The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And my reply will be similar to before. Nothing at all indicates that the kunai function as anything more than mere kunai.

See my reply that directly addresses that. Yeah, there's a large indication that he kunai is important to the placement.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
When Zaku and Kin are revealed after Hiruzen sealed their souls, you couldn't see any kunai. When Shin blew up you didn't see any.

That's been explained, already, too.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
When Sasori was talked-no-jutsu you didn't see any, and if I were the SA Ambush Squad, I'd get the talisman so my friends might be able to figure out more details behind Kabuto's seal. It clearly disappears when placed inside them.

Not to Shin. 😐

See, that's a good point. However, no one knows about the talisman...which is a point I've already made, as well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
See my reply that directly addresses that. Yeah, there's a large indication that he kunai is important to the placement.

That's been explained, already, too.

See, that's a good point. However, no one knows about the talisman...which is a point I've already made, as well.

Only because Orochimaru used them in the first actual showing of the attack. They could not mean anything at all and you just don't want to admit it.

Where?

Hmm....problem with that is they'd assuredly know about the talismans. It was a jutsu of the 2nd Hokage, something everyone seems to know, so they'd have info on it. Even baring that, 3 Anbu saw the fight between Hiruzen and Orochimaru, so they could report information on the talismans, which in turn would fall into the SA's hands at one point.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Only because Orochimaru used them in the first actual showing of the attack. They could not mean anything at all and you just don't want to admit it.

Tone down the hostility. 😮‍💨

I could say that you refuse to admit that the whole package is important based on the delicious logic that I've already presented, but that's a bit rude and immature. There's better ways of telling people that they can or can't admit something. 😄

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Where?

I don't know what you're referring to because, currently, I cannot see the post that you said this to, so my answers is "Pizza Hut."

There was no "dissolve" so we could see the talisman. Zaku and Shin have no part in the "talisman" discussion because of that. See, addressed already, indirectly.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Hmm....problem with that is they'd assuredly know about the talismans. It was a jutsu of the 2nd Hokage, something everyone seems to know, so they'd have info on it. Even baring that, 3 Anbu saw the fight between Hiruzen and Orochimaru, so they could report information on the talismans, which in turn would fall into the SA's hands at one point.

No they wouldn't. If not even Madara knows how it works, why would anyone else know how it works? It's kind of like...a forbidden jutsu. Likely, it died with Hiruzen Sarutobi. Only Oro and Kabuto knew of it after that. If Madara could have "gained" that jutsu, do you think he would have needed Kabuto? Exactly. If there was another person that knew, Madara could just use that person. It's a dangerous gamble using Kabuto for this because Kabuto is obviously not Madara's best pal.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Tone down the hostility. 😮‍💨

I could say that you refuse to admit that the whole package is important based on the delicious logic that I've already presented, but that's a bit rude and immature. There's better ways of telling people that they can or can't admit something. 😄

I don't know what you're referring to because, currently, I cannot see the post that you said this to, so my answers is "Pizza Hut."

There was no "dissolve" so we could see the talisman. Zaku and Shin have no part in the "talisman" discussion because of that. See, addressed already, indirectly.

No they wouldn't. If not even Madara knows how it works, why would anyone else know how it works? It's kind of like...a forbidden jutsu. Likely, it died with Hiruzen Sarutobi. Only Oro and Kabuto knew of it after that. If Madara could have "gained" that jutsu, do you think he would have needed Kabuto? Exactly. If there was another person that knew, Madara could just use that person. It's a dangerous gamble using Kabuto for this because Kabuto is obviously not Madara's best pal.

You can't admit otherwise. /nicely

If the talisman was left behind, as in it was not absorbed, we would have seen it near Kin and Zaku's bodies. Not that it matters since Shin was blown up from head to toe and we didn't see the talisman anywhere near him.

Madara has more things to worry about. Besides, it was probably top secret information kept under lock and key by Konoha. And Madara initially didn't want to use Kabuto. He was kinda forced into it.

