The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Personally I actually think that the Sennin could use advance elemental release. He has all the chakra natures, Izanagi, and a near infinite supply of energy thanks to being a biju. He could use the Naruto method and still probably create something.

The next generation surpassing the last isn't really proven IMO. Unless you count Kakashi or Naruto.....or Choji, I haven't really seen it.

Two prime examples I can think of are these:

Onoki>>>>>Deidara

Sasori>>>>>>(current)Kankuro

Tsunade>>>>>>>Sakura

Gai>>>>>>Lee

Hiruzen(prime)>>>>>>any of the Sennin 🙂

It just goes on........I haven't forgotten about my list BTW

It's more than simply being able to use two elemental natures and having lots of chakra. You have to have a certain type of genetic code, and only one person in the history of the entire Naruto-verse has had the ability to use Mokuton with his own DNA. Other elements are, relatively speaking, much more common, but that doesn't say much when the most common type of Advanced release we've seen so far has only been demonstrated in three people.

Maybe the Sage could use one or two types of Advanced Releases, but the Sage using all known Advanced Releases is IMO impossible as we know he was not the progenitor of every single ninja clan out there, and the fact that Mokuton has been unique to only one person's DNA so far.

I too do not believe that every generation will surpass the previous one.
One could argue that people like Sakura will eventually surpass Tsunade as a Ninja, but when the people from Konoha say that the next generation will surpass the previous one, I think they are talking about a 'passing of the torch' type thing, rather than actual strength.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But normal limbs don't work fine (Nagato still can't walk).

The way he's being supported by Itachi suggests that he's capable of using his legs to some degree.

I wonder if Onoki surpassed Muu. I suspect Hiruzen surpassed his teachers.

Nagato did surpass his.

Naruto and Sasuke are the ones really on the fast track of the 'surpassing' front.

Originally posted by Q99
I wonder if Onoki surpassed Muu. I suspect Hiruzen surpassed his teachers.

Nagato did surpass his.

Naruto and Sasuke are the ones really on the fast track of the 'surpassing' front.

Yeah, there are quite a number of examples of students surpassing their teachers in strength and it is something that is brought to prominence by many of the characters we see, but it isn't something set in stone the way those who believe in the Will of Fire think it is.
And I doubt it can be used to argue that S-class ninjas living right now would be superior to S-class ninjas that existed in the past.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
And I doubt it can be used to argue that S-class ninjas living right now would be superior to S-class ninjas that existed in the past.

I disagree. I think that is exactly what it means and there are very few exceptions.

I believe WakkaWakka's list is actually just about it.

Oro definitely surpassed Hiruzan Prime. That's just my opinion due to the versitility of his Jutsus. Without the shinigami, even prime Hiruzen would have fallen to Oro, imo.

Naruto was said to surpass his father AND Jiraiya. Naruto only surpassed his father in his Rasengan techs and Jiraiya in his Sage techs.

Sasuke definitely surpassed his father and just about everyone else.

Oro surpassed not only Hiruzan but also the Second Hokage. Hiruzen definitely surpassed the first and second.

Sakura is on the fast track to surpassing Tsunade.

Choji surpassed his father, already.

Shikamaru appears to be about equal with his father despite being (seemingly) much lazier.

Kakashi surpassed his father a long time ago (mostly because of his eye.)

Neji greatly surpassed his father. In fact, Neji might have done that as a Gennin.

Bee definitely surpassed the previous hosts.

In fact, the list includes just about every single ninja that has a generational reference point. The exceptions were listed.

But, I believe you or someone pointed out that it appears to just be limited to the Konoha nin. That's probably what that was referencing. I don't think it's a "torch passing" concept because the word is not "passing" but "surpassing."

I still think that the Sage was not nearly as strong as people make him out to be. Dividing the chakra up and creating the moon is a massive feat but he was also easily a master over the Juubi. There's also the problem of the moon being created. The consensus is: life could not exist on the earth with the moon. It's most likely "legend" and he really didn't create the moon. Other than fairly obvious logic based on the real world, it's baseless to say he didn't create the moon and it's leglend (let's make that clear).

I don't see the Sage as anything great. Even if he did create the moon, the fact that it appears to take quite a while makes him easily killed by any ninja with decent speed. We can assume that most techniques are not known to the Sage. He didn't invent everything. In fact, he probably invented very little jutsus or ninja techs.

