Hulk vs. Doomsday

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
What's your point? Doomsday's power increases are all results of plot devices. Doesn't make them any less valid.

Mindless Hulk isn't inconsistant. He had started to get weaker when seperated from Banner. He began to fade from existance. When he first became mindless, he wrestled the pre-retconned Beyonder to the ground.

doomsday's power increases are a result of plot device in a technicality... however you can not argue that he is stronger as a result of his own esteem or power... hulk had help from jean grey in the onslaught conflict..

the difference.. doomsday gets stronger and adapts every time...

hulk doesn't have jean helping him out every time...

as for hulk/supes on strength... I as well as a plethora of others would disagree but we've been down that road again and again and again.....

and mindless was inconsistant... doesn't make him a bad character....

Originally posted by jinzin
doomsday's power increases are a result of plot device in a technicality... however you can not argue that he is stronger as a result of his own esteem or power... hulk had help from jean grey in the onslaught conflict..

the difference.. doomsday gets stronger and adapts every time...

hulk doesn't have jean helping him out every time...

as for hulk/supes on strength... I as well as a plethora of others would disagree but we've been down that road again and again and again.....

and mindless was inconsistant... doesn't make him a bad character....

Jean Grey helped Hulk tap power that he had inside of him all along. There's no difference.

If that's your argument, then Doomsday shouldn't be allowed to be Hunter/Prey Doomsday, or Gog Wars Doomsday in this fight. He should be Doomsday at the power level he was before he was affected by plot devices.

Good logic, eh?

Can't argue facts. Superman's greatest single feat doesn't compare to Hulk's greatest feat. Hulk proved that he was capable of infinite strength by resisting the matter antimatter attraction. Hulk has lesser feats that are greater than anything Superman has done.

Mindless Hulk wasn't inconsistant. He became weaker because he was seperated from Banner. No inconsistency involved. It was a part of the storyline.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Jean Grey helped Hulk tap power that he had inside of him all along. There's no difference.

jean grey IS the damned plot device.. he would not have otherwise attained that power... she helped him do it cause he couldn't do it himself...

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
If that's your argument, then Doomsday shouldn't be allowed to be Hunter/Prey Doomsday, or Gog Wars Doomsday in this fight. He should be Doomsday at the power level he was before he was affected by plot devices.

Good logic, eh?

logic? for someone who's tying to make snide remarks about such you certainly aren't showing a very intimidating amount of it.

THE DIFFERENCE... since you missed it before.. is that doomsday becomes stronger and stronger... he keeps that strength, it doesn't alter or fail... the only time it did so was when he was doomsday rex, which I know has already been explained for you, as I am the one that explained it.... you're calling doomsday's damned POWER a plot device.. when it isn't... so when doomsday gets into his next fight he will still have the power and strength etc that he has now...

Hulk's strength was caused by a plot device, in his next fight jean grey won't be there thus he doesn't have the same guarantee.. hence not a useable feat.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Can't argue facts. Superman's greatest single feat doesn't compare to Hulk's greatest feat. Hulk proved that he was capable of infinite strength by resisting the matter antimatter attraction. Hulk has lesser feats that are greater than anything Superman has done.

exaclty... and hulk being able to push apart a crafted device does not make him INFINATELY strong.. it only means his strength limit wasn't met by that particular obstical... and now we've entered to loop... we've already been down this road cc...

I have seen superman use enough strength to push moons and small planets... I have not seen hulk do the same.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Mindless Hulk wasn't inconsistant. He became weaker because he was seperated from Banner. No inconsistency involved. It was a part of the storyline.

and his durability? certainly seemed inconsistant to me..

I take it back Doomsday would kill the crap out of Hulk.

And I take back what you took back. Hulk would kick the crap out of
Doomsday

Originally posted by jinzin
jean grey IS the damned plot device.. he would not have otherwise attained that power... she helped him do it cause he couldn't do it himself...

logic? for someone who's tying to make snide remarks about such you certainly aren't showing a very intimidating amount of it.

THE DIFFERENCE... since you missed it before.. is that doomsday becomes stronger and stronger... he keeps that strength, it doesn't alter or fail... the only time it did so was when he was doomsday rex, which I know has already been explained for you, as I am the one that explained it.... you're calling doomsday's damned POWER a plot device.. when it isn't... so when doomsday gets into his next fight he will still have the power and strength etc that he has now...

Hulk's strength was caused by a plot device, in his next fight jean grey won't be there thus he doesn't have the same guarantee.. hence not a useable feat.

exaclty... and hulk being able to push apart a crafted device does not make him INFINATELY strong.. it only means his strength limit wasn't met by that particular obstical... and now we've entered to loop... we've already been down this road cc...

I have seen superman use enough strength to push moons and small planets... I have not seen hulk do the same.

and his durability? certainly seemed inconsistant to me..

Actually, yes Hulk could have attained that level of rage without Jean's assistance. However, it would take a massive amount of stress, and time that they didn't have. Doomsday, on the other hand, could not have evolved to his most powerful form without being defeated time after time by progressively more powerful opponents.

