hof his total power his attacks wouldnt be as powerful. As for the yin and yang thing i think thats just to give them names i dont think its significant.

Another theory...Im not completey convinced that the fourth is dead, he might be alive with the other half of the kyuubi inside him, though i kind of doubt it just something to think about