Random Love Letter Guy is my new favorite character.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I still think that the Sage was not nearly as strong as people make him out to be. Dividing the chakra up and creating the moon is a massive feat but he was also easily a master over the Juubi. There's also the problem of the moon being created. The consensus is: life could not exist on the earth with the moon. It's most likely "legend" and he really didn't create the moon. Other than fairly obvious logic based on the real world, it's baseless to say he didn't create the moon and it's leglend (let's make that clear).

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't see the Sage as anything great. Even if he did create the moon, the fact that it appears to take quite a while makes him easily killed by any ninja with decent speed. We can assume that most techniques are not known to the Sage. He didn't invent everything. In fact, he probably invented very little jutsus or ninja techs.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree. I think that is exactly what it means and there are very few exceptions.

I believe WakkaWakka's list is actually just about it.

Oro definitely surpassed Hiruzan Prime. That's just my opinion due to the versitility of his Jutsus. Without the shinigami, even prime Hiruzen would have fallen to Oro, imo.

No evidence for this really.
For one, we don't know how strong Prime Hiruzen was, except that the Hiruzen we saw was just a shadow compared to Prime.
Secondly, it wasn't really Orochimaru fighting for most of the battle, but the two Hokages, but meh, I suppose it's fairly moot.
Thirdly, if it weren't for Hiruzen's low stamina, he would have beaten Orochimaru, but he obviously would have died in the process.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Naruto was said to surpass his father AND Jiraiya. Naruto only surpassed his father in his Rasengan techs and Jiraiya in his Sage techs.

Agreed.
Once Naruto masters his new mode and the new Rasengan, I'd wager he'd be outright stronger than the both of them.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Sasuke definitely surpassed his father and just about everyone else.

We have no idea if he's surpassed Itachi yet though. MS Sasuke has most definitely not surpassed Itachi in terms of overall skill.
EMS Sasuke is an unknown.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oro surpassed not only Hiruzan but also the Second Hokage. Hiruzen definitely surpassed the first and second.

At his Prime perhaps. Hashirama had Tailed Beasts under his power at one point though, so I don't think Hiruzen is stronger than that version of Hashirama.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Sakura is on the fast track to surpassing Tsunade.

Agreed. She isn't there yet though, and probably won't be for a while.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Choji surpassed his father, already.

At best, they are about equals now. This is another one of those 'passing of the torch' instances.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Shikamaru appears to be about equal with his father despite being (seemingly) much lazier.

Nah. For one, Shikamaru isn't as smart as his father, and for another, his father likely knows more Shadow techs. He might even have a higher chakra level.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Kakashi surpassed his father a long time ago (mostly because of his eye.)

Agreed. But I will point out that we do not know how good Sakumo was, and that he was as famous as the Sannin were.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Neji greatly surpassed his father. In fact, Neji might have done that as a Gennin.

He has surpassed his father, but he's still below Hiashi IMO, as is Hinata.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Bee definitely surpassed the previous hosts.

Agreed, but he hasn't surpassed Raikage. awesome

Originally posted by dadudemon
But, I believe you or someone pointed out that it appears to just be limited to the Konoha nin. That's probably what that was referencing. I don't think it's a "torch passing" concept because the word is not "passing" but "surpassing."

Meh, I think it might be a generalization, and that it would encompass both a torch passing and a surpassing in strength in certain cases. The Will of Fire is about protecting everyone else and the next generation so that they can then take over.

Besides, we both know that 'surpassing' doesn't necessarily have to mean overall strength.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I still think that the Sage was not nearly as strong as people make him out to be. Dividing the chakra up and creating the moon is a massive feat but he was also easily a master over the Juubi. There's also the problem of the moon being created. The consensus is: life could not exist on the earth with the moon. It's most likely "legend" and he really didn't create the moon. Other than fairly obvious logic based on the real world, it's baseless to say he didn't create the moon and it's leglend (let's make that clear).

I don't see the Sage as anything great. Even if he did create the moon, the fact that it appears to take quite a while makes him easily killed by any ninja with decent speed. We can assume that most techniques are not known to the Sage. He didn't invent everything. In fact, he probably invented very little jutsus or ninja techs.

