Originally posted by Q'AniliaNevermind, it was a misunderstanding..sorry
Not sure I follow you there. What about the Forsaken/Undead part?
How do you feel about it anyways?.. Turning them into more of a "faction" than a race, which in turn.. ret-con's them out of any of what would be negative side-effects of being in that condition (being the victim of paladin beat-downs, or the inability to use holy magic, like being a priest)
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Nevermind, it was a misunderstanding..sorryHow do you feel about it anyways?.. Turning them into more of a "faction" than a race, which in turn.. ret-con's them out of any of what would be negative side-effects of being in that condition (being the victim of paladin beat-downs, or the inability to use holy magic, like being a priest)
I think Blizzard could've done it better. Solved it somehow. Although it's understandable that they chose the Forsaken for a faction and due to balance issues that would come out of them being treated as a race rather than a humanoid faction would be drastic, understandable that they did as they did there too.
In matter of lore, the actual joining between the Forsaken and the Horde is understandable. Sylvanas and her Forsaken are victims and Thrall has always kept an open mind to things.
But in terms of gameplay I don't think they could've made it balanced had they included Undead mechanics for them. Immune to a high degree of crowdcontrol and all that.
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
well I mostly watch Tankspot videos.. and they break the fights down very nicely.. I have yet to really have more than 2 wipes after watching their videos
(unless of course gear is preventing us from securing a win)
How far in is your guild? Or have you cleared it already?
Originally posted by BackFire
I'm leveling a shaman now. Currently at 54. Not bad considering 9 days ago he was 25.Very fun class. I know at end game they're supposed to have problems but if they remain as fun as they currently are I don't care.
On their own they may not do great, but groups love shamans. Just keep the correct totems down and people don't care what else you're capable of. We have one as our 3rd healer in 10M's when we need it. Otherwise he's acceptable-but-not-great dps. But yeah, an interesting class. It must be fun to play.
It's super fun, reminds me of the Red Mage in FFXI which I absolutely loved. All the specs seem fun as well. I leveled to about 52 as as Enhance and had a blast, just respecced a bit ago to Ele and the burst is great, lots of big numbers very quick. It's great being able to do everything.
The totem mechanic feels dated, though. It's a pain to have to re-drop every totem whenever you move 30 yards. They should do something about that, make a skill that allows you to call all of your totems to you or something. Or at least make the radius more than 30 yards. 60 would be good.
Totems confused me for so long that I was intimidated by the class. Now I'm similarly intimidated by combo points that Rogues use (I suck at phase 3 Malygos, for example). I'll personally never be touching either class. I do like the diversity in the classes though, and I adore our Shaman except when he steals my gear for his dps spec (enhancement?). Sucks about totem range though....didn't realize that was a problem.
Originally posted by BackFirethen you can probably drop all your totems mid-arena and have it affect the entire area... totem effects are way better than blessings.. plus you cant aoe them, in the same way you can purge blessings.. so I find them to be better
The totem mechanic feels dated, though. It's a pain to have to re-drop every totem whenever you move 30 yards. They should do something about that, make a skill that allows you to call all of your totems to you or something. Or at least make the radius more than 30 yards. 60 would be good.
Originally posted by Digithe classes in wow annoy the hell out of me.. since all they did was copy and butcher the ones from d2..
Totems confused me for so long that I was intimidated by the class. Now I'm similarly intimidated by combo points that Rogues use (I suck at phase 3 Malygos, for example). I'll personally never be touching either class. I do like the diversity in the classes though, and I adore our Shaman except when he steals my gear for his dps spec (enhancement?). Sucks about totem range though....didn't realize that was a problem.
Assassin - Traps (hunter), Martial arts w/ combo points (rogue
Barbarian - Shouts, whirlwind (warrior), weapon masteries (rogue / warrior)
Sorceress - not so annoyed by this one, since it was obvious to give it to mage.. however I am annoyed that mage gets a blademaster skill from warcraft 3 (mirror image)
Druid - went to druid, as expected.. except no summonings to be found
Paladin - Charge (went to warrior, 🙄 ), alot of the auras here (in d2) are far better and more useful than the auras found in wow.. I'm sure you're going to fear that whole 200 holy damage you take per hit against a retribution aura.. /sigh
Necromancer - practically all of his curses made it to warlock, with some small summonings.. deathknight stole his bone armor
which makes me wonder why deathknights get death and decay (which is a warcraft 3 Lich skill).. oh well.. wow is just a gigantic plot hole
I hope it gets back to being skill based instead of item based sometime down the road... otherwise that old republic mmo looks interesting
wow's fun.. but I get tired of being mowed down by people who had the privilege of getting in an imba arena team to get 230 dps weapons
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
the classes in wow annoy the hell out of me.. since all they did was copy and butcher the ones from d2..
