The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gaara's dad would ****ing wreck Hiruzen based on feats.

I would disagree, mostly because even though Hiruzen has weaker techs, he is at the very least a competent man/ninja.

I cannot say the same for Gaara's dad, who is just Gaara but probably has slower attacks.

What difference does it make if a move is suicidal? Obviously, Hiruzen would rape Kushina. He can rip out her ****ing soul. Dying in the process doesn't change the fact that he'd still whoop her ass 10/10 times.

Anko possess a suicide attack. It was beaten by a very basic skill. Le Death God would probably be tricked by similar means. Now an attack like Deidera's, where the suicide attack is very difficult to escape, that would be a good bang to end on. Not so much with Le Death God. 😛

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I would disagree, mostly because even though Hiruzen has weaker techs, he is at the very least a competent man/ninja.

I cannot say the same for Gaara's dad, who is just Gaara but probably has slower attacks.

And before you say anything, no, it's not because he's a "Sue" (Sue=/=character you don't like), it's because Gaara's demonstrated feats are far greater. All of the current Kages not Tsunade would crush Hiruzen based on feats, except maybe Mei.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gaara would nigh-effortlessly stomp Hiruzen though.

And before you say anything, no, it's not because he's a "Sue" (Sue=/=character you don't like), it's because Gaara's demonstrated feats are far greater. All of the current Kages not Tsunade would crush Hiruzen based on feats, except maybe Mei.

I dunno about effortlessly but yeah, Gaara would win. However since Hiruzen seems to be familiar with the concept of dodging, he'd probably have a better chance than Gaara's daddy.

He ish a sue. And Tsunade would beat him as well. Mei is iffy but she would also probably win.

RE: Blaxican
That's what you're doing. My only criteria for a tier list is who can beat who in a straight up fight. Everything else is irrelevent.

Oh, is that what you thought this was?

It's not.

It's a listing of how useful someone is in combat situations on the whole. Not just duels-to-the-death, but also random encounters, fights against armies (or in lower levels, groups of mooks), fighting alongside a team, etc..

A strait one-on-one duel to the death where both sides are willing/able to use suicide moves and moves that cripple them all the time is a rare situation, so judging based on that

You wanna make your own duelist chart? Go right ahead. Should bump people like Mifune up and the healbot characters down.

It's not and has never been what I'm doing 🙂

Originally posted by NemeBro
Don't fall for Blax's trolling Q99.

Seriously, don't. estahuh

It disgraces us all.

Yea, Blax (and psycho) have so consistently failed to produce anything to back up their argument on the Uzumakis (or Chiyo in this case) I'm just going to do an eye roll on that part:

🙄

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I dunno about effortlessly but yeah, Gaara would win. However since Hiruzen seems to be familiar with the concept of dodging, he'd probably have a better chance than Gaara's daddy.

No, Gaara would crush him.

He ish a sue.

He is not.

And Tsunade would beat him as well.

Unlikely.

Mei is iffy but she would also probably win.

In all likelihood yes.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, Gaara would crush him. He is not.

Unlikely.

Eventually. And he ish.

I don't even think Tsunade is the weakest of the Kage so I'm already on her side against Hiruzen.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And he ish.

Why is he?

I don't even think Tsunade is the weakest of the Kage so I'm already on her side against Hiruzen.

Who is?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why is he?

Who is?

What are his flaws?

More than likely Mei. Or A.

Edit: Note, I don't think Gaara is Kishi's own self inserted character. Should be very obvious who that is. I just think Gaara possess all the Suey traits.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
What are his flaws?

More than likely Mei. Or A.

Edit: Note, I don't think Gaara is Kishi's own self inserted character. Should be very obvious who that is. I just think Gaara possess all the Suey traits.

?????

Originally posted by Nephthys
?????

Those are not Gaara's flaws.

What *is* Shippuden Gaara's character?

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
What are his flaws?

