Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hey nao, I've had the second highest input into the tier listings, and the whole thing started from my suggestion in the first place. 313
K.
Good job, then.
But it doesn't feel right being forced to give love. weep
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Stop putting your own shortcomings on me.peaches
Lol.
naughty
I can only interpret that is that naughtiest way.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I still think people like Danzo, Jiraiya, Orochimaru & perhaps Sarutobi (old) belong in S+, with the dudes in S+ moved up to SS and onwards. Simply because someone like Orochimaru has more power and versatility at his disposal than someone like Sasori.
Then there's Danzou with Izanagi and Shisui's eye, not to mention great mastery over sealing techs and Fuuton techs.
Well, like I've long said, there's a variety within each level, even with +/mid/- there's a noticeable range at each, and getting a + should be huge. And with S especially, I'm going by "when in doubt, go lower," because most S-class have some uber jutsu that could be used to argue them up. Orochimaru's at the top (and as noted, that's without Edo Tensai, possibly his greatest technique of all), though Sasori does have a lot of versatility himself.
Danzo with his stolen techniques is up there too, but look at the current S+ members- I think all of them are more powerful both directly and against other foes. Plus he does have problems that when pushed he'll start losing them permanently (not just the eyes but the wood too).
Quite importantly, pretty much all of the jutsu we've seen from him are local, small number of targets ones, as befitting his background as an assassin leader. The danger of his special jutsu does still probably make him one of the more dangerous S, but I don't think he's noticeably above Kamui Kakashi or several others in S, and I think Sasori'd be pretty great against him. Overall, I do think everyone in S+ right now is just even greater.
Also, for now, I think Onoki belongs in S. He has S+ level power, but it's saddled due to his old age, and back problems.
Yea, I think I agree.
actual i think hes creating a whole new body for orichmaru but cant create it without his chakra levels and since his body is sealed with sasuke he cant revive him fully. maybe he is going to try to take some chakra levels from anko and kill her by reviving orichmaru.
And same thing goes for yamoko, maybe hes trying to revive the first some how with his dna!
Okay this is really bothering me! i know they might be dead but where is suigesto and jugo!
Originally posted by Q99
Well, like I've long said, there's a variety within each level, even with +/mid/- there's a noticeable range at each, and getting a + should be huge. And with S especially, I'm going by "when in doubt, go lower," because most S-class have some uber jutsu that could be used to argue them up. Orochimaru's at the top (and as noted, that's without Edo Tensai, possibly his greatest technique of all), though Sasori does have a lot of versatility himself.Danzo with his stolen techniques is up there too, but look at the current S+ members- I think all of them are more powerful both directly and against other foes. Plus he does have problems that when pushed he'll start losing them permanently (not just the eyes but the wood too).
Quite importantly, pretty much all of the jutsu we've seen from him are local, small number of targets ones, as befitting his background as an assassin leader. The danger of his special jutsu does still probably make him one of the more dangerous S, but I don't think he's noticeably above Kamui Kakashi or several others in S, and I think Sasori'd be pretty great against him. Overall, I do think everyone in S+ right now is just even greater.
The whole point of a tier listing is to give an idea of how powerful a person is. Simply bunching people up in order to be 'conservative', and leaving it up to the range in a tier is more arbitrary than putting the higher up ones in a completely different tier, when they deserve it.
It gets even worse when we don't arrange the ninja in a tier. How would a relative newb know who's at the top and the bottom of a tier?
Which is why I said that the ninja you've put in S+ should belong in SS and beyond, except perhaps for Madara (pre-Rinn'egan), who could remain in S+, along with guys like Orochimaru and Jiraiya. Personally, I think Sasori should be at the top of S, or Onoki, if we put him into S.
S+ would still only include a few ninja, like Orochimaru, Hiruzen (who only lost since Orochimaru used Edo Tensei. We have no idea how the fight would have turned out had Orochimaru himself fought), Jiraiya and Madara.
That's true, if he's pushed he would lose Mokuton and Izanagi, but that only happened when he was extremely low on chakra, and had been dealt a fatal blow.
