The Official Naruto series Thread

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No you didn't, you are doing what you always do and are trying to cover your ass, you didn't mention that at all in the thread. And even if it is taken to account, LT is OMNIVERSAL, not Multiversal, but I know, Marvel doesn't actually have an Omniverse right? 😬 So because they are lasers, they must automatically be lightspeed, even though we clearly see them moving much slower? Sora magically had the Keyblade spin, he wasn't even holding the Keyblade.

2. Okay, lemme rephrase this then, the Eight Tailed is too fast, unpredictable and strong to react to. 🙂

1. untrue i never claimed it was cannon perce', only gave developer evidence for and against that position. LT is omniversal in marvel terms, which is using faulty definitions of words, the marvel omniverse is between a multiverse and a megaverse. the being dante helped defeat was beyond a multiverse in the correct sense of the word

lasers are lightspeed, the word your looking for is BEAMS which may or may not be lightspeed. you shud understand that the game developers have to take into account game mechanics. or do you actually beleive that it was YOUR humans reflexes which were keeping up with the superfast blade clashes between xemnas and sora or axel and roxas??!?!?!?! come ON man! sora wasnt magically spinning the keyblade if i remember correctly, it was in his hand and he was just moving blurringly fast but then again, its a VIDEO game, in reality, no1 can weild a rod with a handle like a keyblade at the angles sora weilds it. its a VIDEO game, get that in ur head {but hey why is it impossible to belive that sora can counter lightspeed when he is fighting beings that can destroy all of reality and winning??}

2. that is possible. well have to see in the coming chapter. but it isnt any shortgiving of the shaaringan. just the body of the user.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. untrue i never claimed it was cannon perce', only gave developer evidence for and against that position. LT is omniversal in marvel terms, which is using faulty definitions of words, the marvel omniverse is between a multiverse and a megaverse. the being dante helped defeat was beyond a multiverse in the correct sense of the word

lasers are lightspeed, the word your looking for is BEAMS which may or may not be lightspeed. you shud understand that the game developers have to take into account game mechanics. or do you actually beleive that it was YOUR humans reflexes which were keeping up with the superfast blade clashes between xemnas and sora or axel and roxas??!?!?!?! come ON man! sora wasnt magically spinning the keyblade if i remember correctly, it was in his hand and he was just moving blurringly fast but then again, its a VIDEO game, in reality, no1 can weild a rod with a handle like a keyblade at the angles sora weilds it. its a VIDEO game, get that in ur head {but hey why is it impossible to belive that sora can counter lightspeed when he is fighting beings that can destroy all of reality and winning??}

2. that is possible. well have to see in the coming chapter. but it isnt any shortgiving of the shaaringan. just the body of the user.

2. So they are lightspeed even though they clearly were much slower. Excellent. Sora was magically spinning it actually, it's sumthin common he does honestly. Most of Sora's powers all come from the magic of the Keyblade, without it he wouldn't be shit. Beings that can destroy all reality? Never happened.

3. Kay.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
mist =/= attack we are talking about attacks

gai didnt find a way to beat the shaaringan's PERCEPTION{which is the ONLY thing under scrutiny here} he found a way to bypass the shaaringan USER'S ability to react. gai isnt capable of attacks beyond the shaaringan's INSIGHT

predictable or unpredictable, the argument being posted was that the sharingan cudnt see 6 attacks simultaneously, while lee was doing hundreds probably in a second or so. and was still perceived

diedara attacked with more than 5 bombs and all were seen and countered, destroying the argument posted which claimed that the sharingan cudnt counter said number of attacks

sure, itachi wasnt trying, tsukiymo, amaterasu and susano isnt TRYING at all.

and get your facts straight, gai found out that looking at sum1's feat stop the sharingan user from casting GENJUTSU, it doesnt hamper their precognitive and insight power{which is the only hting being discussed here} in the LEAST. also, that was only with a normal sharingan user, kakashi, itachi disproved that by casting genjutsu on naruto with pointing just a finger with his CLONE, even when naruto was forcibly looking down and away from him.

