The Official Naruto series Thread

This is "Madara" when he freed the nine-tailed beast. This was fifteen years ago, let's call him Tobi.

This was "Madara" when he decided to help Itachi to destroy the village eight years later, let's simply call him Madara.

There's a significant difference between the two. The length and thickness of the hair. Here comes our first dilemma.

Tobi has Madara's eyes. Because Itachi implanted Sasuke's the Amaterasu jutsu to react on the sight of Madara's eyes.

Furthermore the resurrected Madara know of Nagato and the outer-path's ability to raise the living.

Furthermore we have this interesting pieces of dialogue.

Now Kakashi's statement is further enhanced by the fact that the Uchiha clan ancestor (the sage's child) didn't have the sage's eyes. Remember this was after he had fought the six paths of pain and witnessed the rinnegan firsthand.

Finally we have the eye of the ten-tailed beast which looked a bit more peculiar.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The more I think on it, Izuna seems unlikely. If he did take Madara's eyes, he'd be powerful enough to not need to resort to round about tactics. Izuna was Madara's equal after all apparently. Maybe Madara was a hair stronger.

Connect...the...dots...

What am I missing....?mmm

Obito.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Obito.

Quiet, your logic has no place here.

Also Izuna is an unlike candidate as well considering that we know even less of him than Madara, besides, didn't we see him about to get buried?

And no, he's not a Zetsu or else he wouldn't need Zetsu's to travel to him and tell him that Sasuke's and Itachi's had ended.

Originally posted by Astner
This is "Madara" when he freed the nine-tailed beast. This was fifteen years ago, let's call him Tobi.

This was "Madara" when he decided to help Itachi to destroy the village eight years later, let's simply call him Madara.

There's a significant difference between the two. The length and thickness of the hair. Here comes our first dilemma.

Tobi has Madara's eyes. Because Itachi implanted Sasuke's the Amaterasu jutsu to react on the sight of Madara's eyes.

Furthermore the resurrected Madara know of Nagato and the outer-path's ability to raise the living.

Furthermore we have this interesting pieces of dialogue.

Now Kakashi's statement is further enhanced by the fact that the Uchiha clan ancestor (the sage's child) didn't have the sage's eyes. Remember this was after he had fought the six paths of pain and witnessed the rinnegan firsthand.

Finally we have the eye of the ten-tailed beast which looked a bit more peculiar.

Your entire line or reasoning fails if you assume that Madara is alive and can cut his hair from time to time.

Unless you think that Madara is like a Saiyan and his hair is the same from when he is born till death?

And, about the eye: Itachi may have thought it was Madara's eye but it was actually someone else's, thus throwing off our entire assumption about Tobi having Madara's eye.

Originally posted by Astner

1. Obito was an incompetent ninja.
2. Obito would be around the same age as Kakashi, Tobi had wrinkles.
3. Obito had half his body crushed by boulders.

Well, there's a glaring problem with your reasoning:

1. He was very similar to Naruto. Incompetent? Possibly...but he had potential from the moment he unlocked his sharingan (as do all Uchiha).

2. Notice that the wrinkles were only ever shown on the side of his face that was pinned?

3. Had he actually be crushed, he would have died instantly. He was pinned, not crushed. But the pinning was enough to worry about his life. Probably had something to do with...breathing? 😄

The entire assumption is that Obito somehow escaped with help or something...and then got medical attention.

If it wasn't plausible, then we would not have entertained it.

If it were Obito, Kakashi would be the most unobservant ninja in the series.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
If it were Obito, Kakashi would be the most unobservant ninja in the series.

How is Kakashi supposed to know that that is Obito....at all?

The only possible way is to know Obito's body language.

However...that's pretty much impossible since Obito grew up. Even the way you walk changes a bit after puberty...much less your voice.

We don't know when Kakashi got his summons, so we can't assume the dogs would know his smell (he could have REALLY used them in Kakashi Gaiden, so we can almost completely rule them out).

So there's actually no reason for Kakashi to know who Obito is...especially since he's wearing that mask. 😄

Chakra color. ^^

Despite what your Scoutleader said, not everyone is a beautiful, unique snowflake. I doubt Kakashi can tell its Obito just from his color.

Besides, would he even know what Obito's color was?

See. He saw him with sharingan when it was transplanted.