Yeah, while life wouldn't exist on our planet without the Moon, we have no idea whether the Naruto world operates the same way. For all we know, Earth in Naruto verse could be that of the Flat-Model. Or that the creation of the Moon shaped the Naruto World into what it is today.
Both Madara and Nagato made reference to the Sage creating the Moon, and they are the only ones in the current generation to have fully read his Tablet, which was basically his biography, so I think there's a fair chance that he actually created the Moon, when he was nearly dead.

Naruto in 6 Tailed mode had more than decent speed. But even he couldn't overcome the gravity of Nagato's much weaker Chibaku Tensei (and 6 Tailed Kyuubi was earlier able to overcome Shinra Tensei). There's a lot of gravitational force at work, and I doubt any ninja with decent speed would be able to take out the Sage once the sphere is out.

Then there's his Izanagi which allowed him to create and turn reality to illusions. So basically he can invalidate his death for as long as the tech is active, which should be near unlimited as
a) He would have the largest known chakra reserve
b) He has the Rinnegan, which based on how he used Izanagi multiple times, does not shut when Izanagi is used.

I think his ability to use izanagi must have been nearly limitless, with that combination. Making him almost godlike.

At his Prime perhaps. Hashirama had Tailed Beasts under his power at one point though, so I don't think Hiruzen is stronger than that version of Hashirama.

I'd suspect Hiruzen was more powerful than him when there didn't happen to be any tailed beasts around 🙂

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No evidence for this really.
For one, we don't know how strong Prime Hiruzen was, except that the Hiruzen we saw was just a shadow compared to Prime.
Secondly, it wasn't really Orochimaru fighting for most of the battle, but the two Hokages, but meh, I suppose it's fairly moot.
Thirdly, if it weren't for Hiruzen's low stamina, he would have beaten Orochimaru, but he obviously would have died in the process.

Prime Sarutobi didn't have the death god tech, remember? 🙂 The Yondaime taught him that.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
We have no idea if he's surpassed Itachi yet though. MS Sasuke has most definitely not surpassed Itachi in terms of overall skill. EMS Sasuke is an unknown.

Itachi is not another generation, though. He's only a few years older than Sasuke. He was 21 when he died. I'd say that he was between Sasuke's generation and Kakashi's generation (duh, right? lol). Those are the "two" definitive generations we see in Naruto. Each generation is usually "viewed" in the manga as the squad leader and the genin. The Second to Hiruzen, Hiruzen to Jiraiya, Jiraiya to Minato, Minato to Kakashi, and Kakashi to Naruto.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
At his Prime perhaps. Hashirama had Tailed Beasts under his power at one point though, so I don't think Hiruzen is stronger than that version of Hashirama.

I dunno. That's debatable (obviously). We just don't know enough. As far as smarts, knowledge, and versatility, yeah, Sarutobi sounds to be much further ahead than both the first or second.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
At best, they are about equals now. This is another one of those 'passing of the torch' instances.

I disagree based on his last feat. If they were equals, then his father would have "ended" things quickly, as well. He didn't and it was in his best interest to do so. So, at best, his father is not nearly as strong as the full power version of his son.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Nah. For one, Shikamaru isn't as smart as his father, and for another, his father likely knows more Shadow techs. He might even have a higher chakra level.

I disagree. I think he's already smarter than his father. Sakura said Shikimaru was the smartest in Konoha (but that was shipuuden, only.)

Also, by feats alone, he is stronger than his father.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Agreed. But I will point out that we do not know how good Sakumo was, and that he was as famous as the Sannin were.

We do know: he was around as strong as the Sannin, from one quote we saw.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He has surpassed his father, but he's still below Hiashi IMO, as is Hinata.

Since he wasn't taught the main-line's techs but figure some out, that already puts him in a league of his own. Even Hiashi was shocked that he figured that out.

The last databook shows there to be a 3 point difference between them, overall. The major difference is a 2 point difference in hand seals. Neji is actually .5 faster than Hiashi.

If they were to fight, it would be tough to determine who the winner would be. I give the nod to Neji only because of his apparent “genius.”

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Agreed, but he hasn't surpassed Raikage. awesome

Same generation, dewd. 😄

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Meh, I think it might be a generalization, and that it would encompass both a torch passing and a surpassing in strength in certain cases. The Will of Fire is about protecting everyone else and the next generation so that they can then take over.

I would say that it is "most" cases and the torch isn't really passed until they surpass them.