Because Gai is so much faster than Kakashi...and it's not like he learned while fighting Kakashi to read the persons movement by looking at their feet beating the sharingan and it's attacks. Gai found out how to fool the sharingan..He even says it against Itachi.

Except being predictable means it's going to be easier to..well predict and see. Not to mention Lee wasn't doing a hundred attacks a second...Heck he was barley even attacking just running around faster than Gaara could react trying to get attacks in. Lee admits himself he can't charge straight in and attack. It's just like Lee when he became drunk. He didn't get any faster but got less predictable so Kimimaro couldn't block. Same applies to the sharingan it's seeming. Not to mention he's also doing the thing Gai found out. Not looking Sasuke in the eyes or really anywhere since he seems to be spinning around.

Bombs aren't exactly unpredictable attacks. They are thrown at you...and the ones underground are seen with his sharingan, and the ones that went inside are seen with his sharingan. Deidara throwing bombs isn't exactly the same. Not to mention Sasuke barley was able to dodge some of the bigger ones.

Did you even read the Sasuke/Itachi fight or just look at it? Because Itachi is dying, afterwards was said not to be even trying to kill him, even in the fight seemed to want Oro out to seal him, gives all his jutsu to Sasuke, and tells Naruto to basically save Sasuke and gives him something nobody even knows. Yea he wasn't trying. Sasuke was able to dodge Amaterasu which everybody loves to claim is a instant hit, Itachi never even attacked with Susanoo he just used it to block Kirin and seal Oro, and Tsukiyomi he didn't even really do anything with. So yea he didn't try. It's been stated plenty of times after the fight, during the fight Zetsu comments on how weakened Itachi is from something obviously meaning even if he had been trying he wasn't even at full power unlike Sasuke, and then Itachi's little chat with Naruto and giving Sasuke the MS all prove he wasn't trying.

Naruto wasn't looking away he was just looking away from his eyes. And Kakashi would be able to beat Gai easily if the whole looking at feet didn't work. Gai found a way to beat the sharingan.

Originally posted by Kento
Bombs aren't exactly unpredictable attacks. They are thrown at you...and the ones underground are seen with his sharingan, and the ones that went inside are seen with his sharingan. Deidara throwing bombs isn't exactly the same. Not to mention Sasuke barley was able to dodge some of the bigger ones.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I agreed with everything but this. The Sharingan does not allow you to see through matter, only the Byakugan can.

Originally posted by Kento
Yes it does. It's why Itachi was able to hit the hidden target when he was training when he was with Sasuke, it's why Kakashi can see the chakra circulatory system, it's why Sasuke knew where the underground bombs were.

Kakashi can't see the chakra circulatory system...It was made quite clear only the Byakugan users could.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Show me the hidden target thing.

Kakashi can't see the chakra circulatory system...It was made quite clear only the Byakugan users could.

And Kakashi said even his sharingan can't see the chakra points during the Neji/Hinata fight. Why would he say that if he couldn't see the circulatory system?

The sharingan can see through things it's just not it's main power so I doubt it's as powerful compared to the Byakugan when it comes to that. The sharingan is after all descendant of the byakugan. It would make sense for it to have kept some of the properties just not to the same extent. It has the insight also the byakugan has.

sometimes i get pissed off at how little they show in the manga

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. And in Marvel the Omniverse is an infinite amount of Multiverses. Shit, there are beings below the LT that are Omniversal, like Mad Jim Jaspers or HoM Scarlet Witch.

2. So they are lightspeed even though they clearly were much slower. Excellent. Sora was magically spinning it actually, it's sumthin common he does honestly. Most of Sora's powers all come from the magic of the Keyblade, without it he wouldn't be shit. Beings that can destroy all reality? Never happened.