Here ya go.

Even more proof that they know how the jutsu works.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Here ya go.

All I see is a novice's understanding of the jutsu, not actually how to do it.

I'm sure quite a few ninjas could tell you how Naruto's rasenshuriken works, but no one can actually do it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Even more proof that they know how the jutsu works.

AHA! So you've proven me right: it doesn't get absorbed. He says, "Even the personalities of the spirits are erased by the fuda that's implanted in their heads..."

He could have said, "by the fuda that's absorbed by their heads." but he didn't. Is it possible that Kishi is trying to show us that there is supposed to be a way to defeat them beyond getting them to give up? That'd be cool if he tied the story together that well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
All I see is a novice's understanding of the jutsu, not actually how to do it.

I'm sure quite a few ninjas could tell you how Naruto's rasenshuriken works, but no one can actually do it.

You're missing the point. The Anbu clearly had some knowledge of the basic means of how the technique worked. Meaning the SA also has basic knowledge of how it works as well. Which means the Ambush Squad would have gotten the talisman if they could.

Originally posted by dadudemon
AHA! So you've proven me right: it doesn't get absorbed. He says, "Even the personalities of the spirits are erased by the fuda that's implanted in their heads..."

He could have said, "by the fuda that's absorbed by their heads." but he didn't. Is it possible that Kishi is trying to show us that there is supposed to be a way to defeat them beyond getting them to give up? That'd be cool if he tied the story together that well.

If there was a way of removing the tags, the SA would be trying to use that method to stop the enemy. It clearly cannot be removed. Shin was blown to pieces and the talisman still clearly worked on him.

Think about it: If Hiruzen could have removed the tags and the control over the Kage he fought, why didn't he? Why is that not presented as an option from the SA forces? Why did the talisman not leave Shin when he blew up?

And Orochimaru did implant them so I suppose that's what the proper term would be. Though they certainly don't appear to work like real life implants.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
You're missing the point. The Anbu clearly had some knowledge of the basic means of how the technique worked. Meaning the SA also has basic knowledge of how it works as well. Which means the Ambush Squad would have gotten the talisman if they could.

Where did they ever acknowledge the Talisman? I did not see that. I only saw that they had a basic understanding of the jutsu.

Additionally, if what you want it to say is true, that should prove the point that I've been making about the other characters being "stupid" because they don't just use a Hyuga to find the talisman and remove it.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If there was a way of removing the tags, the SA would be trying to use that method to stop the enemy. It clearly cannot be removed. Shin was blown to pieces and the talisman still clearly worked on him.

Blown to pieces, sure, but that's not very hard to do with soft clay.

If it could be removed, you'd see it put in. Wait, we do. 😐

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Think about it: If Hiruzen could have removed the tags and the control over the Kage he fought, why didn't he? Why is that not presented as an option from the SA forces? Why did the talisman not leave Shin when he blew up?

He lacked the ability to see where the tag was. There's also the problem of actually getting to that portion of their body.

Then there's also the problem of there being plot "stupidity" where they just don't try to remove the tag.

Additionally, the talisman remained whole and reformed, with Shin, as I've stated already.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And Orochimaru did implant them so I suppose that's what the proper term would be. Though they certainly don't appear to work like real life implants.

The only thing I see is a major plot hole in the jutsu, which is actually what it is. Others have rationalized, incorrectly, that it is not a plot hole by adding elements to Kishi's world that do not exist.

New chapter out!

Spoiler:
Cloud has some nice gear... the story behind the brothers sounds pretty mythological ... and I guess the brothers weren't part of the Kinkaku force after all.

Darui's quite badass. I hope Samui'll be ok if they can free her from the jug... her bro's kinda an idiot.

Originally posted by Q99
New chapter out!

Spoiler:
Cloud has some nice gear... the story behind the brothers sounds pretty mythological ... and I guess the brothers weren't part of the Kinkaku force after all.