Sasori would only be great against him since it's possible he could avoid Shisui's genjutsu altogether. Danzou's ability to control anyone gives him a very hax tool to use, with which he could potentially control nearly anyone.
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, I think I agree.
Alright. What about A? Him for S too? He's got speed and reflexes, but all his techniques are close-range, and he would have problems against solid defensive techniques like Susano'o or Gaara's Sand.
Originally posted by dadudemon
K.Good job, then.
But it doesn't feel right being forced to give love. weep
It doesn't feel right if you don't give love when it's due sneer
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I have no comings at all, much less shortcomings. Quit trying to make a fake superiority complex to hide your inferiority complex....Sasuke-kun. 131
I thought we established that you were the insane Uchiha chick, while I was the greatest Uchiha of all time.
Stop pretending to not have any shortcomings at all. Even Itachi knew that you had one too many, like your superiority & inferiority complexes. 313
Because delicious pastries!
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
The whole point of a tier listing is to give an idea of how powerful a person is. Simply bunching people up in order to be 'conservative', and leaving it up to the range in a tier is more arbitrary than putting the higher up ones in a completely different tier, when they deserve it.
Two things; One, we need to keep high tiers in line with lower. The existing tiers are quite large, and any new tiers should be based on the canon ones. I think the more we keep things in line with the canon ranks that ninja actually use, the better. I think modeling it roughly on how the characters would see it would help with accessibility.
Two, due to the uniqueness of abilities and the rock-paper-scissors effect, it's hard to get too specific since there's always a fuzziness involved. If the tiers were very specific, I think more inaccuracy would slip in, especially at the lower ones, so I'd rather have fuzziness than inaccuracy, and let people decide for themselves who's stronger in a tier.
Also, if we want to, we can always go through and add more detail later, or you could even go into the ranks and do high-low-mediums for each or so on. I have no problem with you or someone else using this chart as a base for going on to do your own more detailed chart or ranking system, possibly with specific orders. You seem to think a lot about the S-types, so I bet you could do a good one.
Alright. What about A? Him for S too? He's got speed and reflexes, but all his techniques are close-range, and he would have problems against solid defensive techniques like Susano'o or Gaara's Sand.
Yea, I think so. He supposedly beat up Killerbee at some point, but I think a lot of that is brotherly love, his actual feats don't blow other S-nulls out of the water or anything. Plus, of course, he's very individual-combat oriented while KB is both good in that and can make huge explosions.
Likewise, putting Mei Terumi in S would make sense to me.
One major player I notably left off- Jiraiya. He's powerful to begin with with such a huge variety of jutsu, S-null easily, then he has Sage Mode as his special jutsu, which makes him the strongest Sannin in direct combat without question IMO. He's one where I'm not sure which level to put him at.
Originally posted by menokokoro
Dadudemon....why? I had just gotten used to your other picture, now you had to change it to my favorite pastry, cinnamon rolls, now I'm going to be hungry every time you post
Because this!
Originally posted by Q99
Because delicious pastries!
I'm also changing my sig to a better donut pile.
Originally posted by Q99
One major player I notably left off- Jiraiya. He's powerful to begin with with such a huge variety of jutsu, S-null easily, then he has Sage Mode as his special jutsu, which makes him the strongest Sannin in direct combat without question IMO. He's one where I'm not sure which level to put him at.
I think I finally figured out what Jiraiya would do if he knew about Nagato's secret:
He would damage at least one, steal a rod, stab himself, use sage mode to locate Nagato, and due to his speed, he could move far faster than the Pain bodies. Once he got close to Nagato's location, he could then summon a large toad right above Pain's place, and smash Pain. The end of Pain.
That's probably why Jiraiya would probably have won had he known Pain's secret: the only Sage Mode user alive could have easily found his real body had he known about his secret. Makes sense, now, that I think about it.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I thought we established that you were the insane Uchiha chick, while I was the greatest Uchiha of all time.Stop pretending to not have any shortcomings at all. Even Itachi knew that you had one too many, like your superiority & inferiority complexes. 313
Don't be jealous just because I'm beautiful. And you aren't the greatest Uchiha of all time. You couldn't even handle a blonde pretty boy or the guy with a wood fetish. You are nothing.
