Originally posted by Gregory
The Bible is not a history book. It is a religious document. And I think you're engaging in circular reasoning:How do I know that the Bible is historically accurate? Because the things it described happened.
How do I know that the things it described happened? Because the Bible says so.
tell me one verse THAT YOU HAVE READ that has contradicted another verse, oh and the Bible isn't really a religious book, infact it's more of a book that you can read that'll give you good advice and some guidelines, not to mention it's history part and all it's morals, and then then it also says what'll happen in the future. It's really not religious at all, and we don't think it is either, why don't you try reading it. Simple as that, go ahead and take a look at Genesis, Psalms and Proverbs, and Revealation, and that good shizzle.
and one proof of it's history part. Jesus.
It happened whether you believe it or not. Sorry
I beleive that a lot of the things in the bible happened, though I don't beleive they happened like they are often said to have been. For example, (and you can call me whatever you want for this) a friend of mine who read "The DaVinci Code" said that in the painting "The Last Supper", the figure shown just below Jesus has unusually feminine characteristics. Now, as you know, there were no female desciples. So who the hell is that? Mary wasn't at the Last Supper.
At the time, it was absolutely unheard of for a Jewish male above the age of 20 to be unmarried. Nobody cared if you claimed to be (or really were) the Son of God. If you were male, you got married. Period. People have theorized that the person in that painting is Jesus' wife. I know you're going to disagree with me on this, I just thought it was an interesting point--not everything in the Bible happened the way it was supposed to have.
Originally posted by The Force
tell me one verse THAT YOU HAVE READ that has contradicted another verse
Go wild:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml
Originally posted by finti
doesnt the bible say that God created all the land animals on the 6th day, the same day he created mankind?
This would indicate that man and dinosaurs lived at the same time, anohter flaw.And the mentioning of behmoth,is by many belived to be a word of Egyptian origin signifying "water ox." The description of the animal in the book of Job sounds very much like a hippopotamus.
Leviathan, well humans have believed and feared the monster of the sea, also a creature that pops up in different mythologies.
Can be all from a whale to a big ass octopuss
yes that is what happened and that is what we believe.
But i have a theory to go along with that since Creation says that man isn't evloving, God said we were done he made us, anyways instead we are actually going backwards because of the sin, which brings death sickness...etc..., everything coincided in peace. And since sin brought death, that knocks out anything chance of living forever. God had made us perfect which means we were all geniuses, not stupid "oh look we just made fire" cavepeople. And since the dinos were living with us and our animals... What would you do if you saw a 20 foot lizard snacking on you cattle? Duh your gonna go get a bunch of you buddies and your going to kill it, but also to think ahead, you might as well kill any of the other big lizards that you can find.
Besides didn't like some scientists confirm that dinosaurs had slower reproduction rates? The theory goes hand in hand with the Creation Model.
Just hold on alittle while and let me find Job then i'll tell you the exact verse.
Originally posted by The Force
yes that is what happened and that is what we believe.
But i have a theory to go along with that since Creation says that man isn't evloving, God said we were done he made us, anyways instead we are actually going backwards because of the sin, which brings death sickness...etc..., everything coincided in peace. And since sin brought death, that knocks out anything chance of living forever. God had made us perfect which means we were all geniuses, not stupid "oh look we just made fire" cavepeople. And since the dinos were living with us and our animals... What would you do if you saw a 20 foot lizard snacking on you cattle? Duh your gonna go get a bunch of you buddies and your going to kill it, but also to think ahead, you might as well kill any of the other big lizards that you can find.Besides didn't like some scientists confirm that dinosaurs had slower reproduction rates? The theory goes hand in hand with the Creation Model.
Just hold on alittle while and let me find Job then i'll tell you the exact verse.
you do know that there is a massive amount of scientific data to explain that ppl and dino's didn't live simultaniously
I knew this thread was going to turn into a Creation vs Evolution topic.
What surprises me is that how people defend their ideas. I again ask you all (both creationist and evolutionist) to ask your selves "Where did these ideas came from?" The answer is the same! They came from someone else! They didn't just POP in your heads! They came from a source outside of your self!
Now it is fair to ask what my beliefs are! Okay I will tell you I believe that "God" is a "Philosophical" being that continually uses the methods of Thinking, Perception, Experience, Sensation, and even Logic to communicate with us! It is because of God's mind that we are allowed to think! Of course we don't possess God's method of thinking since we don't have his "ESSENCE". Like it or not! God essence is NOT attainable by any human! But some how his thinking is LINK to us!
At one point in our existence we experience something unusual. Something undescriable. Could that be God trying to send you a message? Possible. For me God does try to communicate with us all but we just cannot grasp his message!
