The Official Naruto series Thread

Ninja are part sneaks, part front line fighters, part versatile magic users. Naruto's mostly the second

Of course the 4th Hokage also wore a bright color.

Originally posted by Kento
[B]Sand, Stone, and Mist never had anybody worth Kidnapping. 😛

It was Cloud? I thought it was the Mist damiyo...but I don't remember.

Onoki is probably famous, but I doubt A is anywhere near as famous as Tsunade or the other Sannin.

A's old enough to have been kage for quite awhile and a ninja for longer. He was probably Kage in the 3rd ninja world war, and could've fought in the second as a young ninja too.

So he'd have plenty of reason to have fame, most likely he's one of Cloud's most famous.

The Sannin are Leaf's most famous, but every village is going to have their celebrities (Chiyo seemed to have been fairly famous, for example, for both puppets and poison).

I'm not even sure if we can talk about 'more famous' at this level, they're all likely extremely known quantities if they've been active S-class for decades.

Originally posted by killermover
Itachi or Minato

Jiraya or Madara

Killer Bee and A or Sasuke or Itachi

Kushina or Mikoto

Uchiha clan > Konoha Senjus and clans

1. Eh, as far as characters go Itachi I guess, Minato does not really interest me as a character.

2. Madara easily.

3. Killer Bee and A.

4. Kushina, actually, you know, being somewhat relevant helps.

5. Don't really care about clans, I just judge individual characters.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Reading your entire post left a bad taste in my mouth, and I don't know why you are so obsessed with Sasuke, but I will answer this.

I hate Taka Sasuke. I seriously consider him one of the worst characters or the manga among the characters who still matter. Ino or Sai are probably worse. But they hardly matter anymore. On the other hand Sasuke is very central character.

I won't even adress the fact he spams MS and fights like a retard.

Until Hebi Sasuke he was still my favourite character.

We can agree or disagree many things about Sasuke except his relevance as character. He had his own backstory built in terms of character relationships and themes that weren't related at all with the main character.

Sasuke was designed as rival of Naruto. But at the same time he was his own character with his own theme or motive: revenge.

Revenge constitutes everything that drives this character. We can agree or disagree if this theme was cliche or if Sasuke methods were justified or not. In fact many of the great debates in this forum born from that notion. Kishimoto always allowed room for that discussion. Regardless what you feel about the theme of revenge or if you dislike or like Sasuke we can all agree if something it's cliche it still could OR SHOULD be well developed.

One Piece, Kenichi and other shounen follow many cliches formulas but they give their own flavour and remain consistent.

So here I will adress my first reason I dislike Taka Sasuke.

1-What was crucial to Sasuke's character was the dichotomy between his goal and his method.

Kishimoto never said Sasuke's revenge per se was wrong. He never questioned the moral ground of Sasuke for wanting revenge. He questioned the methods and consecuences. That's why Kakashi said "stop your revenge... it will make you feel empty at the end". He isn't saying Sasuke wasn't justified... but at the end it won't bring him happiness.

This allow certain readers, fans, etc to make a connection with the character for good or bad. We know this kid suffered a great loss.

It's the weigh of that loss enough to justify any method?.

That was a question every reader had to answer. Our reaction towards the character would be a consecuence to that answer.

Taka Sasuke doesn't even leave space for that question. Kishimoto turned him into the Avatar of Hatred in order to justify his next fight against Naruto. Kishimoto destroyed all moral ambiguity in the character that set him apart from a villian and practically turned his goal and his method into something so childishly evil that doesn't left room for debate anymore. Before his fight with Itachi Sasuke was basically character-driven. He acted for good or wrong in terms or his convictions. That's why Sasuke could be ready to kill Naruto and at the same time try to save Oro's prisioners without any gain. That's why we could get different kind of reactions from him instead HATREEEEED like he was Nemesis from Resident Evil 3.

Kishimoto himself took a bit of time to react to the changes. For example making Taka Sasuke pulling an Amaterasu of friendship to save Team Taka AFTER ITACHI'S REVELATION. Yet in the next arc that involved him he was impaling Karin and laughing about it. What kind of character development is that?. It's not so much about Sasuke turning totally evil really... but it was so bad developed that is pathetic. If that was intention all along Kishimoto should spare us from comments like "I won't follow Itachi footsteps" and should focus from the beginning of Part 2 into following Sasuke slow descend to the darkness.

Instead of that what we get?.

Madara: Some random 3 elders ordered your brother kill your family. By the way... I took part in that too... but you shouldn't care too much.

Sasuke: HATREEEEED.... I'm the avatar of the elder son..... I'm gonna rape Team Taka even if that wasn't my style 30 chapters ago.