The Yondaime, despite probably being less knowledgably than Hiruzen, probably could beat a prime Hiruzen just because of how potent his techs were.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Besides, we both know that 'surpassing' doesn't necessarily have to mean overall strength.

I disagree, in the context of Naruto. I believe it has to be both.

If you made the case to me that it refers to the older gen getting weaker as they age and the younger gen finally passing them, I may partially agree to that. But, still, in the context of Naruto, they are showing a clear "surpassing."

About the "legends" of the past: even Shikaku said that the legends of the past are exaggerated (in his pep talk to the "new" ino-shika-cho).

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, while life wouldn't exist on our planet without the Moon, we have no idea whether the Naruto world operates the same way. For all we know, Earth in Naruto verse could be that of the Flat-Model. Or that the creation of the Moon shaped the Naruto World into what it is today.

I agree. I don't think 12 year old boys in Japan are generally aware of how important the moon is to life on earth, so Kishimoto can get away with it.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Both Madara and Nagato made reference to the Sage creating the Moon, and they are the only ones in the current generation to have fully read his Tablet, which was basically his biography, so I think there's a fair chance that he actually created the Moon, when he was nearly dead.

No, the tablet was mostly about techs, not his complete biography. It gave a very brief overview of his biography, imo.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Naruto in 6 Tailed mode had more than decent speed. But even he couldn't overcome the gravity of Nagato's much weaker Chibaku Tensei (and 6 Tailed Kyuubi was earlier able to overcome Shinra Tensei). There's a lot of gravitational force at work, and I doubt any ninja with decent speed would be able to take out the Sage once the sphere is out.

That's quite obviously PIS. Remove PIS of the Kyuubi sitting there growling and, instead, running at the body and we have a different outcome.

Someone much more ruthless and to the point, like Kakashi, would have taken care of this "concentrating" Pain.

I doubt it if he could pull off that tech with just about any upper A class or S class ninja because of the concentration and time it takes.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Then there's his Izanagi which allowed him to create and turn reality to illusions. So basically he can invalidate his death for as long as the tech is active, which should be near unlimited as
a) He would have the largest known chakra reserve
b) He has the Rinnegan, which based on how he used Izanagi multiple times, does not shut when Izanagi is used.

There's no way to prove that Izanagi worked, at all, beyond Madara's words.

Additionally, his form of Izanagi was a creation version, not a "save-my-own-life-with-illusion-substitutions" version. He would basically create life from chakra, is how it was explained. It was a form of Izanagi, not the one Danzo was using.

As an example of the difference, he couldn't save himself from death. He should have been able to create a new, young, perfect body and then transferred his soul to it...but he couldn't. Another example: he used chakra to create the 9 demons, which were "creatures."

Originally posted by King Kandy
Isn't the whole reason why the "infinite tsukuyomi" is supposed to work, because the body of the ten tails is within the moon? I would say that is proof that the moon feat is legit. I mean, I guess you could say that Madara hasn't used that technique yet, but everyone takes it pretty damn seriously.

No, the moon's eye plan is reflecting the illusion off the moon to everyone on earth. The juubi's body being in there is only coincidental.

Originally posted by King Kandy
How could he be killed, when Izanagi can reduce his death to an illusion?

Addressed this already: that's not the same Izanagi.

The Izanagi is a poor-man's version of the "Creation of All Things," what the Sage used. Which literally created something from nothing, making him an effective reality warper.

And no other ninja has a feat like defeating and sealing the Jubi inside himself and sealing its body in the moon.

We don't know exactly how strong the Sage was, but it is more than safe to assume that the Shinobi who was worshipped like a God and sealed the Naruto equivelant of Cthulhu is stronger than anyone in the series shown. 😐

I would like to bring up something else about the Sennin. IIRC both the Senju, Uchiha,along with pretty much every national bloodline limit was somewhat contribruted by the Sennin to some degree. If that's true, then he could simply use the Naruto method and randomly create justu like I stated before......of course it'd be impossible for him to create every jutsu in the book.
Now it's time for my list that I said I would make.
Based solely on who I think belongs in each category I'm going to try and rank the top characters (I'm only going from A- to SSS BTW):

SSS:
Rikudo Sennin

SS:
Madara(current)
Nagato

S+:
Harishima Senju
Minato Namikaze
Itachi Uchiha
Tobirama Senju
Kisame(w/samehada)
Muu
Onoki
Killer Bee
Hiruzen(prime)

