Originally posted by King KandyWell there isn't any proof that Kyuubi is stronger than Hachibi by much. And wasn't it said a tailed-beast with a host is stronger? And a host and beast working together would probably be stronger than that.
Killer Bee even implied that if he could use full power in that realm, he could have just plain kicked it's ass.
Sasuke should just die now, at this rate, Naruto will reach DBZ level before he does and will probably hold back against Sasuke being that his bromance with Sasuke is such a big part of the story.
Sasuke should have just been spared from the humilatation and power nerfing at this point after Itachi. He doesn't deserve this crap.
Naruto with full control of the kyuubi is invinvble and even Sasuke with the EMS would not be enough because Bee showed you can cancel out MS techniqes with ease. EMS IMO has shown nothing that proves to be would increase Sasuke's power and skills to Kyuubi level IMO especially in speed and taijutsu.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Why is the Kyuubi being a weak *****?Flatten mountains with a swipe of its tail indeed.
a) Technically, Kyuubi's more or less at half-strength, since only half of its chakra is sealed inside Naruto.
b) This is going on inside Naruto's head/soul. I don't think it's how an actual battle would be in the physical world.
Bee keeps talking about hatred and such, so meh.
c) The mountain thing was probably just hyperbole.
Originally posted by Q99
The Viz translation also takes a looser tact.
Screw Viz 313
Originally posted by Q99
Still, Asuma's very all-around good and Kurenai's supposed to be the absolute best at genjutsu as well as being solid in other areas. In another two years I could picture them at Kakashi level pretty easily (judging by the stat book, Asuma's above pre-implant Kabuto, and we know how they talk him up).Of course, the main thing he's lacking next to the S-classes is a trump card, like a kekkei genkai or uber chakra or even the gates. He's just all around pretty awesome.
True, Asuma's strong. I'm thinking he can use Katon jutsus along with his Wind knives.
People tend to underestimate Kurenai as well, since she got the short end of the stick in her only fight.
Without hax abilities like those you mentioned, I doubt they'd reach Kakashi's current level in 5 years. Kakashi's supposedly a guy who knows more than 1000 jutsus, which gives him an incredible amount of versatility in addition to his Sharingan & MS. For all we know, he could use all 5 elements because of the Sharingan, though I only remember him using 3.
The only reason he's not well into Kage-level in my book, is due to his relatively mediocre chakra capacity.
Originally posted by Q99
Yea.Hmm... I'd put the Legendary Trio and most actual Kage at S+, Kakashi at S with most of the Akatsuki, Gai at S-, Asuma and Kurenai at A+, the father Jonin at A (excepting Hinata's, who I think is also A+), Ibiki and Anko and most other special at A- as well as Sakura...
IMO, Tsunade should probably be at S, while Orochimaru & Jiraiya should be in S+, along with 1-4 Hokages, Nagato, Itachi, Raikage, Bee, Naruto & Sasuke. I agree with the rest.
Originally posted by killermover
Naruto with full control of the kyuubi is invinvble and even Sasuke with the EMS would not be enough because Bee showed you can cancel out MS techniqes with ease. EMS IMO has shown nothing that proves to be would increase Sasuke's power and skills to Kyuubi level IMO especially in speed and taijutsu.
Hachibi got owned by Amaterasu. 😐 It was only due to Bee's cunning that both survived in the first place.
Kishi will still find a way for Sasuke to challenge Naruto. We have no idea what the EMS can do, but it can control the Kyuubi like a pet apparently.
Then there's Susano'o, which could gain the mirror and sword in the near future, to make it even more broken.
Naruto could have WTFPWND Sasuke when they last 'fought'. Yet Kishi made Naruto look like a pus** and say that he couldn't beat a nearly blind Sasuke. 😐
Originally posted by Kento
Well there isn't any proof that Kyuubi is stronger than Hachibi by much. And wasn't it said a tailed-beast with a host is stronger? And a host and beast working together would probably be stronger than that.
That (tailed beasts being stronger with a host) was only the case for Tailed Beasts without any proper intelligence, like the Sanbi, iirc.
Also, will Kyuubi work with Naruto in the first place? Naruto's only doing this to control the power, not the beast itself.
I have a question about the whole fight for dominance thing. If the hachibi was apparently as violent as the kyuubi before Bee's training and is now a mellow shell of its former glory, then what will become of the kyuubi?
