World of Warcraft

Originally posted by BackFire
Why is it bound to change at level 70? For one, no one knows how the game mechanics will progress after level 60 yet. It's possible that you don't even learn new ranks of skills. Assuming you do, though, wouldn't each class get a new rank of their main healing spell? Keeping the Shaman on top. Not to mention the shaman's quick heal is infinitely better than the Paladin one.

Why would learning new spells cease after 60? Do you really think that Blizzard will force players to take on Illidan's Black Temple, a level 70 40-man with outdated level 60 spells? As I said, the Paladin and Shaman main healing spells fluctuate in rank. Who knows how the pattern will continue after the 60 cap is breached?

Originally posted by BackFire
Lies. You are factually wrong, I know they can be main healers because I've been in a group where an elemental specced shaman was the main healer. And this isn't a rare occurance, a skilled shaman, who manages their mana and times their heals properly can main heal, regardless of spec.

Correct, people who do manage their mana like that can be the main healer, but they have to be very skilled at managing their mana. I don't know about you, but I can't count how many groups I've been where we grouped with a none-healing specc'ed Shaman where we've wiped at least once. I don't deny that there are people who can do that, but the more average players(and there's a crapload of those) can't. You can't always judge completely off of your own experience.

The most recent experience I've had was with a Enhancement Shaman acting as main healer in Zul'Farrak. He had much more mana to work with than an Elemental shaman and still couldn't heal us well enough. I lost count of how many times we wiped that day.

Originally posted by BackFire
You seem to be forgetting that Shamans can also carry two handed weapons and have windfury weapon, which is just deadly.

Originally posted by BackFire
And then you said that no racial ability would compare to a powerful class, so make up your mind. Blood Elves will be very popular at first, because they are a nice looking class and have a neat looking starting area. But once the novelty wears off, and people get to level 20, many will move on.

Originally posted by BackFire
Doesn't matter if you understand why they'd do, people do do it. People make multiples of the same class just because they enjoy the class. I would get bored too, I don't understand it either, but people do do it.

Originally posted by BackFire
Basis for what?

Originally posted by BackFire
Durotar, Barrens (worst zone in the game, poorly laid out, way to big, ugly, boring, redundant, lazy and generic quests and too many loudmouthed teenagers ruining the general chat) and Thousand Needles all look about the same. Just rocky, desert zones.

Boring zone. Boring quests. Makes sense to me.

Originally posted by BackFire
At least there's a story beyond "kill these quillbore because they're stealing our shit, and kill these Zhevras because they're kinda annoying".

Originally posted by BackFire
Yeah, it makes sense too, the warchief, arguably the most powerful being on Azeroth, is concerned about some level 12 warlocks on a cave. Totally works. Killing things that are so obviously out of his level range and who would totally kill him really makes the quest feel important. Those level 12's would **** him up bad.

Originally posted by BackFire
Sweet, didn't know killing some meany orcs in robes was all that engaging. Whatever floats your boat, though.

Originally posted by BackFire
Dude, it's a ****ing prison, of course it's going to be cramped. What are you expecting? Open spaces with flowers and happy faces on some big beautiful trees. Come on. As you said, you don't like it, fine, at least acknowledge WHY it's like that.
Yes, I've been through RFC. Nothing special. It's a colorful cave with a maze in it. It's at least twice as aesthetically pleasing as Stockades? Hmmm, I dunno, I think it might be four times as aesthetically pleasing, or maybe five. I dunno, I should probably get my calculator and figure it out.

Originally posted by BackFire
Yes, so why would the gods allow them to use this mysteriously stolen holy power?

Originally posted by DarkC
Maybe the role of best healer isn't "bound" to change, but as far as we know, Blizzard hasn't been exactly predictable with their actions.

Hence when I said "For one, no one knows how the game mechanics will progress after level 60 yet". So yes, we agree, it isn't bound to change then, glad you admit you were wrong.

Originally posted by DarkC
Why would learning new spells cease after 60? Do you really think that Blizzard will force players to take on Illidan's Black Temple, a level 70 40-man with outdated level 60 spells? As I said, the Paladin and Shaman main healing spells fluctuate in rank. Who knows how the pattern will continue after the 60 cap is breached?

As you said, Blizzard hasn't been predictable. Who cares if they fluctuate? I'm speaking soley from an end game perspective here. At level 60 Shaman's are better healers.

