That ending sucks because Bee and A aren't in it!!!
Aside from that, this was a very decent chapter. I'm wonder if we're ever going to see the Kakashi vs Zabuza rematch because I really want to see it now. Wonder what Tsunade and A have planned as far as detaining goes.
Also, did zombie Chiyo kill Kankuro yet?
K...so wait...
Didn't we already KNOW about the Zetsu ability? Didn't the shinobi alliance also already know about that white zetsu ability? I'm not even kidding a little bit. That's what I thought his "major" aiblity was and I could have SWORN some of you even talked about that as a potential "tactic" he could employ during the war.
How in the world do we, as outside viewers, come to that conclusion, and the characters inside the universe (which know the same thing we do) NOT know that?
Seriously...wtf?
I thought that they would have had a contingency plan for that ability and accounted for it.
This didn't happen just once: it happened twice. Didn't Sakura even mention the 4 kage summit thing, too?
WHAT AM I MISSING? I think I'm having a brain fart because it seems like I'm missing something big.
Originally posted by NemeBro
We kinda already saw that.
I don't think we saw an actually ending....did we?
dadudemon: Yeah...I agree, they found this out with the whole Kisame fiasco, so why don't they do something simply like have a password or carry a card instead of using detection methods they know the enemy can already get around.
I mean, aside from Edo Zombies, who else were they expecting to show up?
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Also, did zombie Chiyo kill Kankuro yet?
No, but Hanzo gassed him so he was temporarily out of action.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Didn't we already KNOW about the Zetsu ability? Didn't the shinobi alliance also already know about that white zetsu ability? I'm not even kidding a little bit. That's what I thought his "major" aiblity was and I could have SWORN some of you even talked about that as a potential "tactic" he could employ during the war.
There's a big difference between using it on your own people and using it en mass on people you haven't met and getting it right down to the chakra.
Iirc most suggestions I heard here were on using it to copy some of their own ninja to raise the variety of Zetsu battle power.
The big question is, "How do you copy a whole bunch of enemy ninja down to their chakra?"
And well, now we know 🙂 It was rather clever, stealing chakra and then having the ones who do so retreat or play dead to avoid being killed.
But doing that without the draining thing would've been nigh-impossible, and anyone assuming they could just do it without such draining would've been making a massive assumption.
Without the chakra draining during the previous day's battle, even if they transformed they would've been caught by the sensors easily.
WHAT AM I MISSING? I think I'm having a brain fart because it seems like I'm missing something big.
Yea, you are 🙂
The above bit on the missing 'how do you copy enemies?' step.
wakkawakkawakka
dadudemon: Yeah...I agree, they found this out with the whole Kisame fiasco, so why don't they do something simply like have a password or carry a card instead of using detection methods they know the enemy can already get around.
If you can do what Zetsu are doing, those'd be easy enough to get around anyway considering the numbers involved.
One other thing I'll note, they first found out there was an army of Zetsus about one and a half days ago I think. Before that, it was something that as far as they knew the ability existed, but was something only one being could do. They might've noted the split in half thing, but still, that'd make them think there was a rather small number of Zetsus.
So yea, they knew that it existed, but they were lacking in multiple crucial facts to indicate it'd be such a big threat, that is 'how one copies enemies,' and 'we'll have to face more than one of these punks'.
Originally posted by Q99
There's a big difference between using it on your own people and using it en mass on people you haven't met and getting it right down to the chakra.Iirc most suggestions I heard here were on using it to copy some of their own ninja to raise the variety of Zetsu battle power.
The big question is, "How do you copy a whole bunch of enemy ninja down to their chakra?"
And well, now we know 🙂 It was rather clever, stealing chakra and then having the ones who do so retreat or play dead to avoid being killed.
But doing that without the draining thing would've been nigh-impossible, and anyone assuming they could just do it without such draining would've been making a massive assumption.
Without the chakra draining during the previous day's battle, even if they transformed they would've been caught by the sensors easily.
Yea, you are 🙂
The above bit on the missing 'how do you copy enemies?' step.
I don't think there's any difference at all in what I thought it was, what was shown with Kisame, and what we saw in this last chapter.
So, not, I didn't miss anything. You did not enlighten me to something new.
Case-in-point: Kisame already has 30% of his chakra transferred to another body. That body fought Guy.
We saw a substitute that resembled Kisame, later on, that was a White Zetsu. It reverted form when killed.
How did it do so? I assume that same way as before: Kisame gave it some of his chakra.
We also know the White Zetsu can "suck" chakra.
So, no, everything you've talked about is something we the reader already knew.
My point still stands. My question was rhetorical. The "big thing" I was missing was supposed to be "poor writing" or "CIS", not something that I actually missed because I did not miss anything.
Case in point: what did we learn this chapter about White Zetsu? He can absorb the chakra of others, he can morph into other bodies, and he can use...the...two...together. What did we know from previous chapters? He could absorb chakra and he could morph into other bodies. The only thing we did not know, but we still just assumed when speculating before this great shinobi war began, was White Zetsu could just "be" other people. What's changed since our speculation? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. What happened? What we speculated about.
What happened? What we speculated about.
I don't recall anyone speculating the direct attacks we saw were largely an attempt to get Zetsu close enough to drain chakra for later assassinations disguised as often still active members of the alliance.
We had some vaguely-close speculation, but no, we didn't speculate this tactic in advance I'm pretty sure, just other uses of the copy ability.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Originally posted by Q99
I don't recall anyone speculating the direct attacks we saw were largely an attempt to get Zetsu close enough to drain chakra for later assassinations disguised as often still active members of the alliance.
None of that's necessary for what was the actual goal.
What was speculated and what occured: copying and tricking others by making himself "others."