Another more general question I have is, why can't Naruto just be consumed by the hate and lose to the fox? C'mon, that sounds like fun...doesn't it.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Naruto was still recovering from hyperventilating since he snuck away from Yamato. Also the poison he suffered, he wouldn't be winning any fight.Pain with most of his chakra can level Konoha, I'm sure the a tail can destroy a mountain.
He never knew about the poison though.
As for hyperventilating, I'm pretty sure he recovered. He was able to enter Sage mode previously.
It was mentioned right at the beginning of the series. Could very well be hyperbole.
It can destroy mountains easily; just not with one tail. Until we actually see it flattening a mountain with a tail, I say it's hyperbole.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True, Asuma's strong. I'm thinking he can use Katon jutsus along with his Wind knives.
People tend to underestimate Kurenai as well, since she got the short end of the stick in her only fight.
Remember the ash attack he used against Hidan? He's got that, so katon in confirmed.
And yea, Kurenai had it rough, but that move she did use would be almost impossible for most ninja to break before getting stabbed in the throat. Going by the background material, she's good at both taijutsu and ninjutsu too.
Without hax abilities like those you mentioned, I doubt they'd reach Kakashi's current level in 5 years. Kakashi's supposedly a guy who knows more than 1000 jutsus, which gives him an incredible amount of versatility in addition to his Sharingan & MS. For all we know, he could use all 5 elements because of the Sharingan, though I only remember him using 3.
The only reason he's not well into Kage-level in my book, is due to his relatively mediocre chakra capacity.
Maybe a decade then, but I bet they'd get there eventually.
Asuma's a Sarutobi, so I figure he knows a lot of jutsu we haven't seen too.
As for Kakashi's jutsu, I think that while the sharingan tells him the hand movement of different jutsu, he still has to figure out how to shape each element from base on his own. Sasuke's got the sharingan but has been mentioned as only knowing lightning and fire, so it's not a cheat to extra elements like Rinnegan.
That said, only Kakashi and Mei Temuri have been shown to manipulate three elements without a cheat, so that's uber impressive even with just three.
IMO, Tsunade should probably be at S, while Orochimaru & Jiraiya should be in S+, along with 1-4 Hokages, Nagato, Itachi, Raikage, Bee, Naruto & Sasuke. I agree with the rest.
Tsunade is S normally, but the reason I give her a + as well is the chakra store, which allowed her to cancel the effect of one of the most powerful jutsu we've ever seen, not just against her, but for everyone in the village, thousands of people. And it's just chakra, she could use it for *anything*.
I'd say Nagato is strong enough to be worth considering another rank S++, or Double-SS, or however one would class that. Likely Madara (at full) would be in that level too.
It's funny, from what we've seen in him in person he didn't see *that* uber (though up there with the other Hokage, and people do generally talk about Wood as if it was one of the best kekkei genkai, if even the shadows of it Danzo and Yamato have can do what they do), yet the fourth considered himself outmatched by Madara and lost his life in their fight, while Hashirama stalemated him several times.
Originally posted by Q99
Remember the ash attack he used against Hidan? He's got that, so katon in confirmed.And yea, Kurenai had it rough, but that move she did use would be almost impossible for most ninja to break before getting stabbed in the throat. Going by the background material, she's good at both taijutsu and ninjutsu too.
Ahh right. Yeah. Figures he would have Katons. Like you said, he's a Sarutobi.
Yep. Also, shouldn't she have given birth by now or something?
Originally posted by Q99
As for Kakashi's jutsu, I think that while the sharingan tells him the hand movement of different jutsu, he still has to figure out how to shape each element from base on his own. Sasuke's got the sharingan but has been mentioned as only knowing lightning and fire, so it's not a cheat to extra elements like Rinnegan.That said, only Kakashi and Mei Temuri have been shown to manipulate three elements without a cheat, so that's uber impressive even with just three.
The Sharingan just copies a jutsu, and allows the user to use them from then on afaik. If Sasuke used his Sharingan to copy Kisame's water jutsu, he would be able to use said jutsu from the get-go, provided he had the necessary chakra capacity.
It technically is a cheat to extra elements, but the Rinnegan is better in that department.