As I said before the God I believe in is not the one found in any religious books! The only way to know God is by studying the one thing he has given us, which is "Philosophy". God is the Ultimate Thinker, from where our ideas originated.
How can I prove it? Well, I'm still reading philosophy, I'm still searching for God. Will I find God? I dunno but the journey is more ambitious than the goal.
Religion based on faith? Maybe. Science is base on Fact? Could be. But ask yourself.......how did all this train of thought's originated in my head? What does your head possess? It possess the power to "think".
Originally posted by The Force
yes that is what happened and that is what we believe.
But i have a theory to go along with that since Creation says that man isn't evloving, God said we were done he made us, anyways instead we are actually going backwards because of the sin, which brings death sickness...etc..., everything coincided in peace. And since sin brought death, that knocks out anything chance of living forever. God had made us perfect which means we were all geniuses, not stupid "oh look we just made fire" cavepeople. And since the dinos were living with us and our animals... What would you do if you saw a 20 foot lizard snacking on you cattle? Duh your gonna go get a bunch of you buddies and your going to kill it, but also to think ahead, you might as well kill any of the other big lizards that you can find.Besides didn't like some scientists confirm that dinosaurs had slower reproduction rates? The theory goes hand in hand with the Creation Model.
Just hold on alittle while and let me find Job then i'll tell you the exact verse.
Dude... Don't tell me you think a bunch of Neanderthals, (which didn't exist at the time of the dinosaurs, nor, for that matter, did any humanoids or even any MAMMALS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD) made the dinosaurs go extinct. That's a theory similar to one I thought of back in preschool--"They died of old age".
Plus, if we're evolving backwards, wouldn't we be even more primitive than the early humanoids were? Or did they have super-fast computers, regular flights to Mars, and cures for every illness on earth? Please tell me if I'm missing something there.
And disease... That's been around for as long as there has been life on the planet--why? Disease is caused by life. My little buddy Neisseria meningitidis, one of the causes of bacterial Meningitis, was around long before we were. He doesn't exist because we do.
In the book of Job God shows Job 2 of the dinosaurs that He had created, if you want to know how we know that they are dinosaurs, it's because that's exactly as the Bible describes them.oh please tell me the verses in Job that this is described, the bible doesnt describe them as dinosaurus
Whether he is divine or not doesn't matterof course it matters the entire world of christians cling to that fact.
yes that is what happened and that is what we believeyou believe man lived side by side with dinosaurs????
Yeah what next the flood actually happened 🙄
, oh and the Bible isn't really a religious book,you must be joking
Just hold on alittle while and let me find Job then i'll tell you the exact verse.try verse 41 , and the thing described sounds like a mix of a hippo and a crocodile.
MCELite> A television program can be made to prove anything. Have you seen the programs that tried to prove man never went to the moon? That Tyrannosaurus is a scavenger?
Ideas, hypothesis and wishful thinking CAN be made to look like real evidence in those programs. Discovery is popular science, not REAL hard-fact science all the time.
And fanatics have been known to FAKE stuff before, because they believe so unquestioningly that it’s not really “faking” it in their eyes.
A… dragon?? Can you supply any links to that? Any proof? Do not believe anything you see or hear. Do some research yourself, test the statements, see if they’re true.
What “census records and other stuff” are you talking about? Can you give me a link to a site with these things, so I can read them? Or hear scientists discuss them?
“i cant believe ur saying that this doesnt prove jesus exsisted because these records dont prove him divine”
I’m not asking for proof of divinity. I’m asking for proof that the man Jesus described in the Bible ever existed. I can’t believe you can’t believe I won’t just believe in stuff that cannot be proven.
Kaleanae> I did not say you claimed the Earth is 6000 years old. I asked you, since if you count through the Bible, as Bishop Ussher did, then the Earth is 6000 years old, and you said you’d read most of the Bible.
Raventheonly> If something is based on faith it IS believing something is true in the absence of proof. But you claimed Jesus definitely existed. I’m just asking you to prove that to me.
But if you just BELIEVE that Jesus existed to have insurance then you cannot give me proof, and can at least admit that, no?
TheOnePart2> We’re not talking about whether or not anyone in the year 4004 can prove that I existed in 2004. I’m not a Messiah, a messenger of God or divine.
I just want you to supply me with proof – e.g. links to scientific sites that proves Jesus existed.
Finti> An English bishop in the 17th century or so named Ussher took the Bible and calculated the age of the Earth based on it. Hence the 6000 year old Universe.
The Force> What chapter in the Book of Job are you talking about?
