The Official Naruto series Thread

On an unrelated note.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto-chapter-487-page-16.html

The black half says the white half is weak, is it possible that the black half is more suited for combat or something?

Originally posted by Astner
The genjutsu took out three bodies and the reason why it didn't take out the second wave (of all six bodies) was because they couldn't use it again so quickly.

A subjective notion, there's no reason to bring up yours thoughts regarding the quality of the manga.

No, he thought that (to himself) after the battle as a scenario of what would happen if they met again.

I don't recall this.

Pain weakened himself through his own attack but later regained his strength, Naruto could've prepared against Sasuke too--but apparently that was out of the question--and Sasuke defeated mastered Hachibi who's far more powerful than unmastered six-tailed Kyuubi.

2. Not necessarily the quality as a whole, only on that particular scene. It was bad writing.

3. Naruto being stupid and flustered around his boyfriend doesn't prove Itachi>Pain. Sasuke is probably stronger than Itachi right now. Oh, and it is implied Naruto is hiding something about their confrontation from the others, Sakura directly states it.

4. It was either Madara or Zetsu who said so, after the fight. If it was Madara, I am pretty sure it was when he confronted Sasuke over his failure to capture the Eight Tails.

5. Later regained his strength when most/all of his other Paths suffered from a case of the dead. Naruto never said anytihng about prep. Actually, Pain was able to stop and defeat the Six Tails, it was the Eight Tails that he could not fight. As for Sasuke defeating Hachibi, he threw the fight, this is explicitly shown on panel, to deny this is foolish. He escaped through the tentacle and was completely fine, whereas Sasuke and friends were badly beaten.

Chibaku Tensei would end a fight with Itachi immediately. That is the easiest method to winning, but not his only.

Originally posted by marwash22
Minato
Hashirama
Tobirama
Orochimaru

vs.

the Six Paths.

In my estimation, Oro stomps Pain... unless you wanna use the logic that Oro wouldn't have access to the Kage summoning due to the technique requring sacrifices; which to me, is illogical 'cause Oro wouldn't be foolish enough to fight a Kage level opponent without that prep work taken care of.

If we include prep, then Konan would beat about everyone but Madara in the manga, and Shikamaru is a god.

Originally posted by Q99
A buncha clone-shuriken fired before the jutsu was completed.

Yea, precisely how many people do you think can take being cut up by tens of thousands of paper blades or homing explosives? It's extremely fatal and good against larger numbers of foes.

Also as you made it clear in your discussion of Orochimaru, you're considering the people with prep, that thus'd include her 'bomb chasm jutsu,' of which almost no-one would survive.

perhaps Konan should be bumped up to 9 on my list.

I don't consider her prep and Oro's to be the same. All Oro does is kill 3 random people, there no telling how long it took Konan to make 600 million explosive tags; also, she said she did it specifically for Madara because she knew about his intangibility time limit... doesn't seem something she would always have prepared.

If you wanna count that one specific attack, you have to make Konan the most dangerous person in the entire series.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If we include prep Shikamaru is a god.

Originally posted by NemeBro
On an unrelated note.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto-chapter-487-page-16.html

The black half says the white half is weak, is it possible that the black half is more suited for combat or something?

It wouldn't surprise me.

White half is quite weak, mainly good for support and spying- the spore thing is annoying but every last ninja and samurai in the summit was able to remove it, and aside from that all it has is clones. That we know of so far at least.

Originally posted by marwash22
mmm

perhaps Konan should be bumped up to 9 on my list.

I don't consider her prep and Oro's to be the same. All Oro does is kill 3 random people, there no telling how long it took Konan to make 600 million explosive tags; also, she said she did it specifically for Madara because she knew about his intangibility time limit... doesn't seem something she would always have prepared.

If you wanna count that one specific attack, you have to make Konan the most dangerous person in the entire series. That's a bit different. Shika's prep required planning and intel about opponent. Oro's prep and even Konan's only involves leg-work... something they can have in advance of knowing anyting about the opponent.

Originally posted by marwash22
mmm

perhaps Konan should be bumped up to 9 on my list.

I don't consider her prep and Oro's to be the same. All Oro does is kill 3 random people, there no telling how long it took Konan to make 600 million explosive tags; also, she said she did it specifically for Madara because she knew about his intangibility time limit... doesn't seem something she would always have prepared.

Who says she made them herself? Konan owns a village, she has other ninja for that.

Remember, Deidara's stuff is all prep too, he prepares all of his explosives.

While that many is probably rare, she's certainly always going to have a more reasonable number in a fight. Likely thousands at the least.