S:
Madara(pre-Rinnegan)
Orochimaru
Jiraiya
Sasuke(pre-EMS/after kage summit fight)
Danzo(sharingans)
Kakashi(current)
Gaara(Shukaku)
Hiruzen(old)
Sasori
Deidara
Mei Terumi
Kakuzu
Naruto(Sage prep)
Konan
Gaara(current)
Might Gai(current)
Kisame(w/o samehada)
Sasuke(start of Taka)
Hanzo(w/jutsu)

S-:
Chiyo
Tsunade
Kakashi(start of part II)
Sasuke(Hebi)
Danzo(base)
Hidan
Kabuto (Orochimaru fushion)
Kinkaku
Ginkaku
Darui
Might Gai (start of part 2)
Kitsuchi
Mifune
Hanzo(w/o jutsu)

A+:
Kimimaro (healthy)
Kakashi(part 1)
Sasuke (start of part 2)
Hiashi Hyuga
Hizashi Hyuga(not sure really)
Kabuto (part 1)
Zabuza
Yamato

A:
Kabuto(current)
Shikaku Nara
Neji(current)
Kurenai
Jugo
Suigetsu
Fu
Torune
Might Gai(part 1)
Azuma Sarutobi

A-:
Temari(start of part II)
Gaara(Sasuke retrieval arc)
Inoichi Yamanaka
Choji Akimichi(current)
Naruto(start of part 2)
Shizune
Choza Akimichi
Sai(introduction)
Ibiki

I might have forgotten some people but until next time.

The sage's technique is described as "the ability to bring imagination to life:"

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/11.html

Here, Karin explains how Danzo's ability is just another manifestation of this principle. Danzo can make life an illusion, but he can also make his own attacks connect, by making his imagination of them a reality:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/2.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/3.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/4.html

Sure seems like the same thing to me (though the sage obviously had more advanced capabilities with the "creative" aspects).

Originally posted by King Kandy
The sage's technique is described as "the ability to bring imagination to life:"

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c510/11.html

Here, Karin explains how Danzo's ability is just another manifestation of this principle. Danzo can make life an illusion, but he can also make his own attacks connect, by making his imagination of them a reality:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/2.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/3.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v51/c479/4.html

Sure seems like the same thing to me (though the sage obviously had more advanced capabilities with the "creative" aspects).

Instead of adhering to what is obviously an extreme exaggeration of the ability, I stick to what it actually was seen doing.

It's not this magical ability like Madara describes. If it is the magical ability that some are making it out to be, then both Madara and Danzo lack extreme amounts of imagination..........OR.....it's just as I said it was: the one Danzo and Madara use is the "save-my-own-life-with-illusion-substitutions" version. That differs from the one the sage used. The Sage would basically create life from chakra, is how it was explained. And at that, it was limited as I explained.

Well, in other words, what I originally said on the subject is my response to your post because what you posted above is technically what quite specifically responding to.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I would like to bring up something else about the Sennin. IIRC both the Senju, Uchiha,along with pretty much every national bloodline limit was somewhat contribruted by the Sennin to some degree. If that's true, then he could simply use the Naruto method and randomly create justu like I stated before......of course it'd be impossible for him to create every jutsu in the book.
Now it's time for my list that I said I would make.
Based solely on who I think belongs in each category I'm going to try and rank the top characters (I'm only going from A- to SSS BTW):

SSS:
Rikudo Sennin

SS:
Madara(current)
Nagato

S+:
Harishima Senju
Minato Namikaze
Itachi Uchiha
Tobirama Senju
Kisame(w/samehada)
Muu
Onoki
Killer Bee
Hiruzen(prime)

S:
Madara(pre-Rinnegan)
Orochimaru
Jiraiya
Sasuke(pre-EMS/after kage summit fight)
Danzo(sharingans)
Kakashi(current)
Gaara(Shukaku)
Hiruzen(old)
Sasori
Deidara
Mei Terumi
Kakuzu
Naruto(Sage prep)
Konan
Gaara(current)
Might Gai(current)
Kisame(w/o samehada)
Sasuke(start of Taka)
Hanzo(w/jutsu)

S-:
Chiyo
Tsunade
Kakashi(start of part II)
Sasuke(Hebi)
Danzo(base)
Hidan
Kabuto (Orochimaru fushion)
Kinkaku
Ginkaku
Darui
Might Gai (start of part 2)
Kitsuchi
Mifune
Hanzo(w/o jutsu)