Hebi Sasuke hardly wanted to kill someone for pleasure before. Itachi was a duty. He tried to kill Team 7 only because he felt they get in the path of his revenge and to cut his bonds. But he never went on purpose trying to kill someone who wasn't directly implied in his revenge. We have the example of the 1000 fodders he defeated training with Oro, sparing Oro's experiments, saving Taka members, avoiding to kill Deidara, etc. Now Kishi pulls this shit he want "everyone felt his hatred... and turn his laughs into screams and crap" He completely changed his mentality.

Taka Sasuke was ready to spare DEIDARA who is more related to the evil Itachi represented by virtue to been partners in the Akatsuki... yet right now he wants to kill little girls, old men, women, etc that hardly were related with what Danzo and the other 2 elders did just for the lulz?.

Which brings me to the second point....

2-The target of his revenge.

We all agree that a good revenge story should have a memorable target.

This what pre-retcon Itachi represented.

1-The brother of the victim
2-Betrayed his trust
3-Appeared as an super powerful and invincible villian (at last in Part 1... I'm just talking the way he was introduced).

All this elements constitute a good drama. While I didn't like Itachi turning into a "dood guy" this development could have been better if was introduced at the end of the manga instead killing him in the middle leaving an empty Sasuke who was turned into a plot driven character to hype Naruto.

I don't like Itachi. But I admit among all characters there isn't one with the potential to enhance Sasuke's theme.

Itachi always should have been Sasuke's final boss. Killing him so soon was a mistake in my opinion.

Seriously who is Sasuke's target right now?. 3 random elders that hardly were developed during the series and Konoha villagers.

One of the main questions of the series was if Sasuke would be able to fulfill his revenge. Now this question was destroyed. What is his target seriously?. He already killed Danzo who was the main instigator against Uchiha. What this mean?. He completed 16% of his revenge or something?. There is no sense of completition anymore. Regardless if Itachi was good or not this answer and his fight should introduced at the end to close Sasuke's story.

There isn't so much drama between random elders and villagers compared to Itachi who was directly related to Sasuke, shared a backstory, a bond, etc... "Oh I'm gonna kill fodder number 392...." who ****ing cares?.

The only way to fix this a little would be if Itachi never killed the Uchiha at all and all was done by Madara instead just "helping him"... and even then it isn't a comparable bond. Besides Madara was already hyped as Naruto's final villian.

Maybe if Namikaze or Uzumaki clan were directly related to Uchiha's massacre.... nah... nothing with fix this crap anymore....

At this point I'm just interested in how everything will end and if Madara will provide more lulz trolling everyone. Sasuke has turned into a horrible character... not just for his haters... but for everyone who doesn't keep deluding himself. Probably it's consecuence of the whole manga going down into the toilet (Naruto turning into a messiah for example or secondary characters turned into Gato's samurais in terms of relevance) but at last I was hoping if Kishimoto would sacrifice the whole manga to develop a theme he would put more effort. Otherwise bring Ino and made her kage level.

You responded to a sentence with an essay.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You responded to a sentence with an essay.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Eh, as far as characters go Itachi I guess, Minato does not really interest me as a character.

2. Madara easily.

3. Killer Bee and A.

4. Kushina, actually, you know, being somewhat relevant helps.

5. Don't really care about clans, I just judge individual characters.

1. I know Minato's a crappy parent but putting him above a guy that kills his own family is kind of weird.

2. 🤨

3. ✅

4. I don't know how that comparison can even be made from just one flashback.

5. Okay? Rinnegan > clans? 😐

Taka Sasuke doesn't even leave space for that question. Kishimoto turned him into the Avatar of Hatred in order to justify his next fight against Naruto.

No, he did so in order to fill a story role about revenge and hate that's been a major underlying theme of Naruto since the beginning and how revenge can turn even a once-good person bad.

This has been Sasuke's fate from day one.

Originally posted by killermover
I'm just passionate like that. I am in college after all. I do essays in my sleep, but the real question is will you anwser back?

YOU'RE IN COLLEGE???!?!?!?!?

Dude, I sooo thought you were like 13 or something.

Originally posted by Q99
No, he did so in order to fill a story role about revenge and hate that's been a major underlying theme of Naruto since the beginning and how revenge can turn even a once-good person bad.

This has been Sasuke's fate from day one.

Kishit said at the latest Jump Festa that he had just decided Sasuke's new direction very recently. He used the word "evil" whereas in the past he had kept emphasizing that Sasuke was still very human despite being very focused on revenge.

I guess that he suddenly realized he had screwed up with Naruto stalking Sasuke who did not need him to save him at all.
Here comes Saint Itachi's retcon, Madara, Pain, the prophecy and all this peace& love vs hatred destiny crap. Naruto reaches Destiny God mode Sue status, and to justify his endless pursuit of Sasuke, Sasuke is suddenly turned into an incoherent retarded cardboard villain who needs Nardo's divine gospel like Nagato did.