Apart from the copied jutsu(s) in a certain element, I don't think the Sharingan user will be able to perform any other jutsus in that element if he/she doesn't have an affinity for that element.
Yeah, Mei can use 3 elements, and 2 special elements >__>.
Originally posted by Q99
Tsunade is S normally, but the reason I give her a + as well is the chakra store, which allowed her to cancel the effect of one of the most powerful jutsu we've ever seen, not just against her, but for everyone in the village, thousands of people. And it's just chakra, she could use it for *anything*.
True. However, it is a one-time thing in a battle, and she needs a heck of build-up for that seal to work.
Originally posted by Q99
I'd say Nagato is strong enough to be worth considering another rank S++, or Double-SS, or however one would class that. Likely Madara (at full) would be in that level too.
I'm all for Nagato, Madara, Hashirama & Hiruzen being in a higher rank, but S++ is just classless. Just leave them in S+, or make a SS rank. If we include the SS rank, we should probably put the Sage of the Six Paths in SSS.
If Madara at full strength is as powerful as he is hyped up to be, he'd probably be higher than Nagato, IMO. Same rank, but higher.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Ahh right. Yeah. Figures he would have Katons. Like you said, he's a Sarutobi.Yep. Also, shouldn't she have given birth by now or something?
Pain's attack was probably a week ago or two ago, she has time.
The Sharingan just copies a jutsu, and allows the user to use them from then on afaik. If Sasuke used his Sharingan to copy Kisame's water jutsu, he would be able to use said jutsu from the get-go, provided he had the necessary chakra capacity.
It technically is a cheat to extra elements, but the Rinnegan is better in that department.
Apart from the copied jutsu(s) in a certain element, I don't think the Sharingan user will be able to perform any other jutsus in that element if he/she doesn't have an affinity for that element.
I dunno, I've never seen a sharingan user copy a jutsu of a chakra type that wasn't theirs already.
And we know they can't copy combined-element ones for sure.
True. However, it is a one-time thing in a battle, and she needs a heck of build-up for that seal to work.
Releasing it doesn't seem to take that long.
Also, just assumption on my part, every time we've seen one of the Trio fight they bust out new stuff, and we've never seen her really go at full (Kabuto fight, she would've won without using anything special were it not for the blood weakness). So I bet she's got more we haven't seen.
I'm all for Nagato, Madara, Hashirama & Hiruzen being in a higher rank, but S++ is just classless. Just leave them in S+, or make a SS rank. If we include the SS rank, we should probably put the Sage of the Six Paths in SSS.
SS, yea. Who can be - or + too.
Hm, I wonder if Hashirama used the biju in his old fights. It might be he'd be S+ without them, but in the SSs with them.
Originally posted by Q99
I dunno, I've never seen a sharingan user copy a jutsu of a chakra type that wasn't theirs already.And we know they can't copy combined-element ones for sure.
He can't copy combined elements because those require the actual chakra natures, not just the ability to use jutsu of that nature.
Originally posted by Q99
Pain's attack was probably a week ago or two ago, she has time.
She was around 3-4 months pregnant when we saw her just after Asuma's death I think. A few months must have passed between now and then I think.
Originally posted by Q99
I dunno, I've never seen a sharingan user copy a jutsu of a chakra type that wasn't theirs already.And we know they can't copy combined-element ones for sure.
Well, Kakashi's a Lightning-type (I think you can only have one Chakra affinity), but he's copied Water jutsu a number of times. Besides, it can also copy genjutsu apparently, so maybe it has more to do with the way chakra is used, as opposed to the jutsu itself.
True. That's because combined-elements need a Kekkai Genkai & the Sharingan cannot copy Kekkai Genkai techniques.
Originally posted by Q99
Releasing it doesn't seem to take that long.Also, just assumption on my part, every time we've seen one of the Trio fight they bust out new stuff, and we've never seen her really go at full (Kabuto fight, she would've won without using anything special were it not for the blood weakness). So I bet she's got more we haven't seen.
Well, yeah, but I was talking about the time it takes for her to form a new seal. And if she uses the seal, she cannot use it again for a long time.
I guess she does. She'll probably show us what she can really do during the war. Maybe she'll take on Kabutomaru, and really give him a fight.
Originally posted by Q99
SS, yea. Who can be - or + too.Hm, I wonder if Hashirama used the biju in his old fights. It might be he'd be S+ without them, but in the SSs with them.