And think about the face she can control that much paper at all- that means she could do the same kind of thing as the chasm with created sheets instead of bombs, and just bombard someone with paper-blades until they go down, unless they have a way to deal with them.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Also, I am a hundred percent sure the bodies cannot be as strong as they were prime, Hashirama was pathetic compared to his prime when fighting Sarutobi.

On the subject of summonings, who do you think Kabuto has in that last coffin? I'm guessing it's Hiruzen.

Originally posted by Q99
Hm... and Konan with prep / Kisame without Samehada?

As for my list, I'd bump up Konan. Sans explosive tags, the chasm thing would still kill members of akatsuki as simple paper attacks, and even without that level of prep, Konan'd still normally have plenty of tags. Plus she's one of the members able to ignore lost limbs and such.

So I put Kakuzu/Sasori/Konan in the same general level (I think Konan'd beat Sasori if her paper form makes her safe from poison, but the poison makes him worse against most other foes).

My list is:
Nagato
Itachi (Healthy)
Madara (only because of his 5-minute Izanagi)
Konan (w/ billion tags)
Itachi (Sick)
Kisame (w/ Samehada)
Orochimaru
Kakuzu
Sasori
Konan (w/o billion tags)
Deidara
Kisame (w/o Samehada)
Hidan
Zetsu

Konan would be much higher with years of prep, and Kisame would be much lower without Samehada.

Yeah, her Chasm Technique is pretty uber. Billions of Papers, and a sheer drop (provided they're fighting on Water) is a pretty uber combination.

I'd place sick Itachi above Konan with her tags, as he's still excellent with genjutsu, and there's always Tsukiyomi. She has demonstrated no resistance to genjutsu, and even if she does have some special resistance, Tsukiyomi would still take her down.

Originally posted by Q99
I dunno, her paper form makes her fairly hard to hurt. Safe from poison against Sasori, and while explosives take out some paper she can block and is much more resistant to damage than Deidara is, and Deidara can't avoid attacks by taking to the air since she's better there too.

Kakuzu I'd think would be better off against Konan than Deidara.

How exactly is she better in the air? Deidara has avoided Gaara's Sand while on his clay-bird. Konan either moves as a mass of papers bunched together (though she can space them out, they still have to remain fairly close to each other), or she just charges straight at her opponent.
His C2 Dragon makes him a much bigger target though.

Also, a simple C3 has the potential to destroy her. A few hundred tags would have destroyed her along with Madara, which was her initial plan apparently.
A C3 is much more powerful than that many tags. I'd even say that C2 is much more powerful, and C2 has the advantage of being guided.
Then there's C4, which she should have no knowledge about. Since she presumably needs to breathe, even in paper form, C4 would get her as well.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
lol wouldn't the hearts be a detriment for Kakuzu when Sasori poisons him? I'd imagine he'd be pumping the poison 5 times as fast as everyone else. And Deidara should only need a nice C3 or C4 to take Kakuzu down.

Correction then, defeat him. And Zetsu was willing to fight Naruto, which at the time was pretty ballsy of him. Even Madara seemed surprised. But yeah I guess by showings, he doesn't have anything to prove he could beat him.

He can remove the hearts long before Sasori poisons him, and then just replace his current heart. Also, he's much faster than Sakura is, and likely much more agile.

C4 would work extremely well against Kakuzu, unless he manages to figure out Deidara's weakness. Personally, I think he could easily deduce the weakeness, but he'll need to see Deidara's hand seals in order to figure it out.
To be fair though, C4 is pretty hax. The only way to defend against it is to either use a Raiton tech on yourself, or to have a doujutsu. In case you get the bombs inside you, you are dead without a Raiton tech.

_________
Newer List:

Nagato
Madara (with an extra eye for a 5-minute Izanagi)
Itachi
Konan (w/ years of prep billions of explosive tags)
Kisame (w/ Samehada)
Orochimaru
Sasori
Kakuzu
Deidara
Konan (w/o years of prep)
Kisame (w/o Samehada)
Hidan
______
Zetsu (until more is revealed)

what's up with people ranking character's without standard gear? Samehada is standard gear for Kisame, 600 million tags is not standard for Konan. Whatev though; new list...

1. Itachi
2. Madara
3. Pein
4. Orochimaru
5. Sasori
6. Kakuzu
7. Deidara
8. Konan
9. Kisame
10. Hidan
11. Zetsu

Q99
Who says she made them herself? Konan owns a village, she has other ninja for that.

Oh, I'm now picturing the scene from Clerks: The Animated Series at the Korean animation studio with a bunch of ninja cranking out tags.

"Everybody work!"
*Whip-crack*
"Everybody work!"
*Whip again*

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
[B]
How exactly is she better in the air? Deidara has avoided Gaara's Sand while on his clay-bird. Konan either moves as a mass of papers bunched together (though she can space them out, they still have to remain fairly close to each other), or she just charges straight at her opponent.
His C2 Dragon makes him a much bigger target though.

