The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Kento
What part of those were lies.

Itachi wanted Sasuke to become stronger a completely different reason than he listed.

I remember something about what Itachi said about Madara's roll (I'm hungry, lol) being wrong. I don't think Madara actually lifted a finger and Itachi made it seem like they killed the clan, together. I don't remember what exactly was going on with that, but I do remember there beign a disparity with what Itachi said about Madara's roll. There are other lies that Itachi gave. I could actually go down their conversation and list all of those, if you'd like.

Originally posted by Kento
As for the other lies, not telling Sasuke that he loved him, and not telling Sasuke that the 'beloved' Uchiha clan were about to destroy everything doesn't discredit the Uchiha story.

Sure does. You have no idea what Itachi said was truth or lies. From what we DO know, Madara was the first to get MS and the first to get EMS. None are listed or discussed as getting EMS other than Madara, and Itachi called Madara immortal and invincible twice, in his talk to Sasuke. Tells us that Madara MAY have gotten immortality (but he can still be injured...but, left unharmed, would live for almost forever.) It makes much more sense that Oro wanted those eyes, but I doubt the EMS would have transferred. Maybe that's why Oro was working on by getting Sasuke's body?

Anyway, Itachi had something to gain by telling Sasuke that brothers have fought for ages to get each other's eyes. He was trying to convince Sasuke that he was after him. He wanted to keep up the facade.

They were to protect him, and to keep him from doing what he's doing now.

Originally posted by Kento
Really? Because the only thing about the Uchiha that we can confirm of Madara's was a lie. And Madara has been telling half truths or lies just about every time he appears. To manipulate everybody to doing what he wants.

Really?

List them.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Really?

List them.

He's manipulating Sasuke by telling Sasuke what he wants to hear.

His plans for Sasuke.

Kyuubi's attack.

His goal. He told Naruto one thing, and then told the Kage's another iirc. Even if both are his goals he's only telling half of it to people. And he's not telling Sasuke any of it.

The things that can't be proven are him taking or being given his brothers eyes, and why the Uchiha abandoned him.

As for Madara and Itachi taking out the Uchiha. Both Itachi and Madara say they both did it. Itachi just gives a name because Sasuke didn't think Itachi could do it a lone, and then Madara talks about how Itachi came to him to ask him to help kill the Uchiha for half of his revenge in exchange for leaving Konoha alone.

Question.

Narutopedia tells me this.

Though his puppet body is in Kankurō's possession, Sasori was later one of the five people resurrected by Kabuto Yakushi via the Summoning: Impure World Resurrection, as a demonstration of power to Madara.

What does the resurrection entail? Did the revived people do anything or retain their personalities?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Question.

Narutopedia tells me this.

What does the resurrection entail? Did the revived people do anything or retain their personalities?

Yeah but then Orrochimaru put those things in them that made them mindless slaves.
Just wondering if Kabuto did the same or if the five guys he resurrected actually were in control of themselves and talked.

Originally posted by Kento
It's the same resurrection that the First Hokage and Second Hokage got against the Third. They still retain their personalities, and memories because it's their spirits just not their real bodies.

If it isn't their real body, I wonder how they get their Kekkei Genkai's. Seeing as KG are genetic.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Elder Brother: The eye patterns are without a doubt spirals, but I believe that was just a stylistic choice. Even if it wasn't, it's abilities were probably similar if not identical to rinnegan, perhaps with only the most rudimentary sharingan traits.

I do believe that he had the rinnegan, and just the rinnegan, myself. Too much evidence to support it, nothing really to deny it. Also I noticed it never says that the two brothers are actually the sages children... since he was a monk, he shouldn't have had children in the first place. Even so, it seems like they were given the traits they "inherited" from him.

I think it is. The way Shiki Fujin works is, it takes from both sides into it's belly. The way I see it, the fourth was doing that, but he "subverted" the chakra with the other sealing technique, and got half into Naruto. Shiki Fujin is very awkward for biju containment, and I imagine that was not it's intended use. The methods of the other nations, which seal the totality of the biju and don't require sacrifice, are much better.

I'd go with the Elder Brother's eyes being close to the Rinnegan with rudimentary Sharingan traits ("Close but no cigar"😉. When the Rinnegan was first revealed, I believe Kishi drew it just like it was now. He doesn't seem the type to use stylistic drawings for this sort of stuff.
While it's true he only draws the Sage's outline, and that no one knows what he or the two brothers look like, Kishi has used the same style for the Sage more than once.

Wait, so you also believe that the Shiki Fuujin seal is on Naruto?
Because, I came up with an explanation a few pages back, and the only holes I can see with it are:

a) The Shiki Fuujin is not on Naruto. Even though there is a spiral, it looks slightly different from the one on Sarutobi.

b) The Eight Trigrams Sealing Style acts as a regulator while the Shiki Fuujin seal holds back the Fox's chakra. This doesn't make sense, as Jiraiya mentions that ETSS method allows the Fox's chakra to slip out from in between the two 4 Element seals.

Also, what do you make of these two pages?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/439/11/
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-439/page011.html

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/439/14/
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-439/page014.html
There's one seal on Naruto, and another seal that is in front of the Fox's "Cage".

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If it isn't their real body, I wonder how they get their Kekkei Genkai's. Seeing as KG are genetic.

Originally posted by Kento
Something that will never be explained.

That's Kishimoto for you.