Darui's quite badass. I hope Samui'll be ok if they can free her from the jug... her bro's kinda an idiot.

I thought the last chapter was pretty good.

I'm also going to lean on saying that Omoi is high A class if not low S class. He was going toe-to-toe with 2 S-Class Ninja and even got a slice on one of them.

Omoi's on the ambush squad (the member of Samui's team with the toothpick who's always worrying about implausible scenarios), this is Darui. And yea, I agree. No wonder he beat Suigetsu.

Something I'm noticing is the imbalance of gear between the nations. Mist really seems to have the best home-grown stuff, what with the 7 swords, and it wouldn't surprise me if they had the best craftspeople, it may be one of their strengths to make up for being relatively small in number. Cloud's

Spoiler:
collected most of the Sage's gear

Sand, of course, has puppets.

To give him fox chakra, Naruto will eat Sasuke 😉

(Too damn easy)

Originally posted by Q99
Omoi's on the ambush squad (the member of Samui's team with the toothpick who's always worrying about implausible scenarios), this is Darui. And yea, I agree. No wonder he beat Suigetsu.

I cannot keep them straight.

Darui, Omoi, Samui, and Karui. I'm bad with names. It doesn't help that if Omoi took out his headband, his hair would fall down and make him look like Darui even more. Put a toothpick or sucker in? That's it. Honestly, I thought it was Omoi and I did not confuse the names: I did not remember that there was a Darui and I thought this was Omoi after his crap with Shin but I did not put 2 and 2 together and think that he had to teleport to get all the way to the beach for it to be Omoi. 😬

Originally posted by Q99
Something I'm noticing is the imbalance of gear between the nations. Mist really seems to have the best home-grown stuff, what with the 7 swords, and it wouldn't surprise me if they had the best craftspeople, it may be one of their strengths to make up for being relatively small in number. Cloud's

Spoiler:
collected most of the Sage's gear

but aside from that seems to have good quality basic swords that rely on the user's jutsu for special effects. And Konoha uses swords a lot less often, though they do have chakra-daggers and did have the White Fang's chakra saber.

Sand, of course, has puppets.

Yeah, Konoha relies on sharingans, byakugans, bugs, and the Will of Fire. The Will of Fire = plot no jutsu = almost a sure win unless losing provides a path for wining in the future for the Will of Fire. So, yeah, the Konoha peeps will always win, even if it means lose now so you can win later.

They do need more gear, though. Granted, WHO MAKES THOSE SPECIAL WEAPONS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Obviously, you can craft a weapon with attributes in ANY form you want because the sky seems to be the limit. Regenerating METAL swords? Energy absorbing swords? Lightning swords that have otherwordly cutting ability? And anti-defense sword (the unstoppable sword meats the unbreakable defense? Which wins the battle: the Nuibari or Yata Mirror Shield? I'd say the Yata Mirror Shield beacuse it will "change" to make itself invulnerable to the unstoppable blow.)

Darui's the puffy-hair one with the cleaver weapon.

Omoi's shorter-haired, a lot skinnier, and has a conventional sword.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Yeah, Konoha relies on sharingans, byakugans, bugs, and the Will of Fire. The Will of Fire = plot no jutsu = almost a sure win unless losing provides a path for wining in the future for the Will of Fire. So, yeah, the Konoha peeps will always win, even if it means lose now so you can win later.

Range of jutsu is their strength. They also seem to have the best medics.

Mist has weaponry, and what looks like the second largest amount of elemental KG behind Stone. Sand has puppets and poison. Stone has elemental kekkei genkai like their blast corps. Cloud has chakra-assisted taijutsu.

They do need more gear, though. Granted, WHO MAKES THOSE SPECIAL WEAPONS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Obviously, you can craft a weapon with attributes in ANY form you want because the sky seems to be the limit. Regenerating METAL swords? Energy absorbing swords? Lightning swords that have otherwordly cutting ability?

