Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yep.
It's a shame he died shortly after unlocking the Rinnegan. He would have been stupidly powerful and versatile had he been able to use the Rinnegan to its full potential.
So, SS for Madara?
Yea, seems like.
Here's a question- S+ for pre-rinnegan sound ok? 'Cause he seems to follow the same Susano'o power set we know so well.
BTW, this may also shed light on the "shell of his former self" comment. Original Madara had Rinnegan, which until recently Tobi was lacking. I'm guessing that is actually the biggest contributor to that disparity.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I wonder how Madara would have reacted if he saw Naruto's Kyuubi chakra form.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I would say that the "his doing" was a reference to Orochimaru, NOT Tobi. I say Tobi is an extension of these plans. Because "his" is bolded twice on the same page. The second "his" refers to Oro. The first one seems to be, contextually, a reference to that second "his", making both "his"s a reference to Oro. To further confirm that, he goes on to be astounded that Oro figured out all of this eye technique stuff WITHOUT the rinnigan or sharingan.On top of this....this now puts Orochimaru as the single best tactical mind in Naruto. He truly was the "once in a generation" genius that Jiraiya described him as. It's no wonder such an intelligent person wanted to live forever: mastering all jutsus presented a challenge for him.
Also, beyond his prime indicates that Madara was upgraded by Oro/Kabuto to beyond just his unlocking of the rinnigan. He is more powerful, somehow. But how, we do not know yet. Madara is the only true SS, thus far. If we know about his beyond prime status, he may also be our first true SS+. That's badasssss.
That ALSO means that Hashirama is truly a beast of a warrior. He matched prime Madara. That's just absurd. Hashirama gains awesome points for being awesome just by Madara's awesomeness.
So, I like Madara, Oro, and Hashirama more from this single chapter. This chapter was better than I expected it to be.
So what if Tobi is Oro? hmm?
Originally posted by dadudemon
I would say that the "his doing" was a reference to Orochimaru, NOT Tobi.To further confirm that, he goes on to be astounded that Oro figured out all of this eye technique stuff WITHOUT the rinnigan or sharingan.
On top of this....this now puts Orochimaru as the single best tactical mind in Naruto. He truly was the "once in a generation" genius that Jiraiya described him as.
I dunno. Going by Sarutobi as an example, this is what he looked like at the time of the 2nd's death. And this is what he looked like when he was teaching Orochimaru, much older. And he certainly looks much older.
Again, assuming he died at the VotE(and I do due to looks) I don't think he'd know Orochimaru.
But yes, Orochimaru is ingenious. I wouldn't call it tactics though, just good ol' fashioned science and logic. The obsession with Sasuke, the giving Yamato the Senju cells, the connection with Danzo all make perfect sense. He must have found out about the story of the two sons and realized that Senju+Uchiha=Rinnegan. Take the cells from an adult(Yamato) and apply them to a complete sharingan(Sasuke) and we have the Rinnegan. He wouldn't even have to risk his own life to do it and he'd have sharingan and Senju cells to study in case it failed.
I gotta say Kishi did a good job introducing this. The reason Orochimaru wanted the Sharingan was because it could copy jutsu. However, now that we know about this Rinnegan business, we can say that Orochimaru's goal all along was the Rinnegan. It also justifies why the sharingan can copy jutsu: It is the devolved form of the eye that can use all techniques.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I dunno. Going by Sarutobi as an example, this is what he looked like at the time of the 2nd's death. And this is what he looked like when he was teaching Orochimaru, much older. And he certainly looks much older.Again, assuming he died at the VotE(and I do due to looks) I don't think he'd know Orochimaru.
But yes, Orochimaru is ingenious. I wouldn't call it tactics though, just good ol' fashioned science and logic. The obsession with Sasuke, the giving Yamato the Senju cells, the connection with Danzo all make perfect sense. He must have found out about the story of the two sons and realized that Senju+Uchiha=Rinnegan. Take the cells from an adult(Yamato) and apply them to a complete sharingan(Sasuke) and we have the Rinnegan. He wouldn't even have to risk his own life to do it and he'd have sharingan and Senju cells to study in case it failed.
