The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
But he's cool enough for her ass. 😛

Yes.

He only saved Kakashi's ass because he was interested in the tech's awesomeness that surpassed anything he had. 😛

Heh. But I thought Kyuubi killed Iruka's parents?

Yeah, the whole card usage thing was stupid. BBS was good.
Is 358/2 Days different like CoM, or closer to the original formula, but still different, like BBS?

Wasn't Coded for the Phone platform? Meh, here's hoping KHIII is PS exclusive awesome

Nah. He def ain't cool enough.

I agree.

Nah. FTG is still Chidori. If only because of the name. Minato was full of himself when he named it.

It did. But he had the scar before that so it doesn't count.

It is basically KH 1 on DS. Plays very much like it. I can't think of any big differences at the moment. 😛

In Japan. In North America, it should be on the DS. Re:Coded being the actual title. And here here!

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Nah. He def ain't cool enough.

I agree.

Nah. FTG is still Chidori. If only because of the name. Minato was full of himself when he named it.

It did. But he had the scar before that so it doesn't count.

It is basically KH 1 on DS. Plays very much like it. I can't think of any big differences at the moment. 😛

In Japan. In North America, it should be on the DS. Re:Coded being the actual title. And here here!

But he's a blondie, just like Samui!

Yeah, but Chidori has Lightningz around the arm. FTG is just mere teleportations. Cool looking Lightningz around arm > Teleportation.

Damn. A's father wouldn't count as well, because Hachibi never killed his parents.

I'll look it up. Can't play it anyway. Would never own a DS. 😛
Ahh. There's one coming out for the 3DS I believe. They've milked the series now, they should just make 3. 😛

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
But he's a blondie, just like Samui!

Yeah, but Chidori has Lightningz around the arm. FTG is just mere teleportations. Cool looking Lightningz around arm > Teleportation.

Damn. A's father wouldn't count as well, because Hachibi never killed his parents.

I'll look it up. Can't play it anyway. Would never own a DS. 😛
Ahh. There's one coming out for the 3DS I believe. They've milked the series now, they should just make 3. 😛

So? Minato and Naruto never showed much interesting in blondes.

Teleporting is more helpful though! 😮

Do you KNOW that? vin

Haha.
Well, considering where they're going with 3, I can see the need for all of this. Somewhat.

Speculation time- which Jinchuuriki is which of Madara's paths?

I'll hazard a guess that Fu might be Animal, since she's probably fast (wind powers and all that).

My bet is Yagura gets to be Deva.

I was actually thinking Yugito for Animal for some reason and Yu for Human.

I think Han will be Asura. Yagura being Deva because it makes the most sense. Maybe Roshi for Petra and Utakata for Naraka?

I was thinking the ones the audience know about would be the popular Paths. 😮

Hm... aside from Yugito and Fu, which I'd put the other way around (Yugito, being more badass, would be a pretty good Human), I think that's a pretty good set of paths.

Originally posted by Q99
Dadudemon, speed ratings are the *person's* speed, not the jutsu. They're two different things.

And how do you reconcile your low ratings with Konan successfully reacting to Madara and preventing him from having time to teleport on multiple occasions?

Yet you're still arguing she's easily blitzed when she was able to defend against Madara's blitz until she was exhausted, and Madara noted he underestimated her when he thought he could take her out with just a quick teleport-blitz when they first clashed.

Uh, no. You're only saying that because it's your side of the story and thus to you feels natural, but you've been saying pretty extreme things, and they're getting more extreme with time.

Also, you're exaggerating my argument.

So yea, you're showing bias.

One, that's not what non-sequator means. The phrase refers to something entirely different.

Two, your counter-arguments have been responded to with examples and pages from the manga. That you showed what your argument is doesn't make it right, there is evidence against it.

She flies around pretty fast. Not speedster fast, but she's shown no speed deficiency when she actually moves. She's also shown good reaction time with her jutsu.

She's got a low-end incident (Jiraiya) and a higher-end incident (Madara). When determining max, why are you asking us to assume the low one is the case?

And so did Konan against Madara.

She has her automatic paper form and blocks attacks with paper.

Konan's not Gaara but she has her own jutsu.

About your first comment: this is why Konan is a 3.

Madara never blitzed her but once. Madara also has shown to NOT be a speedster. He's fast...maybe a 4...POSSIBLY a 4.5. But not a speedster.