Originally posted by DarkC
How is it "lying" if I speak from experience?

Correct, people who do manage their mana like that can be the main healer, but they have to be very skilled at managing their mana. I don't know about you, but I can't count how many groups I've been where we grouped with a none-healing specc'ed Shaman where we've wiped at least once. I don't deny that there are people who can do that, but the more average players(and there's a crapload of those) can't. You can't always judge completely off of your own experience.

You lie because you said that they CAN'T be a main healer, when apparantly you are now recognizing that they can, but that it's a rarity.

I can't judge completely from my own experience? So the fact that I have been in groups with Shaman who have been specced something other than healing, and they main healed, doesn't mean that it can happen? Makes sense, because you're not talking from your own experience or anything, right?

Originally posted by DarkC
The most recent experience I've had was with a Enhancement Shaman acting as main healer in Zul'Farrak. He had much more mana to work with than an Elemental shaman and still couldn't heal us well enough. I lost count of how many times we wiped that day.

For a Shaman to be a main healer, the group has to be very very good, as well as the Shaman.

Originally posted by DarkC
You seem to not take into account that Shamans, most of the time, don't have quite as much strength as a fully specc'ed Paladin; nor the fact that Paladins also have Blessing of Might, Seal of the Crusader, Hammer of Justice, etc.

The fact that they can have an enchantment on constantly that gives them a 33% chance to hit multiple times certainly makes up for that. A Shaman can easily out damage a warrior, a Paladin cannot.

Originally posted by DarkC
Is the Shaman being completely cut off from the Horde? No. It's simply making the option open to the Alliance, which you believe to be better over quest content and zones; these can deviate based on other people's opinion. We already discussed this. And we don't necessarily know what the final result will be.

Yep. I think it is going to hurt the overall population, which is the last thing they need, since the population numbers are already ****ed up.

Originally posted by DarkC
I assume they're not everyday people.

Don't make that mistake, you'd probably be surprised by the number of people who do it, for a number of reasons. Someone may want to level the class on a PVP server if they made their initial character on a PVE server. Some people may want to be a new race which they think is an improvement over the current one. Or some people want to try the other faction, but don't want to take a chance of playing a class they don't like, so they'll play one they've already leveled. Or they may just like the class so much that they want to experience leveling with that class again.

Originally posted by DarkC
Selecting which faction to go with.

Being a pretty character is certainly a basis when choosing what faction you want. Several of my friends, for instance, all played alliance because they didn't like the way the horde looked. That's why Night Elves are the most played race, because they're seen as the 'prettiest'.

Originally posted by DarkC
Considering the lore, would you really have expected any different?

Boring zone. Boring quests. Makes sense to me.

No, but I'd expect better content, better, more interesting quests.

Originally posted by DarkC
Would you expect too much excitement from a savannah zone?

In a game called "World of Warcraft" yes I would.

Originally posted by DarkC
No, you've got it wrong again. From that, I assume you haven't read Cycle of Hatred. It's not the servants of the Burning Blade that concern him, it's the things they're plotting. That's right, they're "servants". And they, as sure as hell, serve some minor demon, probably some servant of a higher demon yet.

Ah, so now I have to read some novel to enjoy the lore behind a quest? That's crap. Like Thrall couldn't just kill whatever demon the level 12's can summon.

Originally posted by DarkC
What can I say, as an orc warrior I'm a servant of the Horde and fiercely loyal to Thrall in particular.

How sweet. Changes nothing about the lore behind the quests though.

Originally posted by DarkC
Just because it's a prison means it's automatically going to be cramped? That's always the first impression. There could have been multiple levels, a little wider open staircases, an executional/interrogation chamber, doors ripped open and set on fire. I could have thought up at least a couple other things that would make it less repetitive.

Yes, it does mean it's going to be cramped. Why would they waste time and space making a prison roomy? Would you want there to be multiple levels? Just means the instance would take longer. Yeah, having shit on fire would have been nice, but would that have reall made you like the instance anymore?

Originally posted by DarkC
They don't. It was "stolen", remember?

And the gods don't realize that some evil race stole their powers? They don't stop them? It's such stupid, lazy lore. Really, I guess it fits in perfectly in WoW then.