I gotta say Kishi did a good job introducing this. The reason Orochimaru wanted the Sharingan was because it could copy jutsu. However, now that we know about this Rinnegan business, we can say that Orochimaru's goal all along was the Rinnegan. It also justifies why the sharingan can copy jutsu: It is the devolved form of the eye that can use all techniques.
Sarutobi doesn't look much older, to me, actually. In fact, I would say that, at the most, only 1-2 years had passed. He had become the Hokage by that point (had he not?) For me, you can tell how old Sarutobi is based on the length of his Emo tears tat: it's barely longer, if longer at all, compared to that younger self.
And I assume that Madara lived for several years after his battle. Long enough to unlock the rinnigan. No more than 10. I think Madara died at the hands of Tobo or something. 😐 We could even say that Madara's death was all part of the plan. He could have died by unlocking the eyes, too. He may have had Oro helping or at least knew of Oro's interests in the matter.
In fact, what if Madara set Oro down the path of wickedness from the beginning and we have Madara to thank for Sasuke's fall?
And, yes, your explanation for the Sharingan can copy jutsu works quite well.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
tobi is obviously that guy with the umbrellas gaara thought he killed in the forest of death.100% proved biscuits
😆
And this whole war was a plot to get revenge against him. First, build him up by allowing him to defeat Kage's past...then tear him down with defeat. 🙂
Works.
For me, I was going by the hair and beard. 😛
Then again, maybe we're underestimating how long Tobirama served as Hokage. Could the young Sarutobi in this scan be the Sarutobi that knew Hashirama as Hokage? It certainly goes with this image. mmm. Also, it was the same speech Tobirama used in the Danzo flashback. Nice touch Kishi.
If Madara did know Orochimaru, then yeah it would be 10 years. Roughly. I don't think he lived that long though.
Originally posted by Q99
Let's rank the possibilities of likelyhood, from highest to lowest:
Mitobi
Tobito
Izuna
Umbrella Guy
Madara's son
Someone totally unknown
Orochimaru
Real Madara, "Madara" is the imposter
I do not know who those first two are.
Umbrella guy...lol
But I will rank it like this:
1. Tobi is Madara through some unknown means, there are two.
2. Izuna.
3. Madara's son.
4. Orochimaru
5. Obito.
6. Someone totally unknown.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
For me, I was going by the hair and beard. 😛Then again, maybe we're underestimating how long Tobirama served as Hokage. Could the young Sarutobi in this scan be the Sarutobi that knew Hashirama as Hokage? It certainly goes with this image. mmm. Also, it was the same speech Tobirama used in the Danzo flashback. Nice touch Kishi.
If Madara did know Orochimaru, then yeah it would be 10 years. Roughly. I don't think he lived that long though.
Nice catch.
But, yes, it would seem that 10 years would be just enough.
Just enough for Madara to start changing Oro from an awesome genius into a ... perverted genius?
Lolwut? When did the idea that Tobi could be Orochimaru suddenly come up? Or is it a joke? 😆
He's not. What little we know of Tobi, he seems pretty pissed at Orochimaru. Wouldn't make sense for them to be the same person. 😛
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah, he's not Orochimaru.
Still, he is a genius. And his best plan yet? Brainwashing Kabuto into becoming a servant that would try to resurrect him and capture Sasuke. 313
Originally posted by TheAuraAngelI gotta say Kishi did a good job introducing this. The reason Orochimaru wanted the Sharingan was because it could copy jutsu. However, now that we know about this Rinnegan business, we can say that Orochimaru's goal all along was the Rinnegan. It also justifies why the sharingan can copy jutsu: It is the devolved form of the eye that can use all techniques.
I think his initial goal was the Sharingan.
Only after his research with Kabuto did he find out that the possibility to gain the Rinnegan existed because that's when he came up with that hypothesis. Orochimaru was apparently interested in Hashirama's abilty to control the Bijuu, which is why he created Yamato. The Danzo business came up after that.
Besides, it's not simply Senju + Uchiha = Rinnegan. There's something else in there. Otherwise, Tobi would have the Rinnegan, and every eye in Danzou's arm would have been a Rinnegan.
Anyway, now we know exactly why Kabuto wants Sasuke and what he intends to do.