I'm biased in favor of Minato, Itachi, and Naruto. No one else. I don't hate any character except for Sasuke. You know my bias, now. So why am I arguing about Konan? I think it's because you and others are giving her too much credit and overlooking that she's not as strong as you think she is. Like I said: give any A rank or higher years of study and prep and watch how well they do against just about anyone.

Madara is not a true speedster nor is Clay Boy. But Clay Boy is quite fast.

You showed arguments from the manga, sure, but I countered those and then some...most of them were countered before you and others brought them up. Moot point, to me.

Konan cannot compare to Gaara despite their very similar MOs and fighting styles. Gaara is faster than Konan but he's a 3.Konan is a 3. She's slow and fully susceptible to speedy attacks. Speedsters would be her worst matchup. Speedsters with plenty of chakra would be even worse.

Asuma would be a decent match for her, I think. I think Asuma would lose a majority but her paper slowness and Asuma's speed would make her quite useless against him. Only wearing him down would net her a victory and Asuma has decent tactics enough to pull of a win every now and then.

Might Guy (part 1), easy victory. He won't even have to gates her.

Kakashi (part 1): easy victory. Though he may have to use his sharingan.

C: decent victory. Fast and smart. he wins 7 out of 10.

Jugo: has to go cursed seal 2, but he wins.

Zabuza: Loses but only 4 out of 10.

I could go on. But this is what I think of Konan's stats/abilites.

I feel I need to point some things out.

This, this, and this are examples of speed blitzing.

This, this, and this are examples of surprise attacks.

The former consists of ninja outright attacking their opponent before the enemy can react. The latter are examples of ninja being hit by an attack from an opponent they thought was dead.

Now tell me, which one of the two does this look like?

Edit: Also, there is the matter of this scene. Jiraiya used a faster attack, plan and simple.

See here, here and here for examples of someone using an attack that is too fast to dodge.

I ran out of edit time. 🙁

About your first comment: this is why Konan is a 3.

At absolute most, you could "This is why Konan could be a 3," but not actually proven as a 3.

She also has some pretty good personal speed like when she travelled faster than Animal Path, when she swooped on the guy Jiraiya was controlling, and when she did on Madara too.

And at no point did she try and dodge an attack and fail. She either didn't try (which is a sensible mistake because she's *immune to most attacks*) or successfully defended.

You're just assuming the low-end when we have evidence of higher.

Madara never blitzed her but once. Madara also has shown to NOT be a speedster. He's fast...maybe a 4...POSSIBLY a 4.5. But not a speedster.

You were arguing he could blitz her and thus it was PIS.

You shifting around your points is one of the problems in what you're doing.

You showed arguments from the manga, sure, but I countered those and then some...most of them were countered before you and others brought them up. Moot point, to me.

And your counters were in turn answered, countered and/or disagreed with, again with evidence.

That's another problem with what you're doing.

Though the main thing is you leapt to accusing bias against multiple people who were using spelled-out arguments with evidence. That's what actively made me lose a good deal of respect for you.

Did you gain respect for me? =D

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Did you gain respect for me? =D

Well I already knew you could debate on the level you'd been doing, o it's more like "confirmed current level." 🙂

Originally posted by Q99
At absolute most, you could "This is why Konan could be a 3," but not actually proven as a 3.

She also has some pretty good personal speed like when she travelled faster than Animal Path, when she swooped on the guy Jiraiya was controlling, and when she did on Madara too.

And at no point did she try and dodge an attack and fail. She either didn't try (which is a sensible mistake because she's *immune to most attacks*) or successfully defended.

You're just assuming the low-end when we have evidence of higher.

So I revise it to "at the most". Better?

Originally posted by Q99
You were arguing he could blitz her and thus it was PIS.

You shifting around your points is one of the problems in what you're doing.

Well, that point kind of went over your head. I'll make it more clear (not problem, I've missed some of your points): Madara is not a speedster. He's a 4...MAYBE a 4.5 at the most. However, he's more than fast enough to blitz her ass to literal death.

Originally posted by Q99
And your counters were in turn answered, countered and/or disagreed with, again with evidence.

That's another problem with what you're doing.

And those counters were either circular, countered again, or wrong.

Originally posted by Q99
Though the main thing is you leapt to accusing bias against multiple people who were using spelled-out arguments with evidence. That's what actively made me lose a good deal of respect for you.

I disagree:

"Evidence that I've used myself to show that she's not as uber as you and others are wanking her to be.

