Spoiler:
Well looks like my idea of Madara not being a planner was wrong. Any who, a few things happened.We know Madara had the Rinnegan at the time of death. He could have revived anyone with his Rinnegan(probably got activated due to Senju cells gathered from the battle) to help him. Izuna wouldn't be my immediate guess though, mostly cause he should be roughly equal with Madara.
However, ideas concerning Kagami and Obito and anyone else are now more than likely false. He has to be old enough to know Madara. "His doing"...Could he mean Nagato? Again, there was no way he could know the Nagato we know....revived past his prime? So does that mean Madara did indeed grow old and he was just revived young?
I feel like a lot got answered but a lot is now in question.
Oh and Madara is badass. That isn't a spoiler. 😛
It's official, Madara's a BAMF.
Spoiler:
A single Fire tech equaling multiple Water techs is uber. And he was blitzing the army easily.Anyway, looks like KK was right. Rinnegan users can in fact use Susano'o, an upgraded version by the looks of it.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelSpoiler:
Well looks like my idea of Madara not being a planner was wrong. Any who, a few things happened.We know Madara had the Rinnegan at the time of death. He could have revived anyone with his Rinnegan(probably got activated due to Senju cells gathered from the battle) to help him. Izuna wouldn't be my immediate guess though, mostly cause he should be roughly equal with Madara.
However, ideas concerning Kagami and Obito and anyone else are now more than likely false. He has to be old enough to know Madara. "His doing"...Could he mean Nagato? Again, there was no way he could know the Nagato we know....revived past his prime? So does that mean Madara did indeed grow old and he was just revived young?
I feel like a lot got answered but a lot is now in question.
Oh and Madara is badass. That isn't a spoiler. 😛
Spoiler:
"His doing" seems like it is concerning Orochimaru.Madara could be Nagato Uzumaki's father. They look kind of like each other. 😛
His Susano'o looks pretty weird though. It's two faced. Could that hint at something regarding Madara & Tobi?
Also, I think this chapter confirms that Rinnegan > Sharingan. 😛
Plus as an Uchiha with the Rinnegan, we now have the theory that Madara created something just before he died.
Originally posted by Demonic PhoenixSpoiler:
"His doing" seems like it is concerning Orochimaru.Madara could be Nagato Uzumaki's father. They look kind of like each other. 😛
His Susano'o looks pretty weird though. It's two faced. Could that hint at something regarding Madara & Tobi?
Also, I think this chapter confirms that Rinnegan > Sharingan. 😛
Plus as an Uchiha with the Rinnegan, we now have the theory that Madara created something just before he died.
Spoiler:
Well...I don't think Madara was alive during Orochimaru's time.Too old. If we assume he died at the VotE.
Or could just be an EMS thing. 😛
We also know that Sasuke is likely to get the Rinnegan. =D
They are not talking about Orochimaru (Kabuto and Madara) but about Tobi. The fact that Madara can use
Spoiler:points out towards he and Tobi not being the same person, because
the Rinnegan
Spoiler:.
Tobi had to get it from a dead body, it also opens the possibility that Pein's eyes are actually Madara's Rinnegan, and that Tobi was alive back when Madara got them and he passed them to Nagato.
Finally we also learn why Tobi would want to pick Sasuke under his wing,
Spoiler:.
to create another set of Rinnegan, which he cannot get by himself otherwise. Which abilities does the Rinnegan Tobi uses have?
Wow...even Madara knows just how much Kabuto sucks. BTW, I didn't think I could dislike Kabuto as much as I did this chapter for
Spoiler:
turning Muu into a puppet
I wonder if this makes Madara outright SS unlike Nagato who's SS-. Maybe we still need to see more of him but who knows.
Another thing
Spoiler:
If Naruto's clones don't have enough energy to enter Kyuubi Mode along with being hit by Madara's Susanoo, how come they haven't disappeared yet....let alonehave enough energy for Sage Mode and Rasenshuriken?
Spoiler:
Wow, that is a lot of power. I suspect we have what was a S+ who then gained Rinnegan. Susano'o and other Mangekyo techniques on top of the 6 Paths... that's uber.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Another thingSpoiler:
If Naruto's clones don't have enough energy to enter Kyuubi Mode along with being hit by Madara's Susanoo, how come they haven't disappeared yet....let alonehave enough energy for Sage Mode and Rasenshuriken?
Spoiler:
Sage mode gathers outside energy, that's one of it's advantages. As long as he can sit and collect, he can use it to gain power even when he's low. That's one of it's big advantages.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Anyway, looks like KK was right. Rinnegan users can in fact use Susano'o, an upgraded version by the looks of it. [/spoiler]
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
[B]
Anyway, looks like KK was right. Rinnegan users can in fact use Susano'o, an upgraded version by the looks of it.
I'm going to hazard a guess and say not all can, but Madara who advanced his from EMS can. That is, Nagato couldn't, and Tobi probably can't, but if Sasuke or Itachi gained Rinnegan they could too.
Originally posted by Q99
I'm going to hazard a guess and say not all can, but Madara who advanced his from EMS can. That is, Nagato couldn't, and Tobi probably can't, but if Sasuke or Itachi gained Rinnegan they could too.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I think you have a wrong use of the word "can" in this context. The rinnegan can do it, in the sense that if you know the proper transforms, the rinnegan can execute the technique. However, a rinnegan user who never used MS, obviously would have no idea how to use the technique.