You're confusing character development into a more stable, intelligent, and wise character with becoming a Mary Sue. Gaara may not have the crippling flaws of personality he once had, but he is by no means infallible, struggling to fight the Second Mizukage, being unable to overcome Mu despite Onoki's help (Let us compare this to Naruto, who lolone-shots Mu the moment he appears, albeit with a sneak attack), and being utterly impotent against Madara.

And for that matter, Mary Sue isn't so simply described as as "character without serious flaws". In fact, the term Mary Sue is not so simply described in general, there is no hard consensus on what a character must have to qualify.

Minato is much less flawed than Gaara is, and unlike Gaara has never shown to be anything but flawless and virtually perfect, and is portrayed as being perhaps the most idealised Shinobi in the series, while being every bit as powerful as his reputation suggests. Yet you like him, though deride Gaara as a Mary Sue. Peculiar. Truthfully, neither can be so easily pegged as Mary Sues.

You don't like Gaara. I don't really like him either. That doesn't make him a Mary Sue, I find the use of the term to describe a character someone merely dislikes to be distressing.

More than likely Mei. Or A.

A would crush Tsunade. I find it hilarious that you think differently. He has comparable strength, is faster, and more durable.

Your opinion, is wrong.

He's very emotionless and focused on being competent and trying to be the best Kage he can be. He majorly serioused it up.

Edit: Minato is a Sue.

Being a fairly boring character (Which he is, IMHO) =/= Mary Sue.

I never said he was. estahuh

I added that for the child's benefit.

I hesitate to call Minato a Sue, but yeah, he's definitely more of one than Gaara is. He's also so ****ing boring I've grown resentful of his popularity.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You're confusing character development into a more stable, intelligent, and wise character with becoming a Mary Sue. Gaara may not have the crippling flaws of personality he once had, but he is by no means infallible, struggling to fight the Second Mizukage, being unable to overcome Mu despite Onoki's help (Let us compare this to Naruto, who lolone-shots Mu the moment he appears, albeit with a sneak attack), and being utterly impotent against Madara.

And for that matter, Mary Sue isn't so simply described as as "character without serious flaws". In fact, the term Mary Sue is not so simply described in general, there is no hard consensus on what a character must have to qualify.

Not really. Gaara as an insane guy was still intelligent and wise in a Hobbsian way. The minute he became stable, he became very boring. He *struggled* against Mizukage but won. We didn't get to see much of his fight with Muu but ultimately helps take him down and is the one who seals him up so well that Kabuto can't get him out. And he is actually fairing quite well against Madara and has managed to do several things that a guy on his last legs should not be able to do.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Minato is much less flawed than Gaara is, and unlike Gaara has never shown to be anything but flawless and virtually perfect, and is portrayed as being perhaps the most idealised Shinobi in the series, while being every bit as powerful as his reputation suggests. Yet you like him, though deride Gaara as a Mary Sue. Peculiar. Truthfully, neither can be so easily pegged as Mary Sues.

Ah, but this isn't true. Minato's flaws, and why I like him, can be spotted if one looks at it in the right way. It's like finding Itachi's flaws, though Itachi's flaws have more to do with him being incredibly stupid than selfish, which was the case with Minato. Gaara simply has no flaws, no matter how I look.

Originally posted by NemeBro
A would crush Tsunade. I find it hilarious that you think differently. He has comparable strength, is faster, and more durable.

Your opinion, is wrong.

Does not matter. A can hit her all he wants, she will simply heal. And considering all A can do is hit her, that will be a long battle. Conversely, she *can* hit him and since he can't heal, this battle would really not be fair to him. Bee, who has way fewer strength feats than Tsunade, knocked A on his arse fairly easily. Tsunade would likely rip his arm off and beat him with it.

Nah.

He's very emotionless and focused on being competent and trying to be the best Kage he can be. He majorly serioused it up.

For someone who has serioused it up, he sure jokes a lot.

Minato has flaws? What, is his perfect blond-haired blue-eyed perfection just not quite perfect enough?

Indeed. His flaw is being very pussy whipped. To the point where, at the very thought of losing his wife or seeing his wife in any sort of pain, he loses all composure. All of it. He attributes becoming Hokage to her, not himself. He doesn't gloat or brag like most when they win, which is usually what a character likes to do when he wins, which combined with the statement "You made me Hokage" leads me to believe Minato really doesn't have any confidence in himself at all.