I've countered all the "examples" and evidence provided. And I've clearly shown that there is a bias in favor of Konan from yourself."

And "actively lose a good deal respect for [me]"? You kidding? It seemed as though you had any and my goal was never to get any. It's more or less to get you to admit that the entire fight was PIS and Konan's feats to not equate to true S.

Well if my current level is good, I'll take that as a compliment. ^^

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I feel I need to point some things out.

This, this, and this are examples of speed blitzing.

This, this, and this are examples of surprise attacks.

The former consists of ninja outright attacking their opponent before the enemy can react. The latter are examples of ninja being hit by an attack from an opponent they thought was dead.

Now tell me, which one of the two does this look like?

Edit: Also, there is the matter of this scene. Jiraiya used a faster attack, plan and simple.

Konan was speed blitzed beyond the ability to react to it. You call it a surprise, I'll stick with what really happened.

But if you want to be biased....

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
See here, here and here for examples of someone using an attack that is too fast to dodge.

I ran out of edit time. 🙁

The first is an example of blinding him with water, first, then attack when he's blind.

The second does not look like anything "fast" just trickery.

The third is simply moving too fast for a giant summon to move out of the way and the tongue was quite "engulfing". Ever played tic tac toe? Where you make it to where you can win with two different moves making it impossible for the other person to win? That's what it was.

Actually, talking about this has convinced me more than ever that Konan is not as awesome as most say. At first, I thought she was a low S but now, by feats, she seems more like a Mid-A.

However, I will always concede that she's actually an S rank of sorts because that's what was said.

For someone like Kakashi, we have tons of feats to back up his rank as S. If we only had two fights for him that were short, we could conclude that he was A...depending on the feats. I wanted to see more versatility on the fly from Konan to rank her an S by feats alone. I'm satisfied with statements in the manga, however...just not with her feats.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Konan was speed blitzed beyond the ability to react to it. You call it a surprise, I'll stick with what really happened.

But if you want to be biased....

Uh.....

What?

You....Can't be serious right? Surely you see that what happened was a Surprise attack, not due to super speed. Right? The scene is identical to what happened to Jiraiya after all, another surprise attack.

I ish not. I've posted examples of both speed blitz and surprise attacks. Clearly what Madara did goes into the later. A back stab. Otherwise known as a sneak attack.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The first is an example of blinding him with water, first, then attack when he's blind.

The second does not look like anything "fast" just trickery.

The third is simply moving too fast for a giant summon to move out of the way and the tongue was quite "engulfing". Ever played tic tac toe? Where you make it to where you can win with two different moves making it impossible for the other person to win? That's what it was.

Can't seem to find where it blinded him.

Not....really.

Then why didn't Pain himself dodge it?

No, high end, she's 3. Low end could be lower but I like to use high end.

So I revise it to "at the most". Better?

Please.... please don't lie to my face/screen, Dadudemon. It doesn't suit you.

"Every time you say something, I'll just lower my estimate more," is just petulant.

Actually, talking about this has convinced me more than ever that Konan is not as awesome as most say. At first, I thought she was a low S but now, by feats, she seems more like a Mid-A.

No, you started out by claiming she was mid-A, that was what started this up.

dadudemon
Konan was speed blitzed beyond the ability to react to it. You call it a surprise, I'll stick with what really happened.

But if you want to be biased....

Konan also reacted to attacks just as fast. Nice of you to leave that out.

Look, here's the structure of the argument from my POV:

D- "Argument."
Q/A- "Counterargument with examples."
D- "Response."
Q/A- "Point out how that doesn't resolve problems examples illustrate,"
D- "Ah, but I already answered that with Response."
Q/A- "Response doesn't include all issues brought up with counterargument, so that doesn't solve the problem."
D- "Still, Response!"
Q/A- "Still leaving stuff out."
D- "Bias!"
Q- "??"

The Bias claim seems to be based on nothing except the fact we disagree with you. That is very bad form, if you just stop before that it's 'Ok, we disagree, I think you're viewing this from entirely the wrong angle, but that happens,' that's one thing, but that's moving it off of 'arguing' and into the realm of 'insulting people because they disagree with you.'

You're still not taking into account Aura's and my arguments, you chose to get insulting, and every time we post more stuff you respond by adjusting your argument downward regardless of content.

😆

I'm laughing at the Q and A part. Irony.

And my arguments weren't even addressed.