Originally posted by DarkC
I've read the chunk he pulled out, I don't see where it includes the part about "conveying ideas".

ugh... I just said he clipped it out in his favor.. thats why you dont see it.. -_-....

Originally posted by DarkC
And as I've told you before; you're not being very clear.

yeah.. I just say something and you reply with a statement that displays you not following me...I'm not clear.. lol

Originally posted by DarkC
No, you weren't on the same page. Go check the Talent Calculator; there's one talent point out of that entire pane that has to do with 2H weapons and it's the ability to use them. Why would the pane be more beneficial to solely 2H wielders? There's a shield talent in there as well, why wouldn't it also be useful for shield/1H users?

because you have to invest around 20 points to use the 2 hander...thats alot of points to invest in something that you wouldnt consider beefing up... even if there are other paths to take around the skill.. its a very good skill to not learn

Originally posted by DarkC
Hahahahaha, another nonsense notion. Their "oldest" cultures? Don't talk silly. On Draenor, orc magic had been strictly elemental and Shamanistic for centuries before they were used as the pawns of the Burning Legion. They were a very noble race. Compared to Shamanism, Warlocks are relatively new.

I was under the impression that draenor was without elements... though I havent skimmed through any of its history (aside from what I've seen in the frozen throne)

Originally posted by DarkC
Why would the Undead backstab the Horde? It'd be them against the world, when they're trying to get back against Arthas too. It'd be a very stupid idea. The Blood Elves weren't using them for their power either. They were trying to be accepted back into the Alliance, who rejected them. It's more like the other way around, the Horde's using the Blood Elves for their power.

heh.. do you got an undead character?.. I'm pretty sure sylvanus mentions a few times about her priority of remaining in the good graces of the rest of the horde.. and no.. the blood elves need more power, and require the hordes aid to claim it... read the BE's wow story

Originally posted by DarkC
So, in your sense, people could only resist being consumed by their own magic if they were 'heroes'? Absurd.

Originally posted by DarkC
And no. I call things as I see it.

indeed...

Originally posted by DarkC
That's probably part of the reason that competitive PvP doesn't start until you're at least level 10 and have the fundamentals.

well even in the later levels people get 'totally new' skills.. i.e. paladin - Blessing of freedom... prior to this level.. mages have a larger chance to slow the paladin down due to his reliance on cleanse (frost nova takes 2 cleanses to remove for some ungodly reason)

Originally posted by DarkC
Don't be silly. You said it yourself; the World of Warcraft isn't a static universe; with all the interaction going on, there's changes that are going to be made.

Originally posted by DarkC
And I've said this before; they didn't do this based on the lore, they did it in terms of game mechanics. The lore may be controversial, but they did their best to adapt.

Originally posted by DarkC
Then stick with him and don't complain about it.

I have been sticking with him.. but I'm sure you'd get pissed too if every damn patch you saw a nerf under your class

Originally posted by DarkC
What? No. I referred to +Healing Spells as a less priority than, say, stamina or strength. It certainly is nice to have, but it's not a major statistic. As a Paladin, which would you rather prefer?

actually no.. Intellect is the top priority for the healing type... they even go so far as to wear cloth...

personally.. my paladin type isnt well thought of, because its selfish.. I basically ride the winds of luck for crits... so what I prefer is strength and crit.. I could care less if nothing else exists on the armor

Originally posted by DarkC
Hahahaha....assuming again, are we? Didn't I tell you that I play Alliance on a different server? They heal, true, but if there's a priest in the group they don't nearly have to as much. I didn't say they didn't heal at all in a group, they're just not nearly as effective at it as a priest or a restoration Druid.

Originally posted by DarkC
It's just their culture, to name their own Paladin order. Like the humans have their Knights of the Silver Hand prior to the Reign of Chaos. I don't see why exactly they should have renamed it just for that.

-----------------------------

and yes Vinny, I know its just a game.. but I seem to have the crappy luck of picking the red-headed stepchild character, or class in most of the games I play

I wont be on WoW for like a month 😬
I'll try to get on when I can though

Originally posted by BackFire
Hence when I said "For one, no one knows how the game mechanics will progress after level 60 yet". So yes, we agree, it isn't bound to change then, glad you admit you were wrong.

Originally posted by BackFire
You lie because you said that they CAN'T be a main healer, when apparantly you are now recognizing that they can, but that it's a rarity.