Which is lulzy.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Not really. Gaara has an insane guy was still intelligent and wise in a Hobbsian way.

Not really, but irrelevant regardless.

The minute became stable, he became very boring.

He did indeed. That doesn't make him a Mary Sue.

He *struggled* against Mizukage but won.

Well if winning fights makes you a Mary Sue, Minato must be the god of all Sues, for he hasn't lost a single fight in the manga.

We didn't get to see much of his fight with Muu but ultimately helps take him down and is the one who seals him up so well that Kabuto can't get him out.

Yes because being part of a three man effort to defeat a single very powerful foe makes you a Mary Sue.

And he is actually fairing quite well against Madara and has managed to do several things that a guy on his last legs should be able to do.

If by "fairing quite well" you mean he and Onoki both combined their powers to stop a meteor, only for Madara to casually create another one that devastated the Shinobi Alliance, and badly injured Onoki. Before you say anything, Gaara wasn't as injured because, you know, he wasn't physically touching the damn rock and had a skyscraper of sand between him and the explosion. Yet he was still injured.

As for him supposedly not being able to do that... Why aren't you complaining about Onoki flying up and stopping the meteor when he was canonically so low on chakra he had to pause because he could not do Dust Release. This is the same series where Sasuke caught a bolt of lightning and threw it while he had no chakra left.

Ah, but this isn't true. Minato's flaws, and why I like him, can be spotted.

Name his character flaws. The story presents Minato as nothing but ideal.

It's like finding Itachi's flaws, though Itachi's flaws have more to do with him being incredibly stupid than selfish, which was the case with Minato.

Itachi's flaws are very self-evident. Minato's are not. Minato is never portrayed as selfish.

Gaara simply has no flaws, no matter how I look.

He used to be a deranged serial killer. He developed past that. Part of being a good character is recognising you have flaws, and then working past them, growing out of them. This is what Gaara did. Unfortunately it made him very boring, but that does not make him suddenly a Mary Sue.

Does not matter. A can hit her all he wants, she will simply heal.

Because she can indefinitely heal forever right?

And considering all A can do is hit her, that will be a long battle.

Because she certainly has the chakra to outlast A, right?

Conversely, she *can* hit him and since he can't heal, this battle would really not be fair to him.

Not but he is much more durable and fast enough to actually dodge her blows.

Bee, who has way fewer strength feats than Tsunade, knocked A on his arse fairly easily. Tsunade would likely rip his arm off and beat him with it.

Bee is stronger than Naruto in his Kyuubi mode, Naruto's strongest mode. A was stated by Naruto to be strong enough to kill him with a single good punch. Oh, and he punched through a rib of Susano'o.

Nah.

I am afraid so. A has at the least comparable strength, is much faster, is more durable, and has far larger chakra. He is also the better fighter.

A would crush Tsunade. Stop letting personal bias cloud your reason.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Indeed. His flaw is being very pussy whipped. To the point where, at the very thought of losing his wife or seeing his wife in any sort of pain, he loses all composure. All of it. He attributes becoming Hokage to her, not himself. He doesn't gloat or brag like most when they win, which is usually what a character likes to do when he wins, which combined with the statement "You made me Hokage" leads me to believe Minato really doesn't have any confidence in himself at all.

Which is lulzy.

Being a caring, loving husband and being humble beyond reason are character flaws now?

He attributed his success to Kushina to emphasize to the reader how much he loves her.

He doesn't gloat or brag to show he's not a braggart, and is humble and more down to Earth.

Yeah, I'm not seeing any flaw there. OMG, he has a beautiful, strong wife and son that he loves! Gasp! And where does he lose composure? Never, is when. And he doesn't brag? OMG he's humble. WHAT A FLAWED HUMAN BEING! TRUELY HE IS A MODERN OEDIPUS, EXCEPT INSTEAD OF ****ING HIS MOM HE'S PERFECT AND BLOND.