3. Kay.

wrong use of terminology my friend. there is no such thing as a MARVEL omniverse. the omniverse is all the realities of all media including the real world we live in, combined. marvel is a megaverse and that is the extent of it, do not take comic book hyperbole to mean reality.

the werent clearly much slower, they were SLOWED DOWN so us humans cud have fun and understand what is going on on screen, a bit like when you play saint seiya the hades, and you can see lightbolts and thundrbolts etc travelling. game mechanics. im not saying he CANT magically spin the keyblade, im saying that i dont think he DOES at that time{either way it makes little difference to the original point which was sora reacting to lightspeed attacks} because the keyblade is very near his wrist and he was moving his arm a lot, unlike his valor/wisdom/mater/final forms in which he really is magically whirling the keyblade

and yes, xeonheart's heartless and xemnas cud both destroy every world in existance by using kingdom hearts n stuff. thats very easily implied.

Originally posted by Kento
I'm talking about the sharingan being fooled...And the mist is an attack of sorts. He creates the mist so nobody can see him.

Because Gai is so much faster than Kakashi...and it's not like he learned while fighting Kakashi to read the persons movement by looking at their feet beating the sharingan and it's attacks. Gai found out how to fool the sharingan..He even says it against Itachi.

Except being predictable means it's going to be easier to..well predict and see. Not to mention Lee wasn't doing a hundred attacks a second...Heck he was barley even attacking just running around faster than Gaara could react trying to get attacks in. Lee admits himself he can't charge straight in and attack. It's just like Lee when he became drunk. He didn't get any faster but got less predictable so Kimimaro couldn't block. Same applies to the sharingan it's seeming. Not to mention he's also doing the thing Gai found out. Not looking Sasuke in the eyes or really anywhere since he seems to be spinning around.

Bombs aren't exactly unpredictable attacks. They are thrown at you...and the ones underground are seen with his sharingan, and the ones that went inside are seen with his sharingan. Deidara throwing bombs isn't exactly the same. Not to mention Sasuke barley was able to dodge some of the bigger ones.

Did you even read the Sasuke/Itachi fight or just look at it? Because Itachi is dying, afterwards was said not to be even trying to kill him, even in the fight seemed to want Oro out to seal him, gives all his jutsu to Sasuke, and tells Naruto to basically save Sasuke and gives him something nobody even knows. Yea he wasn't trying. Sasuke was able to dodge Amaterasu which everybody loves to claim is a instant hit, Itachi never even attacked with Susanoo he just used it to block Kirin and seal Oro, and Tsukiyomi he didn't even really do anything with. So yea he didn't try. It's been stated plenty of times after the fight, during the fight Zetsu comments on how weakened Itachi is from something obviously meaning even if he had been trying he wasn't even at full power unlike Sasuke, and then Itachi's little chat with Naruto and giving Sasuke the MS all prove he wasn't trying.

Naruto wasn't looking away he was just looking away from his eyes. And Kakashi would be able to beat Gai easily if the whole looking at feet didn't work. Gai found a way to beat the sharingan.

the mist isnt an attack, its more akin to genjutsu{when it wast clearly defined in the beginning}

gai DIDNT find out how to fool the sharingan, he explains against itachi, that there are two ways to fight a sharingan USER{him referring to fighting without being trapped into genjutsu, which was the problem at the time as kuranai and asuma both had their eyes shut against itachi ans he wastalking to them}. it doesnt have anything to do with tricking the SHAARINGAN itself.

im talking about lee when he had the 5 gates open, he was attacking gaara hundreds of times in less than a second{not even letting him fall} and kakashi cud still see every attack with his shaaringan nto to mention see inside him as his gates were open and see his ligaments tear inside his skin{yes shaaringan can look through solid objects, thats how sasuke tells the team in the chuunin exams that the genjutsu/cloing enemies were below ground, also, sasuke cud see all the mines in the ground and that is how he was able to drive his sword right into one while it was still underground, also, itachi cud hit the target by deflecting kunai which was behind a rock outside of view dead centre with his shaaringan}

bombs rent the same, true, but the argument being made was that the shaaringan cudnt predict 7 or 8 attacks simultaneously which applies to the bombs.