Originally posted by BackFire
I can't judge completely from my own experience? So the fact that I have been in groups with Shaman who have been specced something other than healing, and they main healed, doesn't mean that it can happen? Makes sense, because you're not talking from your own experience or anything, right?

And yes, I was talking from my own experience, regardless of what you may think.

Originally posted by BackFire
For a Shaman to be a main healer, the group has to be very very good, as well as the Shaman.

But...does that happen every day, every time you group? I'd be amazed if you said yes.

Originally posted by BackFire
The fact that they can have an enchantment on constantly that gives them a 33% chance to hit multiple times certainly makes up for that. A Shaman can easily out damage a warrior, a Paladin cannot.

Originally posted by BackFire
Yep. I think it is going to hurt the overall population, which is the last thing they need, since the population numbers are already ****ed up.

1.) Alts don't really count as a population increase.
2.) People who actually will add to the population are people who are going to cross factions or servers.
3.) If people are going to make an Alliance Shaman, it won't be always for the lore and content.

Originally posted by BackFire
Being a pretty character is certainly a basis when choosing what faction you want. Several of my friends, for instance, all played alliance because they didn't like the way the horde looked. That's why Night Elves are the most played race, because they're seen as the 'prettiest'.

Originally posted by BackFire
No, but I'd expect better content, better, more interesting quests.

Originally posted by BackFire
In a game called "World of Warcraft" yes I would.

Even with its dynamic world, it's not like the entire world is waging war across every zone.

Originally posted by BackFire
Ah, so now I have to read some novel to enjoy the lore behind a quest? That's crap. Like Thrall couldn't just kill whatever demon the level 12's can summon.

Originally posted by BackFire
Yes, it does mean it's going to be cramped. Why would they waste time and space making a prison roomy? Would you want there to be multiple levels? Just means the instance would take longer. Yeah, having shit on fire would have been nice, but would that have reall made you like the instance anymore?

Originally posted by BackFire
And the gods don't realize that some evil race stole their powers? They don't stop them? It's such stupid, lazy lore. Really, I guess it fits in perfectly in WoW then.

If someone prays to them, they either answer or they don't. However, Blood Elf Paladins are different, they actually tap a source of holy energy that they had for themselves, they don't need to pray to get Paladin powers.

Originally posted by DarkC
That still doesn't explain your theory that the Shaman will still be the better class after the expansion.

They're the better class now, IMO. They can do just as much and then some. This won't magically change with the expansion.

Originally posted by DarkC
The fact that you're saying that they "can" automatically implies that the entire class, regardless of spec and being controlled by the average player automatically makes them capable of main healing?

Where the hell did you pull that from? Can doesn't mean every average player playing a shaman can be a main healer. It means what the word means, that it is possible, it does happen, it can happen. Not that it's easy or that it's standard.

Originally posted by DarkC
Wrong. I didn't say you can't judge from your own experience, I said that you couldn't judge completely from your own experience, meaning that you had to take capability and other things into account, including experience from others. Sure, your experiences have merit, but what about those of others? Apparently not, you have the audacity to accuse me of lying when I put mine on the table.

Lying because, again, you said that Shaman CAN'T be main healers. As in, it's not possible, it can't be done. It CAN be done, it's just difficult, which you know and have admitted, hence, you were lying when you said that they couldn't be main healers. Not rocket science here. You said something was false when it was true, hence - lying.
And yes, I was talking from my own experience, regardless of what you may think.

Originally posted by DarkC
Yeah, exactly. Good to see you acknowledge that.

But...does that happen every day, every time you group? I'd be amazed if you said yes.

No it doesn't, never said it does, never actually implied that it does, only in your stranger, baseless opinion does "can" mean it happens all the time.

Originally posted by DarkC
A 33% chance for a multiple strike on the same target vs. nearly +400 attack power for a certain amount of time, what do you think?

I'll take a 33% chance to strike twice anyday. Besides, Shaman also have a self buff that increases their attack power by a lot for a set amount of time. But with a good Two Handed weapon the chance to hit twice with it is far better than increased attack power.

Originally posted by DarkC
I'll admit to it tipping the scales in the Alliance's favor, but not in the magnitude that you described. It won't get ****ed up.

