Yea, even in his prime- as he was during the series, I don't think he'd do as well as Sage Jiraiya.
When Pain confronted the Hokage, it was pre-city smash, so it'd be with Deva at full power from the start, all six working together, so there wouldn't be any taking them apart before Deva charged like Naruto did. 3rd at his prime is going to be somewhat stronger than Sage Jiraiya with his greater jutsu knowledge, but I'm still not sure he could've won.
Originally posted by NemeBrogod realm one paneled konoha. 😐
I think the First or Third would have straight kicked his ass at the start, negating any need to protect the villagers. 😐
the god realm blitz is too hax: toss him in, while he's in the air the others go to sleep, then he rapes with the big attack.
i believe his technique is not gravity, it' more like the force (minus the ability to levitate things or all that other crap, just force pull.push at different levels)
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So letting an enemy level your whole village and being knocked into a comma trying to keep eveyone alive(which in the end wasn't needed) counts as proof?(sarcasm)I guess Tsunade is a more experienced leader so it would make sense. Wonder how Sasuke hasn't ended up on the S-rank list and how Naruto(despite all he did) is still a genin.
Here's the catch: No other Kage, at that time, would have been able to save so many people from their own village, and survive. In that aspect, she was the best Kage.
Any other village would have been flattened with absurd amounts of death. Tsunade saved most of the village.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Ultimately what Tsunade did mattered very, very little...
True, but, that doesn't change anything I've stated about Tsunade.
Originally posted by King Kandy
if Pein hadn't given up, they would have ultimately died anyway, and if he still gave up they would have come back anyway.
How would they have ultimately died when Tsunade saved them? 😐
Originally posted by King Kandy
Ultimately what Tsunade did mattered very, very little... if Pein hadn't given up, they would have ultimately died anyway, and if he still gave up they would have come back anyway.
If Tsunade hadn't done that, they might not have been in a position to make Pain give up.
Would Naruto even try if there were thousands of casualties instead of a few? He was hesitant as it was, with just Kakashi and Shizune dead and Hinata wounded out of the people he was close to.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Yes, I think he'd try even harder in fact. Whether or not he'd have his mind clear enough to talk-no-jutsu Nagato at the end is unknown.
He'd try and win, but with Sakura, Shikamaru, etc. gone I don't see him trying talk-no-jutsu. Odds of going full Kyuubi seem high.
He also wouldn't have the information on the Pain bodies in the fight which all came through Katsuyu, like the gravity recharge time, which one absorbs chakra, or even that the real Pain isn't there to begin with. So even if he won, he might not finish things.
If he tried to kill Nagato, Nagato was prepared to fight him to the end for his goal, but when he tried to talk Nagato was off guard and thought it was foolish. If he had came to Nagato and Konan full of rage then he would have died, and probably Nagato as well as neither were in good fighting condition. Nagato was obviously hoping he'd be able to end it easily with his chakra rod, but when that didn't work he didn't have much to do but listen.
Originally posted by King Kandy
As in, Pein would have captured Naruto and they all would have been lost because akatsuki would have completed it's goal.
AHA!
I suspected that's what you were talking about.
I know it as the moon-eye technique or infinite tsukuyomi.
From what I understand, Tsukuyomi is not the same thing as the Infinite Tsukuyomi as the latter is not torture but is a way to bring about peace through THE ultimate genjutsu technique. So, that's why I was confused.
I thought you were saying that Pain had some sort of mass Tsukuyomi technique and I was like, "WTF? no! He probably means the moon-eye crap." 😆
Nah, I think they are the same technique except one is applied on the mass scale. Just because people have used Tsukuyomi for torture only by no means shows that that's all it can be used for. It puts someone in a world where you are omnipotent and time is slowed... there are lots of uses for such a thing besides torture.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Nah, I think they are the same technique except one is applied on the mass scale. Just because people have used Tsukuyomi for torture only by no means shows that that's all it can be used for. It puts someone in a world where you are omnipotent and time is slowed... there are lots of uses for such a thing besides torture.
Do you have evidence for that being something other than torture? I don't. I searched, and couldn't find.
pwned.
Originally posted by King Kandy
???That's what the jutsu does-- put you in a world controlled by the user. It's been used offensively, but the way it's been used doesn't relate to the actual power it has.
Originally posted by Q99
When Itachi genjutsued Sasuke as a kid, didn't he merely show visions of the fight? That was effectively torturous psychologically, but there wasn't any pain involved.
I still see no proof that it isn't solely an offensive tool...even if the end result is to defend against something...it's still an offiensive weapon used to torture the person. It wasn't used in any other way, it was never said to be usable in any other way. Beyond torture, it is speculation.
We got on this discussion because KK said the tech was just that...not the moon-eye plan/infinite Tsukuyomi.