Hm, I was just thinking of the dragon, not the smaller clay bird...

Still, all her attacks can fly and she can surrounded a target with aerial paper, so I'd bet on her in an air-to-air battle.

Also, a simple C3 has the potential to destroy her. A few hundred tags would have destroyed her along with Madara, which was her initial plan apparently.
A C3 is much more powerful than that many tags. I'd even say that C2 is much more powerful, and C2 has the advantage of being guided.

True, if it hit her body. There is using paper for defense, like when she blocked Jiraiya's flame jutsu.

marwash22
Samehada is standard gear for Kisame, 600 million tags is not standard for Konan.

Yea, but she's still gonna have plenty for standard.

People give Itachi at top health too much credit, Pein just has better feats than every other member.

I would also be interested in discussing how Kisame w Sahameda is stronger than Orochimaru at all, I would consider them equally matched at best (for Kisame).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He can remove the hearts long before Sasori poisons him, and then just replace his current heart. Also, he's much faster than Sakura is, and likely much more agile.

C4 would work extremely well against Kakuzu, unless he manages to figure out Deidara's weakness. Personally, I think he could easily deduce the weakeness, but he'll need to see Deidara's hand seals in order to figure it out.
To be fair though, C4 is pretty hax. The only way to defend against it is to either use a Raiton tech on yourself, or to have a doujutsu. In case you get the bombs inside you, you are dead without a Raiton tech.

_________
Newer List:

Nagato
Madara (with an extra eye for a 5-minute Izanagi)
Itachi
Konan (w/ years of prep billions of explosive tags)
Kisame (w/ Samehada)
Orochimaru
Sasori
Kakuzu
Deidara
Konan (w/o years of prep)
Kisame (w/o Samehada)
Hidan
______
Zetsu (until more is revealed)

Just takes one scratch though. He can replace the hearts but not the blood or the rest of him. Also, just realized something: How cool would it be for Kakuzu to win and then take Sasori's heart? How would that turn out I wonder?

Even if he figured out the weakness of the bombs, I can't see him beating C4. He can't see the bombs and after he breathes, He's one Katsu away from blowing up. C4 is awesome hax, one of the most hax moves in the manga probably.

Do like the new list though.

Originally posted by Bentley

I would also be interested in discussing how Kisame w Sahameda is stronger than Orochimaru at all, I would consider them equally matched at best (for Kisame).

Yea, Kisame was worried about taking on Jiraiya, who's roughly equal to Orochimaru.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Chibaku Tensei would in all likelihood kill them all. Except maybe HAshirama, who depending on the amount of wood he can manipulate might be able to survive.

If we include prep, then Konan would beat about everyone but Madara in the manga, and Shikamaru is a god.

She had years of prep against Madara, which is how she came up with the 600 Billion Explosive Tags Strat.
She won't have such prep against anyone else in the Akatsuki barring Pain.
That said, I don't see why Genjutsu wouldn't take her out quickly. She hasn't demonstrated any special resistance like Deidara, Killerbee or Raikage have.

Originally posted by Bentley
People give Itachi at top health too much credit, Pein just has better feats than every other member.

I would also be interested in discussing how Kisame w Sahameda is stronger than Orochimaru at all, I would consider them equally matched at best (for Kisame).

Itachi at full health (and fighting to kill) is an unknown, just like Hiruzen at Prime. All we know is that they would be far stronger than they were typically shown to be in the manga. That said, IMO, Pain is above even Healthy Itachi.

If Orochimaru had prep (for Edo Tensei), I'd put him above Kisame. Without Prep, it's more of a toss-up.
Kisame can absorb shitloads of chakra thanks to Samehada. His durability is also incredible; it is easily on Orochimaru's level, if not above it. He took Afternoon Tiger and wasn't even KO'd.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Just takes one scratch though. He can replace the hearts but not the blood or the rest of him. Also, just realized something: How cool would it be for Kakuzu to win and then take Sasori's heart? How would that turn out I wonder?

Even if he figured out the weakness of the bombs, I can't see him beating C4. He can't see the bombs and after he breathes, He's one Katsu away from blowing up. C4 is awesome hax, one of the most hax moves in the manga probably.

Do like the new list though.

True, still, I wouldn't put it past him to be able to dodge the Puppets, or use Earth Jutsu to defend himself. Sasori's 100 Puppet Technique would present a much bigger problem though, I think.
Doesn't the heart just give him access to elemental affinities and such?

Right, he can't see the bombs/chakra, so he might not be able to figure out the nature of the attack. Didn't think of that.

Originally posted by Q99
Hm, I was just thinking of the dragon, not the smaller clay bird...

