Originally posted by Q99
Before they came back together the pieces were about as big as a piece of paper.
I don't put a metal kunai and clay in the same "durability" area. It would take something on scale of a nuclear blast (aka, bijuu blast) to destroy the kunai.)
If not, then we've found another loophole in the writing in Naruto.
Originally posted by Kento
lol I'm safe in America. Otherwise stalker kid may be able to get to me.😛 Either way a Hyuuga wins so its okay.
Amurrica has the highest number of stalker kids. You know this to be true. 313
(Wait, is it someone you are referring to when you say stalker kid?)
Except if Hizashi wins, Kabutomaru wins, so therefore, a Hyuuga does not really win if Hizashi wins.
Originally posted by dadudemon
But that wasn't stated or even remotely implied. This is what I mean by another loophole that wasn't thought of. You have to invent attributes to make it "work", which you shouldn't.
When they're put in, they sort of merge inward rather than the physical effects one would expect though.
Also we have seen seals travel on occasion- a big intricate seal network on Sasuke and the ground around him contracts into a small ring to contain his cursed seal.
So the idea of seals starting out on tags and kunai then leaving them to become attached to something else isn't a new one either.
Originally posted by Q99
When they're put in, they sort of merge inward rather than the physical effects one would expect though.
No "merging" occurs in the way you're implying. Nothing indicates the the talisman dissolves and becomes one with the clay matter.
Originally posted by Q99
Also we have seen seals travel on occasion- a big intricate seal network on Sasuke and the ground around him contracts into a small ring to contain his cursed seal.
This is not a seal: this is a talisman. This is a physical object.
Originally posted by Q99
So the idea of seals starting out on tags and kunai then leaving them to become attached to something else isn't a new one either.
I can't follow what you're saying: it's too confusing.
But what IS new is saying that a metal kunai which is functioning as a talisman is dissolving into clay. That's a new concept.
This is the talisman.
On the kunai is a tag with seal-type writing on it. The kunai itself doesn't seem to have anything unusual about it at all, though it could be chakra-conductive or similar.
Seal writing can move between substances.
Also when it's applied it just glides into the zombie with no resistance or damage as the image shows, as if it was just phasing in, so there's something odd going on physically. The kunai aren't stabbed in, they're somehow just placed in, which is very unusual.
The kunai may be used to deliver it, but I doubt the metal part actually matters more than a little, the seal-text is probably the important part, and it's possibly left the tag once it's in.
The phasing suggests to me there may be merging of sorts, but in any case the seal text on the talisman should be safe.
When it comes to seals, 'physical injury to the writing' doesn't seem to be an issue on disrupting the effect of a completed seal on a person. No-one worries about Naruto or Bee getting a slash in the wrong place disrupting their biju seals.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix😆 No, we have the creepy kids.
Amurrica has the highest number of stalker kids. You know this to be true. 313
(Wait, is it someone you are referring to when you say stalker kid?)Except if Hizashi wins, Kabutomaru wins, so therefore, a Hyuuga does not really win if Hizashi wins.
Hizashi will break the spell Kabutomaru has on him to fight Hiashi fair and square. His Hyuuga seal will break it.
Originally posted by Q99
This is the talisman.On the kunai is a tag with seal-type writing on it. The kunai itself doesn't seem to have anything unusual about it at all, though it could be chakra-conductive or similar.
Seal writing can move between substances.
Also when it's applied it just glides into the zombie with no resistance or damage as the image shows, as if it was just phasing in, so there's something odd going on physically. The kunai aren't stabbed in, they're somehow just placed in, which is very unusual.
The kunai may be used to deliver it, but I doubt the metal part actually matters more than a little, the seal-text is probably the important part, and it's possibly left the tag once it's in.
The phasing suggests to me there may be merging of sorts, but in any case the seal text on the talisman should be safe.
When it comes to seals, 'physical injury to the writing' doesn't seem to be an issue on disrupting the effect of a completed seal on a person. No-one worries about Naruto or Bee getting a slash in the wrong place disrupting their biju seals.
A seal is not a talisman.
A talisman is a physical object.
The end, right?
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelTalisman=The thing attached to the kunai.
I thought it was the whole package?
Orochimaru is more than strong enough to force a piece of paper into the neck/brain stem of a clay resurrection with just his fingers. He could do it much more quickly, as well. Tells me it's the "whole package" and not just a piece of paper with writing on it.
If it is just the piece of paper, that's a much better case for a simple attack that is strong enough to both smash the clone to pieces and burn it up...like an Uchiha fireball.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I thought it was the whole package?Orochimaru is more than strong enough to force a piece of paper into the neck/brain stem of a clay resurrection with just his fingers. He could do it much more quickly, as well. Tells me it's the "whole package" and not just a piece of paper with writing on it.
If it is just the piece of paper, that's a much better case for a simple attack that is strong enough to both smash the clone to pieces and burn it up...like an Uchiha fireball.
Nope.
I dunno why he chose to use only a kunai. But the kunai itself is not important. Nothing written on it would indicate that it matters.
Explosions tend to have fire.
The kunai may be the chakra-transmitting kind so may have some use, but the paper on it's own is technically a talisman.