itachi was weakened yes, but he wasnt dying , that was him using SUSANO. his REFLEXES as claimed by zetsu were screwed. still, it didnt stop him from using allhis most powerful techniques, he used tsukiyomi to max and sasuke countered it. he used amaterasu which sasuke avoided{please dont tell me now that he wasnt even aiming for sasuke because then sasuke wudnt need to use the kawarami} and he HAD to use susano to block kirin, otherwise, he wud have died, even for him, that attack can not be countered physically. we dont know the entire story about that fight yet.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
wrong use of terminology my friend. there is no such thing as a MARVEL omniverse. the omniverse is all the realities of all media including the real world we live in, combined. marvel is a megaverse and that is the extent of it, do not take comic book hyperbole to mean reality.

the werent clearly much slower, they were SLOWED DOWN so us humans cud have fun and understand what is going on on screen, a bit like when you play saint seiya the hades, and you can see lightbolts and thundrbolts etc travelling. game mechanics. im not saying he CANT magically spin the keyblade, im saying that i dont think he DOES at that time{either way it makes little difference to the original point which was sora reacting to lightspeed attacks} because the keyblade is very near his wrist and he was moving his arm a lot, unlike his valor/wisdom/mater/final forms in which he really is magically whirling the keyblade

and yes, xeonheart's heartless and xemnas cud both destroy every world in existance by using kingdom hearts n stuff. thats very easily implied.

2. We have only seen said "feat" in gameplay, and we saw they were slow. Not lightspeed. Yet you assume that because they are "lasers" they must be lightspeed, who is not to say they were simply balls of light animated by Xemnas' will? Oh and in cutscenes.......Sora is very slow. Like, really slow.

3. No they couldn't. Just another assumption by you to make the characters you like seem uber powerful.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the mist isnt an attack, its more akin to genjutsu{when it wast clearly defined in the beginning}

gai DIDNT find out how to fool the sharingan, he explains against itachi, that there are two ways to fight a sharingan USER{him referring to fighting without being trapped into genjutsu, which was the problem at the time as kuranai and asuma both had their eyes shut against itachi ans he wastalking to them}. it doesnt have anything to do with tricking the SHAARINGAN itself.

im talking about lee when he had the 5 gates open, he was attacking gaara hundreds of times in less than a second{not even letting him fall} and kakashi cud still see every attack with his shaaringan nto to mention see inside him as his gates were open and see his ligaments tear inside his skin{yes shaaringan can look through solid objects, thats how sasuke tells the team in the chuunin exams that the genjutsu/cloing enemies were below ground, also, sasuke cud see all the mines in the ground and that is how he was able to drive his sword right into one while it was still underground, also, itachi cud hit the target by deflecting kunai which was behind a rock outside of view dead centre with his shaaringan}

bombs rent the same, true, but the argument being made was that the shaaringan cudnt predict 7 or 8 attacks simultaneously which applies to the bombs.

itachi was weakened yes, but he wasnt dying , that was him using SUSANO. his REFLEXES as claimed by zetsu were screwed. still, it didnt stop him from using allhis most powerful techniques, he used tsukiyomi to max and sasuke countered it. he used amaterasu which sasuke avoided{please dont tell me now that he wasnt even aiming for sasuke because then sasuke wudnt need to use the kawarami} and he HAD to use susano to block kirin, otherwise, he wud have died, even for him, that attack can not be countered physically. we dont know the entire story about that fight yet.

The sharingan didn't suddenly get the pre-cog when Sasuke got the third tomoe. Kakashi has it, and Itachi has it. The fact that Gai found a way to fight a guy he's just as fast as or maybe a little faster but has the sharingan means he has fooled it. He isn't going to be able to blitz Kakashi so fast Kakashi can't respond. Same with Itachi. Even without the genjutsu he'd never have a chance without fooling the sharingan.