Nah, I am simply perfect. And what did Itachi know? He killed our whole family and got AIDS. Clearly not thinking straight. And yet, he still scared you. 131
Spoiler:
yes, zabuza gets to fight kakashi again, this is good cause we may get to see how the part 1 badass stacks up to his rival who is pretty strong in part 2. neji and kiba also get to fight a zetsu army and black setsu makes an appearance, hopefully he does something.kabuto also has "another trump card" supposedly, and he starts making zabuza fight harder or something cause he is reminiscing too much with kakashi.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I think I finally figured out what Jiraiya would do if he knew about Nagato's secret:He would damage at least one, steal a rod, stab himself, use sage mode to locate Nagato, and due to his speed, he could move far faster than the Pain bodies. Once he got close to Nagato's location, he could then summon a large toad right above Pain's place, and smash Pain. The end of Pain.
That's probably why Jiraiya would probably have won had he known Pain's secret: the only Sage Mode user alive could have easily found his real body had he known about his secret. Makes sense, now, that I think about it.
If he drops a toad, Nagato can just use shinra tensei to repel it away.
Spoiler:
Division V is either really ****ing huge or spread out like crazy.Yay for Kakashi vs Zabuza! And I guess Haku vs Lee since they're both fast?
The Zetsu volcano was also cool.
Note: Hinata has canonically used a long range attack, so she does not suck in combat as much as before.
And, Zabuza on the cover looks badass.
New chapter.
Originally posted by Q99
Two things; One, we need to keep high tiers in line with lower. The existing tiers are quite large, and any new tiers should be based on the canon ones. I think the more we keep things in line with the canon ranks that ninja actually use, the better. I think modeling it roughly on how the characters would see it would help with accessibility.
Two, due to the uniqueness of abilities and the rock-paper-scissors effect, it's hard to get too specific since there's always a fuzziness involved. If the tiers were very specific, I think more inaccuracy would slip in, especially at the lower ones, so I'd rather have fuzziness than inaccuracy, and let people decide for themselves who's stronger in a tier.
Originally posted by Q99
Also, if we want to, we can always go through and add more detail later, or you could even go into the ranks and do high-low-mediums for each or so on. I have no problem with you or someone else using this chart as a base for going on to do your own more detailed chart or ranking system, possibly with specific orders. You seem to think a lot about the S-types, so I bet you could do a good one.
I understand and agree with the fuzziness point, but not point #1. S is the highest rank ninja have, but there are way too many in the S range. The high end ninja like Nagato and current Madara/Madara with Kyuubi shouldn't be in the same tier as people like Itachi or Minato IMO. Then there's the Sage who is far above anyone else. It's mainly due to them that I would like to go past S+.
Fair enough. You had your fun making the lower tiers. Now I'll have my fun making the higher tiers. 313
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, I think so. He supposedly beat up Killerbee at some point, but I think a lot of that is brotherly love, his actual feats don't blow other S-nulls out of the water or anything. Plus, of course, he's very individual-combat oriented while KB is both good in that and can make huge explosions.Likewise, putting Mei Terumi in S would make sense to me.
Agreed.
Same here. Low end S is fine for her. We haven't seen much of her, but she's a Kage with two decent Kekkai Genkais that she presumably has good control over.
Originally posted by Q99
One major player I notably left off- Jiraiya. He's powerful to begin with with such a huge variety of jutsu, S-null easily, then he has Sage Mode as his special jutsu, which makes him the strongest Sannin in direct combat without question IMO. He's one where I'm not sure which level to put him at.
Same tier as Orochimaru IMO. Orochimaru's stronger if we compare their base forms, but while Jiraiya has Sage Mode, it doesn't put him too far above Orochimaru; considering he has something like the Hydra Technique.
They go to the top of S+. 313