As for why use it and not just the paper, kunai have handles, paper doesn't. Seems more convenient to me.
Originally posted by dadudemon
If it is just the piece of paper, that's a much better case for a simple attack that is strong enough to both smash the clone to pieces and burn it up...like an Uchiha fireball.
Again, though, seal text can transfer between objects and physical damage to a completed seal doesn't seem to be a worry.
And I'd think the internal bomb would definitely qualify- the pieces only looked big when they were coming back together because they were merging into bigger pieces as they came. Shin was confetti.
Originally posted by Q99
The kunai may be the chakra-transmitting kind so may have some use, but the paper on it's own is technically a talisman.As for why use it and not just the paper, kunai have handles, paper doesn't. Seems more convenient to me.
I think we will have to just meet here (compromise) and leave it at that.
Originally posted by Q99
Again, though, seal text can transfer between objects and physical damage to a completed seal doesn't seem to be a worry.And I'd think the internal bomb would definitely qualify- the pieces only looked big when they were coming back together because they were merging into bigger pieces as they came. Shin was confetti.
But, see, that requires several assumptions:
1. That the talisman writing is similar to a seal in it's attributes.
2. The talisman writing transferred, without being seen to have transferred, similar to other seals.
3. The talisman is absorbed/dissolved by the clay flesh.
Those are assumptions we are not privy to.
A talisman, by default, is not a seal: it's a talisman. The only attribute we have of a talisman is that it is "completed" with a kunai, a string, and a piece of paper. Granted, your insight about the kunai probably being a special material that is chakra sensitive (similar to Asuma's blades) is most likely correct. I don't see why we would need a kunai in the mess when, as we know, Oro is well more than strong enough to insert the "paper" right into the brain stem, with just his fingers. Tells me that the sting, kunai, and the paper with the writing are the "complete package" and you need them all to work it.
Also, I don't think the chunks of Shin would qualify: they are just too big. We don't see much smaller pieces forming the bigger ones that were, in turn, forming Shin. It's just various "Shredded" pieces of clay flesh.
Additionally, Shin's body could have moved the talisman to his feet so Kabuto could maintain control. Additionally, one of the chunks may have, purposefully, concealed the talisman to not reveal the weakness. Furthermore, and this is most likely the correct assumption, Kishi might have forgotten all about the talisman being used for control and ****ed up. I'm more inclined to believe that last one as that fits more in tune with all of the various abandoned plots from Naruto that we've experienced over the years.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Nope.I dunno why he chose to use only a kunai. But the kunai itself is not important. Nothing written on it would indicate that it matters.
Explosions tend to have fire.
My reply to your post would be the same exact one that you quoted, so I won't bore you by requoting myself. You can read my above post to Q99, as well, to gain additional insight into those points.
Also, I would be the great fireball as being more destructive than the grenade-like explosion in Shin's belly.
But, see, that requires several assumptions:1. That the talisman writing is similar to a seal in it's attributes.
2. The talisman writing transferred, without being seen to have transferred, similar to other seals.
3. The talisman is absorbed/dissolved by the clay flesh.Those are assumptions we are not privy to.
It's visibly using seal-type writing, and we see it pass in to the clay flesh in a highly unusual manner.
Evidence strongly points to it being a seal type jutsu.
A talisman, by default, is not a seal: it's a talisman.
A talisman is just a type of object. In fact, talismans are traditionally used in magic, sealing evil, etc. in Japan.
Being a talisman not only doesn't make it not a seal, they're two categories with heavy overlap. Considering also that we see the same type of writing that other seals use, it's safe to say, yea, this is a seal.
Here's some real life Ofuda talismans. They are often but not always attached to things with strings.
I don't see why we would need a kunai in the mess when, as we know, Oro is well more than strong enough to insert the "paper" right into the brain stem, with just his fingers.
Things with handles are easier to hold. Seems simple enough to me, why wouldn't he put it on a kunai? Gets to keep his hands a bit cleaner.
And strength doesn't matter at all- the whole thing just goes in with no resistance. There's even a slurping sound.
Also, I don't think the chunks of Shin would qualify: they are just too big. We don't see much smaller pieces forming the bigger ones that were, in turn, forming Shin. It's just various "Shredded" pieces of clay flesh.
I'll point to what happened with the Kage zombies. Even far lesser explosions reduced the stuff they're made from to pretty much dust.
And at the crater where Shin blew up, at first nothing is visible, and when he's coming together, every part not attached to the body already is, at most, a paper-thin fragment, along with plenty of smaller particles.
Originally posted by dadudemon
My reply to your post would be the same exact one that you quoted, so I won't bore you by requoting myself. You can read my above post to Q99, as well, to gain additional insight into those points.Also, I would be the great fireball as being more destructive than the grenade-like explosion in Shin's belly.
And my reply will be similar to before. Nothing at all indicates that the kunai function as anything more than mere kunai. When Zaku and Kin are revealed after Hiruzen sealed their souls, you couldn't see any kunai. When Shin blew up you didn't see any. When Sasori was talked-no-jutsu you didn't see any, and if I were the SA Ambush Squad, I'd get the talisman so my friends might be able to figure out more details behind Kabuto's seal. It clearly disappears when placed inside them.
Not to Shin. 😐