Basically, all a kekkai genkai is, is it provides a way to manipulate chakra in ways not a natural combination. As explained, things are either form, nature, or "Yin and Yang" manipulation of chakra. Anything that has the same chakra as a kekkai genkai user, has the same abilities (this is also why the pein bodies have rinnegan).

Originally posted by Kento
He admitted to manipulating Nagato, and no doubt lied to him.

That is not lying, though. That's manipulation. Nagato was hardly an idiot, anyway.

Originally posted by Kento
He's manipulating Sasuke by telling Sasuke what he wants to hear.

That's not lying though, that's phrasing truths in an optimal way.

Originally posted by Kento
His plans for Sasuke.

Have been very forthcoming.

Originally posted by Kento
Kyuubi's attack.

Still nothing conclusive about that. Madara could be telling the truth. It might have been a coincidence. (Which one, the first or second attack? If the first, he admitted to that. If the second, we don't have conclusive evidence for or against: just hearsay.)

Originally posted by Kento
His goal. He told Naruto one thing, and then told the Kage's another iirc. Even if both are his goals he's only telling half of it to people. And he's not telling Sasuke any of it.

Dude, that's absurd to think that Sasuke doesn't know about the announcement to all of the Kage. The whole of the ninja world is buzzing about that.

Originally posted by Kento
The things that can't be proven are him taking or being given his brothers eyes, and why the Uchiha abandoned him.

We just have to take his word on it. It fits with some of the partial truths that we have, already. (Such as the great battle between Madara and Hirashima.)

Originally posted by Kento
As for Madara and Itachi taking out the Uchiha. Both Itachi and Madara say they both did it. Itachi just gives a name because Sasuke didn't think Itachi could do it a lone, and then Madara talks about how Itachi came to him to ask him to help kill the Uchiha for half of his revenge in exchange for leaving Konoha alone.

We have a disparity, then.

Madara said that Itachi killed the entire clan. But, he helped Itachi in some way, but we don't know how. Maybe advice? Maybe training him?

Dunno, but Madara said that Itachi killed the entire clan.

In other words, Madara lied about very things, if at all. The worst he did was not divulge all of the truth at once, which would be silly as he has to protect himself and his own interests...he's still a shinobi, after all.

In other words, we have lots of lies from Itachi, and little to no lies from Madara...basically, what I said earlier.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Still nothing conclusive about that. Madara could be telling the truth. It might have been a coincidence. (Which one, the first or second attack? If the first, he admitted to that. If the second, we don't have conclusive evidence for or against: just hearsay.)

Originally posted by Kento
😬 You're really going to say that Itachi and Minato were both lying?

We don't have anything conclusive: only speculation from both Itachi and Minato. They both think he was behind it. Madara says he wasn't. Either Madara is lying or he's not, but we don't have any proof of that. It could be something else that neither you nor I know about yet.

So, we don't know about it being a lie or something else.

Regardless, if that's the only lie you can pin on Madara...

Edit - Also, a few of you were arguing, many months ago, about whether or not Madara killed his brother.

I'd say that's pretty conclusive.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That is not lying, though. That's manipulation. Nagato was hardly an idiot, anyway.

Manipulation and deception typically go hand in hand, especially when we know that Madara said that he had to use the darkness in Nagato's heart.
Deception typically involves lies or half-truths.

Ergo, Madara must have used lies or half-truths 313

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not lying though, that's phrasing truths in an optimal way.

Because half-truths are the truth amirite?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Have been very forthcoming.

and deceptive.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Still nothing conclusive about that. Madara could be telling the truth. It might have been a coincidence. (Which one, the first or second attack? If the first, he admitted to that. If the second, we don't have conclusive evidence for or against: just hearsay.)

Second attack.
While I agree with your reasoning, unless Minato has no qualms about lying to his own son, I'd say Madara did summon the Fox.

http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/Naruto/440/008.jpg

Doesn't sound at all like speculation to me.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Dude, that's absurd to think that Sasuke doesn't know about the announcement to all of the Kage. The whole of the ninja world is buzzing about that.

It's not like they have a Ninja version of the New York Times, or at least, one that Sasuke can access from Akatsuki's hideout.
Also, Madara's kept Sasuke sheltered, and we don't really know if he does know. As far as we can tell, he doesn't.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Dunno, but Madara said that Itachi killed the entire clan.

Cue in: Deception.

😆 I was thinking all of that just gave up on it though.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Edit - Also, a few of you were arguing, many months ago, about whether or not Madara killed his brother.

I'd say that's pretty conclusive.

Says he helped the night of the Uchiha Massacre, then says Itachi killed the whole clan.

And now I see he said he killed his own brother, but says his brother willingly gave his eyes.

I was under the impression he was saying, "My brother let me kill him for the good of the clan."

Probable....

Originally posted by Q99
I was under the impression he was saying, "My brother let me kill him for the good of the clan."

That's what he said at first. Then he says he killed him. Also, did his friend allow himself to be killed for the good of the clan 😬? Because Madara mentions killing him as well as his brother.

For EMS, only taking your brother's eyes is needed (which Madara says he did), not their death. Unless Izuna suffered from brain damage or excessive blood loss, he shouldn't have died from that event. And apparently he didn't since he was shown smiling when Madara says that Izuna let Madara take his eyes.

Well would you want to live without any eyes while in the middle of a large war? Wonder if he could've taken another members eyes to see if he wasn't killed....

For some reason, the possibility of taking someone's eyes without killing them is never brought up.