Erm, then you might as well go ahead and be angry at every RPG video game ever. Pretty much all of them, WoW included, borrowed a myriad of elements from the old D&D tabletop RPG mechanics. Similarity isn't always a lack of ingenuity. Most times it just means that they're working within the accepted confines of the genre, where there are only certain types of characters and play elements that gamers will feel comfortable with. Most of the spells, abilities, etc. that you listed have been in dozens (hundreds?) of other games, and many that I've played and enjoyed.
Otherwise, your rant is whatever you want it to be. If you don't like the game, stop playing.
srug
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
the classes in wow annoy the hell out of me.. since all they did was copy and butcher the ones from d2..Assassin - Traps (hunter), Martial arts w/ combo points (rogue
Barbarian - Shouts, whirlwind (warrior), weapon masteries (rogue / warrior)
Sorceress - not so annoyed by this one, since it was obvious to give it to mage.. however I am annoyed that mage gets a blademaster skill from warcraft 3 (mirror image)
Druid - went to druid, as expected.. except no summonings to be found
Paladin - Charge (went to warrior, 🙄 ), alot of the auras here (in d2) are far better and more useful than the auras found in wow.. I'm sure you're going to fear that whole 200 holy damage you take per hit against a retribution aura.. /sigh
Necromancer - practically all of his curses made it to warlock, with some small summonings.. deathknight stole his bone armorwhich makes me wonder why deathknights get death and decay (which is a warcraft 3 Lich skill).. oh well.. wow is just a gigantic plot hole
I hope it gets back to being skill based instead of item based sometime down the road... otherwise that old republic mmo looks interesting
wow's fun.. but I get tired of being mowed down by people who had the privilege of getting in an imba arena team to get 230 dps weapons
It's not copied. It's a coincidence. I'd like to see you create all World of Warcraft classes without coming across Diablo similarities.
This post of yours makes me wonder. Do you know anything about lore? And for the record, Death and Decay was a Death Knight spell long before it was a Lich spell. Not that it matter, given they study the same school of magic.
Originally posted by DigiI really dont see the confines that you claim to exist.. people are far too creative to just give up or accept that they cant create something new... DnD wasnt the do-all end-all, and neither will WoW
Erm, then you might as well go ahead and be angry at every RPG video game ever. Pretty much all of them, WoW included, borrowed a myriad of elements from the old D&D tabletop RPG mechanics. Similarity isn't always a lack of ingenuity. Most times it just means that they're working within the accepted confines of the genre, where there are only certain types of characters and play elements that gamers will feel comfortable with. Most of the spells, abilities, etc. that you listed have been in dozens (hundreds?) of other games, and many that I've played and enjoyed.Otherwise, your rant is whatever you want it to be. If you don't like the game, stop playing.
srug
Comfortable? sure.. but not every RPG ever has copy pasted and thrown them in peoples face like its brand new...
OMG Socketed Items!.. oh snaps!.. Runes / Inscription!.. cuz we havent seen that before.. thats what my main point is.. they can do whatever they want, but they just chose not to, and its annoying
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
It's not copied. It's a coincidence. I'd like to see you create all World of Warcraft classes without coming across Diablo similarities.This post of yours makes me wonder. Do you know anything about lore? And for the record, Death and Decay was a Death Knight spell long before it was a Lich spell. Not that it matter, given they study the same school of magic.
Coincidence?.. so they just.. tripped over the entirety of every skill tree in Diablo 2 by accident? rofl..
oh wow.. you point out one thing that I'm incorrect about and its supposed to nullify my point?.. do go on.. this sounds interesting 🙂
what about the other 10 or so things I've listed?