In a one-on-one fight? Most likely. In a fight where his clansmen were around? Probably not. Even with full control, there's a risk he might end up hurting his own kinsmen.
SSS should be left for the Sage of the Six Paths, & Madara if he becomes the Juubi's host (if that is his true plan in the first place)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, Kakashi's a Lightning-type (I think you can only have one Chakra affinity), but he's copied Water jutsu a number of times. Besides, it can also copy genjutsu apparently, so maybe it has more to do with the way chakra is used, as opposed to the jutsu itself.
Kakashi knows three nature transformations, with the main one he has the most affinity for being lightning, and both earth and water being shown but never air or fire, despite ample exposure to fire jutsu.
A bunch of people have multiple nature transformations- Asuma has fire and air with his affinity being air, Hiruzen earth and fire, Jiraiya earth and fire, and none of those have kekkei genkai at all.
Well, yeah, but I was talking about the time it takes for her to form a new seal. And if she uses the seal, she cannot use it again for a long time.
True, but that's only a significant disadvantage if she has multiple S-class fights in a row.
I guess she does. She'll probably show us what she can really do during the war. Maybe she'll take on Kabutomaru, and really give him a fight.
I hope the anime adds in some Pain fighting for her- it was originally supposed to happen but the editors made Kishimoto hurry things up so it got cut.
And yea, with the whole Akatsuki around I'd be amazed if she didn't get at least one S-class true throwdown.
SSS should be left for the Sage of the Six Paths, & Madara if he becomes the Juubi's host (if that is his true plan in the first place)
We could also dub them SS+, since there's really no-one between them and the other possible double-S ranked ones.
Originally posted by Q99
Kakashi knows three nature transformations, with the main one he has the most affinity for being lightning, and both earth and water being shown but never air or fire, despite ample exposure to fire jutsu.A bunch of people have multiple nature transformations- Asuma has fire and air with his affinity being air, Hiruzen earth and fire, Jiraiya earth and fire, and none of those have kekkei genkai at all.
Combining nature manipulations requires you to have both chakra natures, not simply the ability to use both manipulations, and that is only possible for those with kekkai genkais, or weird cases like Kakuzu who artificially gained more.
Originally posted by Q99
Kakashi knows three nature transformations, with the main one he has the most affinity for being lightning, and both earth and water being shown but never air or fire, despite ample exposure to fire jutsu.A bunch of people have multiple nature transformations- Asuma has fire and air with his affinity being air, Hiruzen earth and fire, Jiraiya earth and fire, and none of those have kekkei genkai at all.
Ninjas only have one elemental affinity. Kakashi being able to manipulate water and earth can be attributed to either the Sharingan, or his own training/skill, but not his affinity.
The Sharingan is said to copy any nin/tai/gen-jutsu. Its only hampered by specialized techniques (KG & Summons), and the user's ability. That's how it is described in the databooks I think.
I thought you were talking about combined-elements here, like Lava/Boil/Storm/Wood/Ice and so on. Lots of people have the ability to use more than one element, but only a few can properly 'combine' 2 elements, and come with an entirely new type. That requires a Kekkai Genkai, and the Sharingan cannot copy those techniques.
That aside, copying/memorizing has pretty much taken a back-seat to the other powers of the Sharingan and its variants. The last time I think it was shown was when Sasuke copied Lee.
Originally posted by Q99
True, but that's only a significant disadvantage if she has multiple S-class fights in a row.
It's also a disadvantage if she ends up using it in a battle, and is somehow forced into a situation where she would need to use it again.
Originally posted by Q99
I hope the anime adds in some Pain fighting for her- it was originally supposed to happen but the editors made Kishimoto hurry things up so it got cut.
Really? Where'd you hear that?
As for the anime, yeah, same here. Though I think she's already saved the rest of Konoha and entered Coma in the anime.
Originally posted by Q99
We could also dub them SS+, since there's really no-one between them and the other possible double-S ranked ones.
True. Though IMO, it seems more fitting if the Sage gets SSS, as opposed to SS+. Or we could just put Hiruzen, the Kyuubi, and Madara w/ Kyuubi in SS+?
Hashirama with most of the tailed beasts under his control could be in SS+ as well. While Hashirama on his own would be in SS.