Except he wasn't attacking thousands of times a second..But that's beside the point. The point is that Lee doesn't move unpredictable which means the sharingan would be able to track him.

No the arguement was I believe that a sharingan can't predict 7 or 8 unpredictable attacks or however many times the 8-tails attacked. Bombs are completely different than the 8-tails and so is Lee. The bombs won't suddenly change directions and Lee isn't a unpredictable fighter.

Yes he was...Madara even says Itachi has been dying for a while but using herbs to slow it so he could give Sasuke his techniques. And Itachi already knew Sasuke had that technique and that he had Oro in him, and everything. All he wanted was to kill Oro and give Sasuke the MS jutsus. The only way to get Oro out was to get Sasuke to use all his chakra, the fastest way to get him to use chakra was to get him to use Oro's jutsu he used against the amaterasu. Itachi even comments on how much chakra it uses. Itachi also didn't use Tsukiyomi to the max. Susanoo also didn't kill him...him dying killed him. He just stalled long enough to give Sasuke what he wanted to. He never wanted Sasuke dead he wanted to protect him.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm familiar enough with Glaswegian to know that "bawbag" is the slang way of saying "ballbag". By what does "get it up ye ya" mean? Nothing can go up me bawbag. I don't understand the Glaswegian saying.

And I don't understand why the premise of this conversation is a big deal. So you don't have it, I provided it, end of story.

He's an octopus. So get it up ye bawbag, ya ripe fanny.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. So our universe is in some way connected to Marvel's? It's a friggin piece of paper dude. Piece of paper's are not gateways to other universes. Marvel is an Omniverse, stated many times.

2. We have only seen said "feat" in gameplay, and we saw they were slow. Not lightspeed. Yet you assume that because they are "lasers" they must be lightspeed, who is not to say they were simply balls of light animated by Xemnas' will? Oh and in cutscenes.......Sora is very slow. Like, really slow.

3. No they couldn't. Just another assumption by you to make the characters you like seem uber powerful.

in the same way that one page of a comic book is connected to the next, yes. the omniverse is all reality, media and otherwise, look up the definition. marvel uses wrong terminology and poetic hyperbole.

because they werent balls, they were beams geometrically. sora isnt slow in the cutscenes, watch the final one where he defeats xemnas with two keblades, other than that there are plenty.

kingdom hearts is the heart of ALL worlds, by using it, both cud positively destroy all worlds combined, that is made plenty clear in the game.

Originally posted by Kento
It wasn't anything like genjutsu ever...It was mist plain and simple. Something to conceal himself in. Which also fooled the sharingan by creating something it can't see in. Which is what I said. The sharingan has been fooled by Zabuza by making it unable to see anything.

The sharingan didn't suddenly get the pre-cog when Sasuke got the third tomoe. Kakashi has it, and Itachi has it. The fact that Gai found a way to fight a guy he's just as fast as or maybe a little faster but has the sharingan means he has fooled it. He isn't going to be able to blitz Kakashi so fast Kakashi can't respond. Same with Itachi. Even without the genjutsu he'd never have a chance without fooling the sharingan.

Except he wasn't attacking thousands of times a second..But that's beside the point. The point is that Lee doesn't move unpredictable which means the sharingan would be able to track him.

No the arguement was I believe that a sharingan can't predict 7 or 8 unpredictable attacks or however many times the 8-tails attacked. Bombs are completely different than the 8-tails and so is Lee. The bombs won't suddenly change directions and Lee isn't a unpredictable fighter.