And this guy remembered the chakra of someone relatively unimportant from a while ago. Why can't Kakashi, who'd have a connection with Obitio, not recognize Obito's chakra? Probably cause he doesn't have it. ^^

Of course if Tobi were Obito, he hit a random growth spurt in a week.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

And this guy remembered the chakra of someone relatively unimportant from a while ago. Why can't Kakashi, who'd have a connection with Obitio, not recognize Obito's chakra? Probably cause he doesn't have it. ^^

Can Sharingan see chakra colors as well as Byakugan?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Chakra color. ^^

It's the same...for everyone.

Except Naruto...but that's only Kyuubi chakra. On top of that, it's yellow-white when "tamed".

Unless you bring in the anime....

Originally posted by Q99
Can Sharingan see chakra colors as well as Byakugan?

Apparently.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
See. He saw him with sharingan when it was transplanted.

And this guy remembered the chakra of someone relatively unimportant from a while ago. Why can't Kakashi, who'd have a connection with Obitio, not recognize Obito's chakra? Probably cause he doesn't have it. ^^

Of course if Tobi were Obito, he hit a random growth spurt in a week.

It's all the same color.

It's more like "flavor" and "feeling" instead of actual color.

Edit - And from what I remember...

Naruto's base color (manga only, please) is yellow...as is everyone else.

Senju chakra is green.

Kyuubi's is orange.

I do not remember any other colors being mentioned or seen.

Then it doesn't matter in the context of Tobi is Obito theory. Kakashi should still be able to recognize Obito's chakra. He doesn't so the chances of it being Obito? Nil.

And Ao specifies color. Not my fault if it's a retcon. 😮

Though I can't remember chakra having a specific color. Where was that said again? mmm

The real reason I don't think it is Obito is height. Obito is smaller than Minato, Tobi was more or less the same size.

Originally posted by Q99
Can Sharingan see chakra colors as well as Byakugan?

Dunno if it can see colour as well as the Byakugan can, but it should. The Byakugan is better at spotting smaller things like the chakra pathways.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Then it doesn't matter in the context of Tobi is Obito theory.

It does, directly.

Because Kakashi had not used his Sharingan for 5 minutes.

Remembering that it has a different feel/flavor than others would be kind of difficult.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Kakashi should still be able to recognize Obito's chakra. He doesn't so the chances of it being Obito? Nil.

First, you must prove that Kakashi is as masturful at chakra recognition as Sasuke (not true so you can't). Then you must prove that Kakashi himself can do the same thing as Sasuke with his Sharingan (not true so you can't) in order to use Sasuke as the perfect parallel to Kakashi's sharingan.

Then you must also prove that Kakashi could recognize color at such an immature stage of the sharingan under Kakashi's use (impossible so you can't).

Then you must prove that Kakashi could remember that Obito's particular chakra at some point.

The last point is the only point that you could potentially prove in the future. 😄

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Though I can't remember chakra having a specific color. Where was that said again? mmm

Naruto training with Jiraiya, early Naruto games (apparantly, the art direction of the first game or so had to ask Kishi what color regular chakra was and he confirmed it as yellow), and various cover art from Kishi.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
The real reason I don't think it is Obito is height. Obito is smaller than Minato, Tobi was more or less the same size.

So...you know exactly how tall someone will be after they grow up?

They were...12, dude (Kakashi was 13?). 😬

Some young men grow an entire foot between 17-23.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
See. He saw him with sharingan when it was transplanted.

He saw him with the incomplete two tomoe sharingan that Kakashi only just got and didn't know how to control.

No way does this destroy the chance of it being him. Kakashi could have just not looked at his chakra through the sharingan. Or the incomplete sharingan can't see chakra. Or Kakashi didn't use it very well in the 1 minute he had it. Or he just didn't get a good look. I mean, Obito was just half a face and an arm at that point. Theres tons of ways Kishi can explain Kakashi not recognising his chakra.

Demonic Phoenix
Dunno if it can see colour as well as the Byakugan can, but it should. The Byakugan is better at spotting smaller things like the chakra pathways.

Hm, yea, I think you're right.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He saw him with the incomplete two tomoe sharingan that Kakashi only just got and didn't know how to control.

No way does this destroy the chance of it being him. Kakashi could have just not looked at his chakra through the sharingan. Or the incomplete sharingan can't see chakra. Or Kakashi didn't use it very well in the 1 minute he had it. Or he just didn't get a good look. I mean, Obito was just half a face and an arm at that point. Theres tons of ways Kishi can explain Kakashi not recognising his chakra.

Ah, true. Seeing chakra isn't helpful if you don't have sufficient info on what it was like.

Plus, the senju implants! It's not just a graft like Danzo's eye and arm, it's throughout his body, so may also alter things.

I think Tobito and Mitobi are solidly our two best contenders.