USH'S MATRIX GAME FOURTH ASSIGNMENT (PHILOSOPHY PATH)- 'The Journey'

for the first part:
what i'm saying is that there is no difference (generally, meaning NOT from my point of view) between a percievable difference and an unpercievable one, it is there no matter if you percieve it or not.

BUT as i said, from the subject's point of view, yes, there is a difference. the biggest. an unpercievable difference might as well not even be there...

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The amtrix and all the programs in it were written speciffically for the inmates to not know they're there. thatt's their purpose. The machines would lose the control, otherwise. There ar e few who ever spot any tangible evidence..that something isn't right

"Percieveable difference like seeing people jumpt form rooftop to rooftop can be present to inmates. Police officers, bystander and such. For example, a woman is overwritten by an agent in a supermarket. Everyone around her sees it. In the real world things like that wouldnt happen.

Unpercievable things like being able to jack out, or eating a meal that your not really eating. Things like a childs birth are not real, children are grown. But inmates cant know this, it is an unpercievable difference."

"But Rade," says Melitus, "surely you can concede that the difference that an Agent might overwrite your programme or that you may have your physical body destroyed and so you die in the Matrix; that these differences are tangible. But as you say, the people in the Matrix do not perceive the possibility of these differences. So regardless of what they are programmed to perceive, how do you justify saying there is no tangible difference for them when very obvious ones exist? Tangible is irrelevant of what you perceive. The gun you do not see still kills you."

To Castor

"Even the jumping from rooftop to rooftop; whilst an inmate can observe these things, what he cannot perceive is that these things are possible. No matter how much he examines the rules of the world he lives in- like, say, a Physicist would- he will never discover this. He cannot perceive that he lives in a world where such rules can be broken. Yet this difference exists and is tangible."

"So you know there is a difference?"

"Well, of course WE know," says Melitus, "and with examination of the theory of the Matrix and its code we can perceive the basis of that difference, but an inmate cannot. As pointed out, to an inmate, the Matrix and the Real World is like the left starfield to the right; all those differences, but none of them can be seen. It is not within their capacity."

"So? How does this difference relate to us understanding Jericho. It sounds as if your trying to make some conclusion. Perhaps that if a person never left the matrix they could lead a perfect, or seemingly perfect, life? Our knowledge of the matrix perhaps is what makes us do what we do persay?"

(Castor is somewhat confused about the path of the questions.)

"If you want to understand Jericho," says Melitus, "you have to understand what he does. You are following his path; there is nothing for you at the end if you try and miss out the journey. Choice is very important in this matter and you must not chose in ignorance."

(oh...then i missunderstood the meaning of the world tangible 🙂 )

"yes, there are tangible differences" speaks Rade

Ok, waiting for others now, I think...

The difference is that we in the real world know when we enter the matrix what is going on. Outside we know what we are oding, what we are being used for. We are being used to free prisoners. Inside the matrix the coppertops(is that the right word?) have no idea that they are simply a source of energy for machines. Those that believe the truth would simply be admitted to an asylum. I s'pose what I am saying is that the difference is that we are allowed to know the truth."

Does that make any sense Ush?

"Well," says Melitus, "that is again more a difference between you and them, than a difference erbtween the 'real' world and the Matrix that is relevant for you and not for them."

"The real world is real, the matrix is not. The matrix is a system. The real world is a reality...Im not sure how else to say it Meltius. The matrix stands as a dependent on the real world, which is totally independant fo the matrix."

"You are not identifying how those differences are either perceivable or tangible," says Melitus. "And as I pointed out before, saying the Matrix is not real is misleading. It is obviously real- here you are inside it now. You are not imagining this, you are here. You work in it all the time; you would not wish it destroyed if it did not exist. It does exist, and it is real. What it is not is physical. But you seem to have difficulties pinning down what the tangible differences actually are.

"But still, let us move on. Now, let us consider the phenomenon of choice. Choice is important. Choices led both yourselves and myself to this place. I set you a particular choice to decide whether to follow this journey or not. But tell me, if after you had decided to drink the wine I then had you all shot through the head one by one and killed, and whilst this was happening one of you protested and I had said "but this is what your choice meant, you chose this", would you accept that defence from me?"

"yes, definitely" speaks Rade.
"we made a choice based on the presented terms. Not shooting anyone in the head wasn't one of them..so it was a possibility"

"So if I said you had chosen to be executed by being shot through the head, you would accept that you had in fact chosen that?"

"our choice was made on a considerable risk. we weren't knowing what we would face afterwards. Even if had said you wouldn't executes, we know better than to trust you. So whatever you would have said, it was still our choice of whether or not to take the risk.

so, yes...had we been shot, it would have been based on our choice of venturing into the unknown"

"Leaving aside matters of trust, and appreciating you knew there was a risk, the choice I presented you with was whether to follow the path of Jericho or not. If it turned out I had lied, and the choice was actually whether to be shot in the back of the head or not, nothing to do with Jericho at all, would you not say that to say you had chosen that fate would be unfair on you? It might be said you DESERVED it for trusting me, but could I truly say that you chose for that precise thing to happen?"

"i did NOT chose for that precise thing. i would have chosen that, indirectly, through my decision of trusting you. "

"You do actually think you made a conscious decision to be shot through the head? I think there are some who would take issue with that. They would say that being shot was a consequence of what you chose, but it is not something you made a conscious decision to have happen to you.

Let me make it more simple. If I ask you to chose between an apple and a pear, you chose the pear, and I give you an orange, and say the orange is what you chose... would you not protest that what you chose was the pear? You could apply your logic and say that in asking for the pear you invited being given the orange... but it was still hardly what you chose, was it?"

yes..though that is a simple relation between an object, wich i can visualise, and it's designated name. I speciffically ask for the apple.

In our case, my decision had a risk factor wich i would have to choose whether or not to take. I chose to risk it, with all that implies..including the possibility of being shot in the head.