Where does it say sauropod and plesiosaur? What about the Big Bang 13,7 billion years ago, and the formation of the Solar-system some 4,5 billion years ago do you think doesn’t make sense?
And if God created light still does not explain how light, travelling at 300.000 km/s can reach us from objects further away that 6000 lightyears, you know?
And – you’re not supposed to prove that God exist, but go ahead, see if you can. You’re catually supposed to prove to me that a divine being created everything 6000 years ago.
Contradictions? Where should I begin? With the beginning:
Gen. 1:25-17
"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image."
->Humans were created after the other animals.
Gen.2:18-19
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
->Humans were created before the other animals. What is it?
Then go on to Gen 1:27 and Gen 2:18-22, and answer me this: Was man and woman created simultaneously or what?
Iirima> So the Bible is true because YOU say so?
just dropped in cause Fire showed me this thread ... yayyy
ok, The Omega, the Job reference is chapter 40 and 41 (named Behemoth and Levithian if I'm not mistaken)
about the dinosaurs... if you (TheForce) desperatly want to get the bible involved, give me one, just ONE dinosaur that fits the next description:
"His snorting throws out flashes of light;
his eyes are like the rays of dawn.
Firebrands stream from his mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
Smoke pours from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.
His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth. "
Indeed, NONE, it's a mythical beast that's described, NOT a dinosaur.
so, WHERE are the dinosaurs than?
Do also note that the latest translations have changed the names of Levithian and Behemoth into elephant, hippo or crocodile.
Wanna know what Job is describing? a DRAGON, a mythical beast.
There are dragon accounts from China, Europe, the Middle East, and ancient Latin America.
In China the royal house kept dragons for ceremonies, and records of the Greek historian Herodotus and the Jewish historian Josephus describe flying reptiles in ancient Egypt and Arabia. In other cultures, it was a great honor to kill these creatures. There are numerous records of warriors killing great beasts in order to establish credibility in a village. Gilgamesh, Fafnir, Beowulf and other famous legends, including the mythology of Egypt, Greece and Rome, include specific descriptions of dragons and other dinosaur-like creatures.
The oldest drawing of a Dragon is situated in La Baume, Latrone, France. It was made 20 000 years.
Originally posted by The Omega
What “census records and other stuff” are you talking about? Can you give me a link to a site with these things, so I can read them? Or hear scientists discuss them?
“i cant believe ur saying that this doesnt prove jesus exsisted because these records dont prove him divine”
I’m not asking for proof of divinity. I’m asking for proof that the man Jesus described in the Bible ever existed. I can’t believe you can’t believe I won’t just believe in stuff that cannot be proven.TheOnePart2> We’re not talking about whether or not anyone in the year 4004 can prove that I existed in 2004. I’m not a Messiah, a messenger of God or divine.
I just want you to supply me with proof – e.g. links to scientific sites that proves Jesus existed.
The point I'm trying to make is that if Jesus is not recognized by the secular majority of his time, he was just a man who lived and died. It's almost impossible to provide proof of a single insignificant person from 2000 years ago. I can only provide you with evidence of a name, not the exact person described in the Bible. Since only Christians believe that he is divine, the only records that would describe him as in the Bible would be written by Christians. Obviously you wouldn't accept this "proof" (I use the term lightly) because, as you said and I agree, it could be faked.
Omega- We will only have proof of the existence of God through death. If a non-believer wakes up in Hell, then I guess the Christians were right. If not, everything is just as you say. The only concrete proof of God is His creation, if you believe he created it. Other than that, there is no proof that any supreme being exists.
The Omega> So true but it was pretty believable i dont now where they got their evidence sorry ... but i am still pretty sure there is some out there somewhere .... erm something we dont seem to have thought of is how accurate all the translations of the bible there is some doubt as to whether jesus refferred to judas as traitior or friend (just thought it was an interesting thought .... ) I do know the web address to the news article but i cant find the cool picture of it tho - ill find the link and post it here when i find it agen.
Many parts of the Bible are translated incorrectly, I believe. I heard somewhere that there was an entire book that was omitted because it, unlike the other books in the Bible, said that anyone could have a direct relationship with God and that it didn't take a divine being to do so. If I were Christian, I certainly would believe that.
You all seem to have a nice debate going here... *watches everyone at each others' throats* so all I'm going to say is that I believe in evolutionism... science can be proved, religion is completely subjective. Creationism? The world was created in under a week... yeah, that's plausible... Evolutionism? There's hard scientific fact to back that up. This makes me wonder if it's possible for any scientists to be Christian....
Anyway... I personally cannot believe in something that 1. I can't see, hear, feel, or sense in ANY way, and 2. has made my life such a living Hell.
It's so much easier to believe in demons....