That's what happened, that's what we speculated would happen. The end?
Originally posted by Q99
We had some vaguely-close speculation, but no, we didn't speculate this tactic in advance I'm pretty sure, just other uses of the copy ability.Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
"Vaguely-close"? I don't think so. It was spot on. It was so close in exactly what did happen that there's pretty much no difference. The only difference is he took chakra from the "orignals" to get past the sensors. That may seem like a major difference to you but it's not a difference at all, to me: functionally, they had all "knowledge" of what he could do, including the chakra stealing. It was just crappy writing or in-universe stupidity. It's one or the other, not a third option.
Originally posted by Nephthys
😬The chakra stealing is the entire technique. It's exactly why they can't track him. It very much is a big deal. Its not bad writing at all. They didn't know what the **** was going on with the Kisame clone at all (the one team 8 fought), and when he died he didn't transform into a white zetsu.
Wrong, he DID transform into a White Zetsu. They even talked about it.
I've already outlined why it's not that big of a deal because: they already knew he could take chakra and they already knew he could mimic people to an impossible degree.
What's left? fusing his body with that chakra, just like they had ALREADY seen Akatsuki down in the past.
So, what did we learn that's new? Nothing. What was brought to the table to mitigate that? Nothing.
What did we say would happen? Exactly what happened. Sure, we didn't say that the chakra stolen from others would be perfectly fused to bypass the sensor ninja, but we did not know they could be used like that until this latest chapter.
If I may be so bold as to interject....Madara has tricked the SA in more ways than just what we see on the surface.
Team Kakashi defeats Itachi Uchiha while Team Guy defeats Kisame Hoshigaki.
Note that in both scenarios it fits Kisame's description here.
What the SA forces know is this: Akatsuki is in possession of a technique that allows them to make identical clones of other shinobi. They do not, as far as I can recall, know that Zetsu is the key to this technique. Now the original technique used to stall Team Guy and Kakashi required a sacrifice. Whether this is a different technique or a variation on the one Zetsu uses is rather unimportant.
So yes, they know it is possible for clones to be made via an undetectable transformation technique. However, they did not know that Zetsu was the key to it. Since they did not know that Zetsu was behind the transformation technique, they would not likely connect the dots to see Madara's plan: Allow the Zetsu to gather chakra during the day, attack at night via transformations.
Sakura did manage to figure it out once Zetsu said this. A technique that would allow someone to perfectly replicate the chakra of another and allow for infiltration. Because Zetsu revealed it was his technique, the answer was obvious. The enemies they were fighting before drained their chakra during the day(the one thing they knew for a fact Zetsu could do) and became their enemy at night. Sakura just happened to be the one to figure it all out.
So nah, all of it fits to me. 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
"Vaguely-close"? I don't think so. It was spot on. It was so close in exactly what did happen that there's pretty much no difference. The only difference is he took chakra from the "orignals" to get past the sensors. That may seem like a major difference to you but it's not a difference at all, to me: functionally, they had all "knowledge" of what he could do, including the chakra stealing. It was just crappy writing or in-universe stupidity. It's one or the other, not a third option.
'The only difference is the one that actually allowed it to work' -that is a pretty gigantic difference.
Without that step, all he's good for is making confusion on where enemies are by copying their people, but not doing assassination strikes like this.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Where did this knowledge of Zetsu's abilities come from? I ish confused...
You explained it well in my opinion.
The only fact the Shinobi Forces definitely knew about White Zetsu's abilities was that he could drain chakra, which he did at the Kage Summit.
Kisame never explicitly mentioned that it was WHite Zetsu that had transformed into himself underwater, nor did anyone see the White Zetsu clone after it had been dealt with by A & Bee.
However, Kisame did use the words 'Parasitic Clone', and White Zetsu had earlier acted as a Parasite during the Kage Summit. Therefore, a conclusion could have been drawn by reading Yamato's report, but it would have been quite a reach in my opinion.
Now, they did know that Akatsuki had a transformation tech, but that required a sacrifice, not chakra draining.
We also know that it was Nagato's tech, and that the originals had to remain focused while said technique was active, but that's irrelevant, as we are discussing this with regards to the characters themselves.
So yeah, when White Zetsu told her that only he had a transformation technique like that, everything fell into place.
~ That said, Naruto's about the only one who can detect the transformation, thanks to his ability to detect negative emotions while using the Kyuubi's Chakra.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Where did this knowledge of Zetsu's abilities come from? I ish confused...
Hm, yea, come to think of it, did they ever *learn* how Kisame faked his death? We did, but they buried the body when it still looked like Kisame, and Kisame merely said his fake "was a unique type of clone," not that it was Zetsu. For all they knew, it was a Kisame special ability.
I may have been overestimating how much they knew of the technique. Zetsu never showed it at the Kage summit, and Kisame's survival was never linked to Zetsu.
So we got new info to *us*- how exactly the Zetsu are going to get the chakra for transformations to sneak in, the critical piece- as well as the characters not having as much information as we did.
*Edit* Ninja'd by Demonic Phoenix 🙂
Originally posted by Q99
Hm, yea, come to think of it, did they ever *learn* how Kisame faked his death? We did, but they buried the body when it still looked like Kisame, and Kisame merely said his fake "was a unique type of clone," not that it was Zetsu. For all they knew, it was a Kisame special ability.
No they didn't.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c505/11.html
EDIT: Just saw your edit. Disregard my post. >__>
Most so-called 'contradictions' in Naruto really stem from people either assuming characters have knowledge they don't, or people assuming abilities can do stuff that haven't been shown yet 🙂
Even knowing about the draining and such, I assumed the ones like the one who drained Neji was dead. Faking their deaths was clever.
This was an impressive move on their part.