As I said.. its blizzard.. they have such high standards, I dont see why they couldnt come up with all new classes.. or just you know.. use the ones straight from war3?.. oh but no.. instead they choose to mix the abilities of like 3 or 4 different units, then take diablo 2 gameplay.. and voila.. new class..
Also, are there any useless abilities in DnD?.. cuz WoW has plenty..
my warlock friend said he has at least an entire action bar of skills that he hasnt touched since level 60
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Coincidence?.. so they just.. tripped over the entirety of every skill tree in Diablo 2 by accident? rofl..oh wow.. you point out one thing that I'm incorrect about and its supposed to nullify my point?.. do go on.. this sounds interesting 🙂
what about the other 10 or so things I've listed?As I said.. its blizzard.. they have such high standards, I dont see why they couldnt come up with all new classes.. or just you know.. use the ones straight from war3?.. oh but no.. instead they choose to mix the abilities of like 3 or 4 different units, then take diablo 2 gameplay.. and voila.. new class..
Also, are there any useless abilities in DnD?.. cuz WoW has plenty..
my warlock friend said he has at least an entire action bar of skills that he hasnt touched since level 60
Glad to hear you're interested in what I have to say.
I pointed out that you were incorrect because you were incorrect, not to destroy your points. You do have points. Good ones. All I was trying to do was point out something you happened to be wrong about. A friendly gesture. I was trying to help, not destroy.
Death Knights had Death and Decay back in Warcraft 2.
What I'm saying is that just because Diablo 2 has these abilities, doesn't mean Blizzard just took them because they were out of ideas. They repeated them because they were good ideas. I'm willing to bet money on that even if Diablo 2 had not existed, the characters would've had these abilities. These functions.
A hunter has a trap. WOAH! Didn't see that one coming. We humans have used traps for many thousand years. The fact that a hunter class in World of Warcraft has it must be because Diablo 2 had it.
There has existed nations that used human and animal bones for armor. There has and still does exist people that believe they can curse others. Alexander the Great was mythed to have had an aura that boosted his men in his presence.
Are you going to say that the Rogue is a copy of Necromancer because it is using poison?
As good as every ability you have brought up would have come up even if Diablo 2 did not exist. A lot of the ones you've brougth up existed in games before Diablo 2.
People see what they want to see. And you wanted to see WoW classes as cheap copies of Diablo 2 classes. It's easy to do, since both parts has a fantasy foundation. Druids, warlocks, necromancers, sorceresses, assassins. All these classes has existed long before Diablo 2. Even long before computer games.
Well the thing is, it wouldnt have worked the same way if it werent for d2.. and I would have preferred it that way
Yeah hunters use traps.. but I'd rather it not be in the same fashion as assassin.. or not have rogues gain combo points just like assassins
even warhammer got stupid with that crap.. kisses and accusations../sigh
though I know its out of wow's technical capability to do anything more with skills considering the game has no physics at all
The only thing I can see not really being able to "make better" is auras.. because they are what they are, and there really is no other method of application for them other than affecting targets in a specific area
why arent they cheap copies?.. you can easily look at D2 barbarian's whirlwind.. and then look at WoW warrior's whirlwind and know that it wasnt a coincidence.. or their shouts.. its really just copy paste.... I think the rage system was really the only thing they added for that class....... which isnt that innovative since its just a reverse mana pool
I'd like if someone did these fantasy classes justice.. its just that noone wants to except blizzard or squaresoft these days
I think the point here is, SaT hates WoW but is still playing it. Or if he isn't, one wonders what his purpose in the thread here is. Kudos, bud. Constructive criticism is cool, and can benefit any game/enterprise/etc. But honestly, you just sound pointlessly whiny.
🙄
Btw, D2 is a Blizzard game. At least they're ganking their own formulas, which seemed to have worked in the past, instead of other companies.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
When was the last time you saw a Hunter's trap shoot lightning and fireballs and killing scores of enemies? Fact of the matter is, Hunter and Assassin traps are quite different.
As a matter of fact, now that I thought about it more, pretty much the only similarity between Hunter traps and Assassin traps are that they're called "traps". Assassin traps are visible, static turrets of mass destruction, and there can be plenty of them placed at the same time. On the other hand, Hunter traps are invisible and mostly have much more subtle affects, and only 1 is allowed(I think) at a time.