Originally posted by Q99
Jiraiya's a 4.5 anyway.Also, Kabuto was able to keep away from Madara when Madara lept at him.
I like where this is going.
So you support my argument that she's no better than a 4.
I think she's better suited at a 3.5. She's not slow...has not speed feats except for flying in paper form. But I just can't see her being less than a 4.
Originally posted by Q99
And it was done from point blank so it doesn't matter it's travel time, it still was a very quick jutsu, she switched from attack to blocking it in a moment.
Well, actually, it does matter in the most direct way possible. And it wasn't even close to point blank. There's quite a distance from the two of them. And in the anime, it wasn't a very "fast" moving fireball/wave. The uchihah great fireball is faster...but still not very fast.
And that moment was definitely quite a long moment: it's not a speed feat, at all. I would consider it a decent defense feat...but it's not even a great defense feat, either.
Originally posted by Q99
That she was hit by Jiraiya hardly means she's super-slow and easily blitzed. Tsunade's a 3.5 and hits Orochimaru, a 4.5. Hidan's a 3.5 and hit Asuma, a 4.5.
That she was hit by a base form Jiraiya means she's definitely too slow for speedsters.
And you're listing a non-prime Oro, BTW. And Asuma was in quite the sh*tty situation against someone that had quite awesome taijutsu.
None of the examples you listed are any good.
Originally posted by Q99
Even if you're right about her being a 3.5, you're still wrong in it meaning she's horribly vulnerable to speed. Like I said before, Naruto speed doesn't work that way. It takes a 5 to blitz a 3.5.
I disagree. She's directly vulnerable to speed and that's how she's been "beaten" every time.
Lastly, I now think she's a 3 in speed.
Originally posted by Q99
In any case, getting hit in one fight (where she did not actually dodge- it was not a failed attempt to move out of the way after all, more likely it was a false assumption the paper formed'd protect her. Too used to being invulnerable, in short, a definite mistake) doesn't change she has shown good reflexes in another.Take a look at 3rd Raikage- he's clearly shown high-speed dodging last chapter. He is very hard to hit when he wants to be. Gaara hit him *twice* and Temari at least twice too.
Does this mean that Raikage isn't fast? He's been hit by more things than Konan has, and defended against fewer.
Yeah, cause "dying" was certainly what she wanted. Also, disobeying the rule of "killing" the invader was also on he mind.
Nice try, but that's a very poor argument. She has no "good" reflex feats, at all.
Lastly, on the Raikage: there's a difference between being fast enough to hit a speedster and tricking them. Gaara tricked them out of their sight. Konan was directly in front of Jiraiya and was looking right at him AND in the direction the attack came. In order for your comparison to even remotely make sense, the Raikage would have to be staring right at Gaara as Gaara released an attack right from his person.
I consider reacting to attacks, when physical movement is required, to be a speed issue.
I consider using the proper counter to an attack to be an intelligence issue...but ultra fast attacks can also require better speed and/or taijutsu.
What about you?
Originally posted by Q99
Her life wasn't on the line, Jiraiya wasn't out for her blood. While she was to kill him given the opportunity, she had backup coming in a moment, all she really had to do was delay him.
He wasn't? Cause I thought he was going to kill and even said so. /sarcasm
Additionally, all he had to do to kill her, at that point, was release the spikes in his hair...similar to what was done to the animal summon.
Originally posted by Q99
In one fight, she was out for blood and protecting Nagato's dream. In another fight, her stated goal is to hold him off, with Pain suggesting taking the foe out if the opportunity comes out, and they talk about the old days. Which sounds more serious to you?
Both sound serious since her life was on the line and backup was not set to get there for a few more moments.
You tell me: one she is about to lose her life, the other, she is trying to take a life.
🙂
Originally posted by Q99
She wasn't purposefully losing, but c'mon, seriously? Are you going to tell me she was just as into it against her mentor as she was against Madara?
Are you serious in saying that she didn't care about dying against Jiraiya? Cause that's just silly.
Originally posted by Q99
No, I'm really not.Claiming "Everyone is biased but me," is probably a time to step back and consider, hey, maybe you might be the one who's biased.
Yes...yes you very much are. I've pointed out about half a dozen times, already, where you've used bias arguments to support Konan.
And when everyone is bias, you should never accept it. Even if you're the only one. Argumentum ad populum is still not a logical counter argument.
And not everyone is wet over Konan. You'd do well to remember that.
Originally posted by Q99
Or heck, come to think of it, Gaara's a *3* (even post-timeskip) and he was still able to crush Deidara's arm, a 4.5, and hit Kimimaro, another 4.5, a lot, with Kimimaro surviving just due to absurd toughness....Kisame's a 4 and was able to do plenty against Gai, a 5, and caught Lee and Neji, 4.5s both... Sakura, 3, was able to hit Sasori's main body, 4.5.
Anyway, in short, having higher speed hardly means someone can blitz whoever they want. If you have reasonable speed you can manage just fine, especially if the slower person is skilled and have jutsu that make it iffy like area attacks or non-speed defensive powers.
Gaara being a 3 is one of the main reasons I retracted my statement about her being 3.5. Gaara doesn't need to move in the same way that Konan doesn't move: it's manipulated with her mind.
But I appreciate you giving me the perfect reason to explain why a 3 is a much better number for Konan.