Most likely there are elite smiths who use chakra.

I'm guessing very special, advanced secret techniques are needed to make the higher-end chakra-weapons. Perhaps similar to the techniques needed to make human puppets that Sasori'd use. The materials and difficulty and invested chakra are all likely very high, and many, especially the strongest like Chojiro's sword, may effectively be one-of-a-kind masterpieces. It wouldn't surprise me if Life-force transfer was a key component of Samehada.

Though for the treasures, my bet is the Sage somehow made them with Izanagi and Juubi chakra.

And anti-defense sword (the unstoppable sword meats the unbreakable defense? Which wins the battle: the Nuibari or Yata Mirror Shield? I'd say the Yata Mirror Shield beacuse it will "change" to make itself invulnerable to the unstoppable blow.)

I'd say the Yata mirror'd win easily. The anti-defense sword is, ultimately, a way to deliver a blow strong enough to break swords, shields, and armor, but it's still just a physical attack while the Yata mirror is a full-on Susano'o chakra construct with legendary supernatural properties.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Where did they ever acknowledge the Talisman? I did not see that. I only saw that they had a basic understanding of the jutsu.

Who? The SA or the Anbu? The Anbu showed basic knowledge of it when they saw Orochimaru vs Sarutobi. The SA will obviously know about it and inform the others about it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Additionally, if what you want it to say is true, that should prove the point that I've been making about the other characters being "stupid" because they don't just use a Hyuga to find the talisman and remove it.

So everyone in the manga is stupid because they won't do something that you think is possible but no one else seems to agree? Hmmm.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Blown to pieces, sure, but that's not very hard to do with soft clay.

If it could be removed, you'd see it put in. Wait, we do. 😐

I understand your logic. But since every character seems to not even mention that as a possibility, I'll take what they saw over your opinion.

Originally posted by dadudemon
He lacked the ability to see where the tag was. There's also the problem of actually getting to that portion of their body.

Then there's also the problem of there being plot "stupidity" where they just don't try to remove the tag.

Additionally, the talisman remained whole and reformed, with Shin, as I've stated already.

Sarutobi has enough sense to recognize it would be in the head. That's if he didn't see where Orochimaru implanted them. Unless you're suggest the talisman moves around the body.

Or...it's not possible.

Proof?

Originally posted by dadudemon
The only thing I see is a major plot hole in the jutsu, which is actually what it is. Others have rationalized, incorrectly, that it is not a plot hole by adding elements to Kishi's world that do not exist.

1. The characters can obviously still live without the talismans and clearly will still following the persons commands. So removing the tag, if at all possible, would be pointless.

2. You need proof that it is possible.

pretty good chapter. not too sure though about the power of taking someone into that gourd when they say a certain word though.

well, the talisman could fuse with the entire body right? if that happened then it would make sense why no one would be able to find it. of course it could be something else entirely.

I hate these new weapons. They irritate the **** outta me.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I hate these new weapons. They irritate the **** outta me.

Too gamey?

I think Kishi did go a bit overboard on the mythologicalness of these two.

Originally posted by Q99
Too gamey?

I think Kishi did go a bit overboard on the mythologicalness of these two.

Too dependant on other weapons. Except for the fan, which I somewhat like even though it's a stupid name.

I know right? Wonder who'll kill 'em.

Actually, their weapons would be invaluable for the SA. They should steal 'em.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Too dependant on other weapons. Except for the fan, which I somewhat like even though it's a stupid name.

In Japanese, it's "Bashōsen".

I say we call it that 🙂 Or 'elemental fan'.

Originally posted by Q99
In Japanese, it's "Bashōsen".

I say we call it that 🙂 Or 'elemental fan'.

I second that.

Again we learn another fact about the 2nd Hokage. They're dropping like flies.

Note: Looks like those Brothers managed to put an end to that alliance since we know Tobirama died against Kumo forces.