Yes he was...Madara even says Itachi has been dying for a while but using herbs to slow it so he could give Sasuke his techniques. And Itachi already knew Sasuke had that technique and that he had Oro in him, and everything. All he wanted was to kill Oro and give Sasuke the MS jutsus. The only way to get Oro out was to get Sasuke to use all his chakra, the fastest way to get him to use chakra was to get him to use Oro's jutsu he used against the amaterasu. Itachi even comments on how much chakra it uses. Itachi also didn't use Tsukiyomi to the max. Susanoo also didn't kill him...him dying killed him. He just stalled long enough to give Sasuke what he wanted to. He never wanted Sasuke dead he wanted to protect him.

the point is it wasnt an ATTACK. and it was against a normal sharingan, and it was in the begining arc when the powers of the shaaringan hadnt been developed by the author. the initial point was that a physical attack cud fool the shaaringan.

yes that is exactly what hell do, use his superior taijutsu to fight with kakashi in ways he cant counter straight out with his body, looking at his feat is just a way to not get caught in his GENJUTSU. nuthing more to it

again this has beenn dealt with, unpredictably or predictably, its an argument against the multiple attacks argument posted earlier. {and yes it is hudreds of times.

no the argument was that the shaaringna cud be fooled by 8 or so attacks.

itachi DIDNT know he had uro in him at all. if u pay close attention, akatsuki beleived that sasuke KILLED uro, not ABSORB him. all itachi wanted, was to free sasuke of the CURSED SEAL{which is uro's INFLUENCE}, do remember that there is a difference between uro and his cursed seal. you have nuthing to say that itachi didnt use tsukiyomi to thwe max, NUTHING. same for amaterasu, it wud have hit sasuke. also, he died because he had to use susano, he was weakened, but not dying otherwise right there and then. and he wud have died if he didnt use susano, that is sumthing u keep forgetting.

Sasuke got saved by Suigetsu???

that's lame...

why isnt he using his mangekyo yet? trying to look cool??? pft

Originally posted by leonheartmm
in the same way that one page of a comic book is connected to the next, yes. the omniverse is all reality, media and otherwise, look up the definition. marvel uses wrong terminology and poetic hyperbole.

because they werent balls, they were beams geometrically. sora isnt slow in the cutscenes, watch the final one where he defeats xemnas with two keblades, other than that there are plenty.

kingdom hearts is the heart of ALL worlds, by using it, both cud positively destroy all worlds combined, that is made plenty clear in the game.

2. So they were beams? Excellent, cause you just said beams are not necessarily lightspeed, which they clearly were not. Ummm...Sora IS slow in most cutscenes.

3. And Xehanort's Heartless never absorbed it, and Xemnas only absorbed a fractured piece of it. 😐

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Just looked it up. The definition is all universes in a reality. So MArvel is not using it incorrectly.

2. So they were beams? Excellent, cause you just said beams are not necessarily lightspeed, which they clearly were not. Ummm...Sora IS slow in most cutscenes.

3. And Xehanort's Heartless never absorbed it, and Xemnas only absorbed a fractured piece of it. 😐

the definition is all realities in media. the omniverse only comes intp play in crossovers. any media {i.e. marvel, dc} can only have a megaverse to their domain

they were shaped like beams not like balls of light as you suggested. its only a desription of shape, not of properties. they were light speed.

3. xeonheart's heartless WUD have absorbed it if the door hadnt been closed and his strength destroyed by sora. and xemnas wud have absorbed the original {{or created another} if sora hadnt stopped him. really, WHAT exactly were sora and friends fighting for if not the safety of all realities?!?!?!?!?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the definition is all realities in media. the omniverse only comes intp play in crossovers. any media {i.e. marvel, dc} can only have a megaverse to their domain

they were shaped like beams not like balls of light as you suggested. its only a desription of shape, not of properties. they were light speed.

3. xeonheart's heartless WUD have absorbed it if the door hadnt been closed and his strength destroyed by sora. and xemnas wud have absorbed the original {{or created another} if sora hadnt stopped him. really, WHAT exactly were sora and friends fighting for if not the safety of all realities?!?!?!?!?

2. So they were beams. Kay. That means they do not always have to be lightspeed. They were not lightspeed.

3. There is a VAST difference between stopping a Multiversal threat from occurring and actually fighting a Multiversal opponent. Oh and btw...It's universal, each world is a planet.