I'm not sure this is the case. Wouldn't Tobi or Itachi have been able to teach Nagato how to use mangekyo abilities?
Using mangekyo abilities seems pretty intuitive once you have the eyes, I'd think that if Nagato could learn them, he would've.
Although I suppose it's possible Tobi purposefully kept him ignorant of the possibilities...
Originally posted by Q99
I'm not sure this is the case. Wouldn't Tobi or Itachi have been able to teach Nagato how to use mangekyo abilities?Using mangekyo abilities seems pretty intuitive once you have the eyes, I'd think that if Nagato could learn them, he would've.
Although I suppose it's possible Tobi purposefully kept him ignorant of the possibilities...
Originally posted by King Kandy
We have never even seen Shisui fight; we don't know if he had the shinto techniques. However, I do know that Tobi used Shisui's tech on Yagura, so, that technique is also not unique to him alone and actually predated him.
However, given how the MS works (going by what Zetsu said anyway) it seems to be one technique per eye. Except in Shisui's case, who had Koto in both eyes.
However the statement that "all MS give the same 3 techniques (Except Kakashi's)." is wrong because, well, it's not just Kakashi anymore. And going by what Tobi said, Susano'o is actually rare apparently.
That said, I'm inclined to believe that MS techniques depend on the bloodline. Itachi and Sasuke were both sort of like Princes of the Uchiha Clan. Not a stretch that they'd be distantly related to Madara, who might have had the same techs as them.
This chapter makes a lot of Orochimaru's actions perfectly logical decisions.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelSpoiler:
Well...I don't think Madara was alive during Orochimaru's time.Too old. If we assume he died at the VotE.
Or could just be an EMS thing. 😛
We also know that Sasuke is likely to get the Rinnegan. =D
Assuming he died at VotE.
EMS didn't make Sasuke's Susano'o so different though. Plus Susano'o depends on the user. 😛
Yep. This chapter just confirmed that.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Not only was I right that the rinnegan can use kekkai genkai, I was right when I said that all MS give the same 3 techniques (Except Kakashi's). I remember people arguing that the only reason Sasuke's jutsu are the same as Itachi's was his technique implantation; but, this proves it really had nothing to do with that.
We don't know that for sure. We have like 5-6 MS techs, 7 if you want to count Tobi's S/T jutsu. I think it just depends on the user and his affinity.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
However, given how the MS works (going by what Zetsu said anyway) it seems to be one technique per eye. Except in Shisui's case, who had Koto in both eyes.This chapter makes a lot of Orochimaru's actions perfectly logical decisions.
Sasuke can manipulate Amaterasu (& use Enton techs as a result), and use what seems to be Tsukuyomi with his right eye.
Indeed. Makes me wonder what kind of beast he would have been had he gotten his hands on Sasuke's or Itachi's eyes.
I wonder if Byakugan can progress to Rinnegan.
Originally posted by Q99Spoiler:
Wow, that is a lot of power. I suspect we have what was a S+ who then gained Rinnegan. Susano'o and other Mangekyo techniques on top of the 6 Paths... that's uber.
Yep.
It's a shame he died shortly after unlocking the Rinnegan. He would have been stupidly powerful and versatile had he been able to use the Rinnegan to its full potential.
So, SS for Madara?
Originally posted by Q99
I'm going to hazard a guess and say not all can, but Madara who advanced his from EMS can. That is, Nagato couldn't, and Tobi probably can't, but if Sasuke or Itachi gained Rinnegan they could too.
But of course. In order to use a tech, you have to know how to perform it in the first place.
Still, the Rinnegan is capable of using Susano'o, which was the point. The Rinnegan is also capable of Izanagi, which Nagato never demonstrated.
But I'd choose Madara's set of eyes over Nagato's. I'd rather have the Sharingan + EMS + a Rinnegan that I can activate at will.
I would say that the "his doing" was a reference to Orochimaru, NOT Tobi.
I say Tobi is an extension of these plans.
Because "his" is bolded twice on the same page. The second "his" refers to Oro. The first one seems to be, contextually, a reference to that second "his", making both "his"s a reference to Oro..
To further confirm that, he goes on to be astounded that Oro figured out all of this eye technique stuff WITHOUT the rinnigan or sharingan.
On top of this....this now puts Orochimaru as the single best tactical mind in Naruto. He truly was the "once in a generation" genius that Jiraiya described him as.
It's no wonder such an intelligent person wanted to live forever: mastering all jutsus presented a challenge for him.
Also, beyond his prime indicates that Madara was upgraded by Oro/Kabuto to beyond just his unlocking of the rinnigan. He is more powerful, somehow. But how, we do not know yet.
Madara is the only true SS, thus far. If we know about his beyond prime status, he may also be our first true SS+.
That's badasssss.
That ALSO means that Hashirama is truly a beast of a warrior. He matched prime Madara.
That's just absurd.
Hashirama gains awesome points for being awesome just by Madara's awesomeness.
So, I like Madara, Oro, and Hashirama more from this single chapter. This chapte was better than I expected it to be.
So what if Tobi is Oro? hmm?