It already is ****ed up, what Blizzard is doing is just going to make matters worse in the long run. Plus, now apparantly Blood Elves can't be warriors. Which is very detrimental.

Originally posted by DarkC
1.) Alts don't really count as a population increase.
2.) People who actually will add to the population are people who are going to cross factions or servers.
3.) If people are going to make an Alliance Shaman, it won't be always for the lore and content.

1. They do if they become a persons main character, which is going to be a regular occurance once the expansion comes out.

2. So?

3. Never said it was, many, however, will.

Originally posted by DarkC
It's what was on my mind when I made a night elf rogue.

And you say that it's not a basis for choosing a race? When now you say it was your basis for choosing a Night Elf.

Originally posted by DarkC
It's Durotar, the orcs have just settled in. I really wouldn't expect any conspiracy plots, other than the Burning Blade, to start threatening it straightaway.

I wasn't really reffering to durotar, more or less Thousand Needles and The Barrens.

Originally posted by DarkC
Hahaha, it's a franchise name. Don't always judge based on that. It's accurate as it can be.

Even with its dynamic world, it's not like the entire world is waging war across every zone.

Fair enough, still doesn't excuse the piss poor quests in The Barrens and Thousand needles, along with the second rate lore behind said quests.

Originally posted by DarkC
No, you don't have to, but it certainly helps. And it's quite an entertaining read. Try not to think of it as a chore.

Apparantly I do have to, since "read this book" was your retort to my complaint about some lousy quests that I wasn't enjoying.

Originally posted by DarkC
Wait, what? So you're saying that the Stockade is one of the most exciting instances for its level range, and you also think that Blizzard shouldn't have wasted time trying to make it look a little better?

No, Stockades isn't the most exciting dungeon for its level range, never said that, not once. I said it's efficient in how much EXP it offers and how quickly you can get it done. I also didn't say Blizzard shouldn't take time to improve, I merely asked you if adding some fire would suddenly make you enjoy it more.
They lend their powers, just like the Spirits of the World for Shamans.

Originally posted by DarkC
If someone prays to them, they either answer or they don't. However, Blood Elf Paladins are different, they actually tap a source of holy energy that they had for themselves, they don't need to pray to get Paladin powers.

Yeah, and apparantly these almight gods are too stupid to realize that an inherently evil race is using their devine powers for their evil, selfish needs. If it's this easy to steal powers, why not have the humans steal Shaman powers, why not have Undead steal Druidic powers. Both make about as much sense as Blood Elves being Paladins.

wth happened in here? O .o

In raid content MC/BWL/and everything else up Pallies > Shamen, the totems are on such short timers in comparison to pally auras and blessings. And pallies have Blessing of Protection and also Divine shield which make them the best boss multiple mob pullers out there.

have a 60 of every class except shaman 😛 and i got the above comment from a FoH (Fires of Heaven) horde member and from my own experience 😛

in my personal viewpoint.. PvP > PvE.. so paladins PvE abilities mean jack to me

I have never played this game before, but I want to try it out. I was wondering what race is the funnest to play?

Well.. I'm not going to decide for you which is funnest... I choose by aesthetics

you should try base your choice on the following : looks , racial ability , and class choices (as not all races can be all classes)

heres a link to aid in your informed decision
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/races/index.html

Iv'e just finished playing WoW as got bored of it. i played on Thunderhorn and was a lvl 60 shaman called Raxarus, but i am thinking of rejoining.

I have an account now. Bwahahaahahaha!

My account's expired about 3 weeks ago, I'll start it up again once BC comes out, since I'm really liking a lot of the changes their making, particularly the one they're making to the Honor system.

I don't understand that system, by hte way 😬 and what's with this "Honorable Jills stuff"

Originally posted by moviefreak_173
I have never played this game before, but I want to try it out. I was wondering what race is the funnest to play?

Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
I don't understand that system, by hte way 😬 and what's with this "Honorable Jills stuff"

i can't wait till BC though were all going to ge owned by the blood elves silence spell, so watch out for the locks and mages. ( and pallys)

I'm so lost now having not been here for many months. All i can say is that peopleshouldnt sit here and whine or defend the game or any patches or upcomming events because it is pointless and time consuming, unless your into that. I recently trasferred my rogue to Azshara his name is hed. Send me an invite if ya see me. 🙂

Is I the only one who Hate this game.. ? 😐