Still, all her attacks can fly and she can surrounded a target with aerial paper, so I'd bet on her in an air-to-air battle.

True, if it hit her body. There is using paper for defense, like when she blocked Jiraiya's flame jutsu.

True, but I think Gaara's Sand would move much faster than her Paper attacks could.

I don't think she blocked Jiraiya's fire jutsu. She tanked it, while in Paper form...or was that what you were talking about?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True, still, I wouldn't put it past him to be able to dodge the Puppets, or use Earth Jutsu to defend himself. Sasori's 100 Puppet Technique would present a much bigger problem though, I think.
Doesn't the heart just give him access to elemental affinities and such?

Right, he can't see the bombs/chakra, so he might not be able to figure out the nature of the attack. Didn't think of that.

True, but I think Gaara's Sand would move much faster than her Paper attacks could.

I don't think she blocked Jiraiya's fire jutsu. She tanked it, while in Paper form...or was that what you were talking about?

Yeah. Either Kakuzu wins without a scratch, or he loses. Irony of it all. Also, Sasori does have poison gas, which I think would help him some. And Sasori's heart is apparently alive so couldn't it still be Sasori mixed with Kakuzu? Weird combination.

Yeah, like I said, awesome hax.

What are you guys talking about? When did Jiraiya ever use a fire attack on Konan?

She had years of prep against Madara, which is how she came up with the 600 Billion Explosive Tags Strat.
She won't have such prep against anyone else in the Akatsuki barring Pain.

She had knowledge from years of being in the Akatsuki with him, but Konan didn't even consider him an enemy until the Naruto event. It's not like she prepared the battlefield that long, we're honestly talking like a week or so between the defection and the fight.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

Doesn't the heart just give him access to elemental affinities and such?

Each heart is an affinity, a mask-monster, and an extra life.

True, but I think Gaara's Sand would move much faster than her Paper attacks could.

Konan throws 'em like hundreds of shuriken, I think that's faster, though the sand seems more maneuverable, fluid-like.

I don't think she blocked Jiraiya's fire jutsu. She tanked it, while in Paper form...or was that what you were talking about?

There was a whole cloud of paper between 'em too, which I took to take it, and the anime showed it as a paper stream that pushed back the fire.

The Aura Angel

What are you guys talking about? When did Jiraiya ever use a fire attack on Konan?

Right before he met Pain, when he was using the Rain-nin as a puppet and Konan met him.

She wrapped the Rain-nin in paper, he threw a fireball, she was fine and threw hundreds of paper shuriken in response.

Ah I see. Forgot about that.

Originally posted by Q99
She had knowledge from years of being in the Akatsuki with him, but Konan didn't even consider him an enemy until the Naruto event. It's not like she prepared the battlefield that long, we're honestly talking like a week or so between the defection and the fight.

Wasn't talking about the setup for the battle-field, but more for the strat. Though fair enough, my mistake, it was years of knowledge. She still won't have that much knowledge against the others, seeing as she was by Madara's side all those years.

Originally posted by Q99
Konan throws 'em like hundreds of shuriken, I think that's faster, though the sand seems more maneuverable, fluid-like.

Shurikens/projectiles that Jiraiya is able to dodge when he's a few feet away. Meanwhile, Gaara's sand has appeared near-instantaneously, and that's when he does not have Shukaku inside him. Furthermore, the Shurikens are thrown in straight lines. Like you said, Gaara's sand is fluid-like. Hence it is more or less unpredictable to the opponent.

Originally posted by Q99
There was a whole cloud of paper between 'em too, which I took to take it, and the anime showed it as a paper stream that pushed back the fire.

I can't see a 'cloud of paper'. There is smoke, and a few pieces of paper around her, but that's about it.

I don't see how this is relevant anyway. C3 would have destroyed a sizeable portion of Sunagakure, if not the entirety of Sunagakure as Deidara believed. In addition to heat/energy, it would also have a tremendous amount of force. I doubt her regular paper amounts would absorb something like that. Perhaps something close to half the amount of paper used in her Paper Angel Tech.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yeah. Either Kakuzu wins without a scratch, or he loses. Irony of it all. Also, Sasori does have poison gas, which I think would help him some. And Sasori's heart is apparently alive so couldn't it still be Sasori mixed with Kakuzu? Weird combination.

Yeah, like I said, awesome hax.

I s'pose. Though I don't think it'd give him the ability to control puppets.

Not as awesome hax as Kirin. 313 Srsly though, Kirin's pretty hax, even with build-up (Naruto characters have a tendency to watch attacks being built-up instead of attacking opponents during build-up). Once it is fired off, I doubt anyone could survive it without something like Susano'o or Izanagi or Kakuzu with an extra heart that is far away from the blast radius. What about Kamui?