That she was hit by a base form Jiraiya means she's definitely too slow for speedsters.
Please. Base-Jiraiya's no slouch either. He's faster than Kisame, and Kisame's had no particular speed problems when fighting Bee or Gai.
And you're listing a non-prime Oro, BTW. And Asuma was in quite the sh*tty situation against someone that had quite awesome taijutsu.None of the examples you listed are any good.
They're all 4.5s. Madara's only shown himself to be a 4.5.
She's apparently "horribly vulnerable to speedsters," but by that, you only seem to mean 5.0s. And of the 5.0s? Only Gai and A are S-medium or less, and they're physical so she's practically immune to their attacks anyway.
Oh wow, what a horrible weakness, three people who are S+ class can kill her with speed! And those three... can kill everyone with those speeds.
Again, that's not so much a weakness as "S+s can kill anyone."
I disagree. She's directly vulnerable to speed and that's how she's been "beaten" every time.
And you're completely leaving out that most people can't really hurt her regardless of speed and that every time additional measures were needed to deal with her defenses. Or the instances she's shown good speed.
Maybe I'd believe your argument if you didn't have to leave out her better showings to make it work.
Nice try, but that's a very poor argument. She has no "good" reflex feats, at all.
Except for the multiple times she reacted to Madara trying to teleport and preventing it every time... she swooped in on Madara at the same speed as the attacks that successfully surrounded him.
Look, calling feats "PIS" doesn't prevent them from happening. Stop ignoring the stuff that goes against your points. Especially when that stuff is, y'know, half of a character's appearances.
Lastly, on the Raikage: there's a difference between being fast enough to hit a speedster and tricking them. Gaara tricked them out of their sight. Konan was directly in front of Jiraiya and was looking right at him AND in the direction the attack came. In order for your comparison to even remotely make sense, the Raikage would have to be staring right at Gaara as Gaara released an attack right from his person.
Temari got him multiple times with wind attacks while standing right in front of him, looking right at him and in the direction the attack came. And the sand was right in front of Raikage the first time, and Muu escaped.
Every last one of your arguments against Konan applies to Raikage.
I consider reacting to attacks, when physical movement is required, to be a speed issue.
But people with other defenses don't always chose to dodge. There's no sign either 3rd Raikage or Konan tried to dodge the attacks they were hit by.
I consider using the proper counter to an attack to be an intelligence issue...but ultra fast attacks can also require better speed and/or taijutsu.
Ditto.
What about you?
Yea, I count those two categories about the same. Konan made a bad judgement call in not dodging the oil.
This doesn't make her a 3, not when she's regularly been shown flying around pretty fast and had the reaction time to react to Madara's teleports on multiple occasion.
Both sound serious since her life was on the line and backup was not set to get there for a few more moments.You tell me: one she is about to lose her life, the other, she is trying to take a life.
Are you serious in saying that she didn't care about dying against Jiraiya? Cause that's just silly.
Of course she'd care... if Jiraiya was trying to kill her as a major objective. He wasn't.
He was trying to get intel. She was trying to stall if direct methods failed. Both were somewhat successful. Neither hated each other, Konan viewed Jiraiya as naive and Jiraiya viewed her as a former student who had fallen onto the wrong path.
As opposed to Konan vs Madara, where both had no intention of leaving the battlefield unless the other was a corpse. To Konan, Madara was Darkness, to Madara, Konan was a traitor.
Konan could accomplish her objectives against Jiraiya in two ways, stalling being one. That's a rather different scenario.
Yes...yes you very much are. I've pointed out about half a dozen times, already, where you've used bias arguments to support Konan.
Do you mean that my arguments are biased, or that I've brought up bias?
On the first, I contest that your arguments are the biased one. Aura and I have provided many direct examples from the manga.
On the second, I think someone's forgetting who was the first to leap to "you're just being biased" arguments in the first place.
And when everyone is bias, you should never accept it. Even if you're the only one. Argumentum ad populum is still not a logical counter argument.
None of what you're saying changes the fact that you should consider the possibility that you're being biased, and that actual evidence is being provided by people that you've explicitly ignored.
You're right that an argument being popular doesn't make it true. However, it also definitely does not mean that one person arguing against many isn't biased.
And, I will note, I am not arguing that "just because it's popular it's right." I am arguing, 'multiple people have provided different examples. You should use these examples and viewpoints to reconsider your own argument'.
And not everyone is wet over Konan. You'd do well to remember that.
Apparently everyone here but you. Sorry, "everyone but me is biased" still isn't a convince argument in any sense. I've responded to your arguments with facts and examples. You then leapt to calling me in love with Konan, and then extended that to everyone who disagreed with you, rather than just consider the possibility that maybe you shouldn't write off all the counter-evidence as PIS.
Look, Aura and I have posted tons of examples. You wrote them off as *IS. That doesn't mean they aren't evidence that a person, without bias, can use to draw a conclusion different than yours.
Gaara being a 3 is one of the main reasons I retracted my statement about her being 3.5. Gaara doesn't need to move in the same way that Konan doesn't move: it's manipulated with her mind.But I appreciate you giving me the perfect reason to explain why a 3 is a much better number for Konan.
Except she also has movement powers and has been seen swopping in on people at speed. She was part of the cloud that surrounded Madara, after all. Konan does a lot more moving than Gaara.
4 is fitting, 3.5 I disagree with, I'm just pointing out even a 3.5 doesn't make you weak like you claim, 3 is silly considering she has actual movement special abilities. And as with Gaara, none of them would actually make her as weak as you claim either, because as Gaara directly shows, if your powers are great enough you don't need to move all that fast and your defense doesn't care how fast your opponents are.
And really? "But I appreciate you giving me the perfect reason to explain why a 3 is a much better number for Konan."
You're openly looking for excuses to lowball and claiming you aren't biased. C'mon, dude. Standards of evidence, or rather double-standards.