One thing we have to take into account is the importance of editors, especially for weekly series. There were obviously huge differences of style between part1, part2 up to the death of Itachi, and the current peace&love era. I guess Kishimoto's current editors are much more lenient now because he is famous and could release whatever he wants without any risk of the series being dropped at this point.
His first editors had a very positive influence over his work, as his pilot for Naruto was really not that good. He also left some notes about the creating process in the first volumes. Naive people who think that everything had been planned all along should definitely read those. Sasuke just so happened to be appart of that.

Sasuke like the story had to meet the standards of the editors not himself. Kishit even butchered his fighting skill, transforming him into an MS whore like Itachi. Now that he barely uses any regular ninjutsus and that both sharingan genjutsu and amaterasu have been trolled too, he is reduced to being the pilot of Susanoo Mazinger Z.

Seriously, Krillin and Renji trolls are preschool level compared to Sasuke's. Sasuke never wins a fight fairly, he always struggles(despite being a ninja genius), he gets pwned the most out of all the team seven members and suffers more, and he's the one who gets saved most of all even though he says he never needed anyones help making Sasuke a asspie.

I read alot of manga's and when usually a character like Sasuke meets demands, he gets the demands, but nope. He has no ****ing character progression other than being arrogant and emo. He gets owned and mocked and even though he's just a kid, he's supposed to be a shounen rival who beats everyone except the main character.

Poorest author evar.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
1. I know Minato's a crappy parent but putting him above a guy that kills his own family is kind of weird.

2. 🤨

3. ✅

4. I don't know how that comparison can even be made from just one flashback.

5. Okay? Rinnegan > clans? 😐

2. I actually like Madara. He's better than villains like Aizen, at the very least. 😐

3. Indeed.

4. Kushina is alot more relevant than Sasuke's mom. Notice how I call her Sasuke's mom because I still have not dedicated her name to memory.

5. Pain sucks.

Edit: Killermover what the ****?

No Kishimoto recently pulled this out of his ass to justify Naruto's mary suedim and prolong the prospect of Godruto's main plot which is basically, beat evil and spread frienship speeches. He's basically Tea Gardner with blonde hair.

Kishit said at the latest Jump Festa that he had just decided Sasuke's new direction very recently. He used the word "evil" whereas in the past he had kept emphasizing that Sasuke was still very human despite being very focused on revenge.

Perhaps because at the time, he was?

It's still extremely fitting with the series' overall themes.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Some of my favorite characters of all time are utter inhumane monsters with no morality to speak of. Minato is very boring, him being a crappy parent is not why I don't care for him.

2. I actually like Madara. He's better than villains like Aizen, at the very least. 😐

3. Indeed.

4. Kushina is alot more relevant than Sasuke's mom. Notice how I call her Sasuke's mom because I still have not dedicated her name to memory.

5. Pain sucks.

1. It kind of hard to give a dead guy character development so I can see why he comes off as boring. Itachi's fighting style revolved mostly on his magic eyeballs which is why I commented.

2. Madara taking the Voldemort approach when Naruto was born made me loose some respect for him. Jiraiya sees through inflates-o-boobs lies(form) when they chat which makes me unsure as to put him below Madara.

4. I see your point.

5. He was awesome until he brought everyone in Konoha back from the dead. That, and he made himself the incarnation of the emo-boy.

Edit: That is major disrespect to Naruto.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
1. It kind of hard to give a dead guy character development so I can see why he comes off as boring. Itachi's fighting style revolved mostly on his magic eyeballs which is why I commented.

2. Madara taking the Voldemort approach when Naruto was born made me loose some respect for him. Jiraiya sees through inflates-o-boobs lies(form) when they chat which makes me unsure as to put him below Madara.

4. I see your point.

5. He was awesome until he brought everyone in Konoha back from the dead. That, and he made himself the incarnation of the emo-boy.

Edit: That is major disrespect to Naruto.

2. Voldemort approach? Also, what?

4. You better.

5. I never liked Pain. 😐

To be fair Naruto is not that great a manga.

Voldemort tried to kill Potter at birth.

Kishi was probably reading Harry Potter while writing the last chapter.

Originally posted by Q99
Perhaps because at the time, he was?

It's still extremely fitting with the series' overall themes.

What a shitty author, he's Stephine Meyer bad.

Originally posted by killermover
It feels tacked on and extremely forced to give Naruto and Sasuke a reason to fight.

Not to me.

Sasuke didn't need to sacrafice the last of his remaining character unqiueness to fufill an over used cliche within manga even though Pain just fufilled that trope not long ago. It's like Kishimoto wants everyone to acknowledge Naruto as the best character in the manga by having him repeat the same things with Sasuke he did with Pain and Zabuza.

Pain and Sasuke's characterizations are still a lot different.

What a shitty author, he's Stephine Meyer bad.

No, not even close. Not even in the same ballpark.

It seems I'm the only one who liked Pein.

Kishimoto is not that great, but nowhere near as bad as Stephanie Meyer.

Originally posted by Bentley
It seems I'm the only one who liked Pein.

Originally posted by Q99
Not to me.

No, not even close. Not even in the same ballpark.