A+:
Kimimaro (healthy)
Kakashi(part 1)
Sasuke (start of part 2)
Hiashi Hyuga
Hizashi Hyuga(not sure really)
Kabuto (part 1)
Zabuza
Yamato

A:
Kabuto(current)
Shikaku Nara
Neji(current)
Kurenai
Jugo
Suigetsu
Fu
Torune
Might Gai(part 1)
Azuma Sarutobi

A-:
Temari(start of part II)
Gaara(Sasuke retrieval arc)
Inoichi Yamanaka
Choji Akimichi(current)
Naruto(start of part 2)
Shizune
Choza Akimichi
Sai(introduction)
Ibiki

I might have forgotten some people but until next time.

I'd say that Naruto with Sage Prep is quite comfortable in S+ considering the different in how far Kakashi and Naruto got in their fights with Nagato. I'd put Sage Mode Naruto as somewhere inbetween all of those listed in S+ and the SS category.

I'd put Minato is the SS category. He took on a full powered Kyuubi and a powerful version of Madara at the same time. I'd say that Minato is the lowest possible level required for SS with Naruto falling just outside of SS in Sage Mode.

Originally posted by dadudemon

I'd put Minato is the SS category. He took on a full powered Kyuubi and a powerful version of Madara at the same time.

You say that like they were fighting side-by-side.

He broke Madara's control over Kyuubi by fighting Madara, but Kyuubi didn't really go after him while he was fighting Tobi. The other ninja were mostly fighting Kyuubi, except at the parts where he wasn't fighting Madara.

Originally posted by Q99
You say that like they were fighting side-by-side.

He broke Madara's control over Kyuubi by fighting Madara, but Kyuubi didn't really go after him while he was fighting Tobi. The other ninja were mostly fighting Kyuubi, except at the parts where he wasn't fighting Madara.

Is there anyone that can take on a full-powered Kyuubi blast?

Here's the list:

Madara because of his teleportation ability.

Minato because of his awesomeness.

Preta Path but that could be too much for him to absorb so this guy is an "iffy."

How many people could defeat Madara in that form he was in? The list is very very short. Madara was disarmed and defeated. The only other person to do that was the first hokage. The first is supposedly legendarily strong.

How many could do both of those things? That list has got to be....what...2 people short? Madara and Minato are the only two that could have done both of those things.

I am not set in my ways: I am willing to be unconvinced of my ways if you can show me another person that could have done the same (or better).

Originally posted by dadudemon
Instead of adhering to what is obviously an extreme exaggeration of the ability, I stick to what it actually was seen doing.

It's not this magical ability like Madara describes. If it is the magical ability that some are making it out to be, then both Madara and Danzo lack extreme amounts of imagination....

Originally posted by dadudemon
Is there anyone that can take on a full-powered Kyuubi blast?

Here's the list:

Madara because of his teleportation ability.

Minato because of his awesomeness.

Preta Path but that could be too much for him to absorb so this guy is an "iffy."

How many people could defeat Madara in that form he was in? The list is very very short. Madara was disarmed and defeated. The only other person to do that was the first hokage. The first is supposedly legendarily strong.

How many could do both of those things? That list has got to be....what...2 people short? Madara and Minato are the only two that could have done both of those things.

I am not set in my ways: I am willing to be unconvinced of my ways if you can show me another person that could have done the same (or better).

Originally posted by King Kandy
Samehada may be able to absorb it. I think Danzou would actually have been a strong match up against the pair (especially if he had Shisui's eye active). And perhaps limited ability to control Bijuu?

I don't think Samehada can absorb it fast enough to prevent it's own destruction. It seems to do it very quickly, but it's not instant...based on the B fight.

I think Danzou would be able to avoid death from the two, for a while, but he doesn't have anyway to wrestle the Bijuu free, fight the Bijuu, AND fight Madara. He doesn't have anything strong enough to hurt or kill the Kyuubi.

Is there anyone that can take on a full-powered Kyuubi blast?

Kakashi might be able to kamui it away, possibly Deva Pain's strongest gravity blast might do too. Killerbee and other high-tail hosts might be able to largely cancel it out with a blast of their own. And Itachi's Susano'o shield.

Those're the ones I can think of.

Some could avoid it or survive it through various means. Like I think A could likely avoid getting hit.