I'm not saying that Jean Grey would be here to increase Hulk's anger. My point was that Hulk at that level of power wouldn't be defeated by any form of Doomsday.

Apparently don't understand the nature of the matter-antimatter attraction. It's not like lifting something that's really heavy. This wasn't just some powerful machine forcing two spheres together. On one side, there's a sphere of polarized matter. On the other, a sphere of polerized antimatter. Hulk's in the middle. The force of attraction between matter and antimatter is infinite in magnitude. The laws of physics say that Hulk should have been crushed between the two converging orbs, regardless of how strong he is. Hulk able to resist the force, and shatter the inertial field between them, sending one of the orbs into deep space. The resulting explosion created a star. That feat is one greater than even pre-crisis Superman has performed.

Just because you haven't seen Hulk do it, doesn't mean that he hasn't done it.

On every coccasion on which Superman has moved moons or planets, he's either doing so with the assistance two or more other superheroes, or he's powered himself up by going into the sun (War World.) He's not normally strong enough to push a planet. By himself. Heck, Supes, Wonder Woman, and Kyle struggled like hell to move the Earth, and they weren't able to move it very far at all.

Hulk can't push a planet through space for one simple reason. He can't fly. However, Hulk has knocked the Earth itself out of it's orbit, and he has sent shockwaves across the planet on more than one occasion. Hulk once destroyed an asteroid with twice the mass of the Earth with one punch. His feats of strength are greater, without a doubt.

Mindless Hulk was not inconsistant. Yes, his durability decreased when he was seperated from Banner. He was fading out of existance. Can you point out any particular inconsistencies? 😬

are yall seriouse??? Doomsday would own the hulk considering he has a huge huge huge speed advantage and not to mention the huge durability advantag. Also how is hulk suppose to take him down considering Doomsday has already been beatin to death and he cant be beatin the same way twice?

Originally posted by superman302
are yall seriouse??? Doomsday would own the hulk considering he has a huge huge huge speed advantage and not to mention the huge durability advantag. Also how is hulk suppose to take him down considering Doomsday has already been beatin to death and he cant be beatin the same way twice?

Doomsday doesn't have a huge, huge, speed advantage. He's quick, but he's not nearly as fast as Superman. Certainly not faster than Flash. Hulk's durability is just as good as Doomsday's. He can walk through a nuclear blast without being scratched, and his durability increases as he becomes angrier.

This is how Doomsday's power works: If Doomsday is beaten by someone, he won't be beaten by them again. He evolves past their level of power. It will take someone stronger to beat him. The Hulk can always become stronger.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Doomsday doesn't have a huge, huge, speed advantage. He's quick, but he's not nearly as fast as Superman. Certainly not faster than Flash. Hulk's durability is just as good as Doomsday's. He can walk through a nuclear blast without being scratched, and his durability increases as he becomes angrier.

This is how Doomsday's power works: If Doomsday is beaten by someone, he won't be beaten by them again. He evolves past their level of power. It will take someone stronger to beat him. The Hulk can always become stronger.

Actually back when superman first fought doomsday, doomsday was said to move as quick as the flash( alot faster then the hulk ) and that was way back when he was alot weaker. Also in hunter prey Doomsday took a hit from darkseids omega beams and just got back up not to mention that doomsday in that same series took a blast equal to a 100 megaton nukes going off at the same time and wasnt even dazed by it, and considering the hulk has a hard time just taking one nuke im going to guess that doomsday is more durable. Also even if the fight somehow did last long enough for the hulk to become stronger then doomsday, doomsday will just keep evolving during the fight and keep matching the hulks stregth( as shown in his first fight with superman, and also in hunter prey). Doomsday has to many advantages to lose this one.

Sigh... It's depressing that people make so many judgements about Hulk while knowing so little. Hulk's strength is vastly underrated by the majority of this forum. Hulk has feats that rival or even exceed Pre-crisis Superman's feats.

Here are just a few:

When Hulk fought the Night Crawler in an alternate universe called the Dark Cosmos, he deflected the Night Crawler's energy with a Thunderclap. Once deflected, the force from the attack destroyed the entire universe that they were fighting in. Sure beats sneezing away a solar system, if you ask me.

The Deviants constructed a device to hold the flame of life, that was strong enough to withstand the attacks of Celestials. When Hulk first tried to destroy the device, and he failed. After becoming enraged, Hulk ripped the Deviants device apart. He became physically stronger than a Celestial.

Vector the U-Foe is powerful enough to move a planet with his matter repulsion power. Yet, when he focused every ounce of his power on stopping the Hulk, he was unable to do so.

Hulk resisting the matter-antimatter attraction is a greater feat of strength than any other superhero has ever accomplished.

Honestly people, don't make statements ignorantly. And please, respect the Hulk.

Originally posted by superman302
Actually back when superman first fought doomsday, doomsday was said to move as quick as the flash( alot faster then the hulk ) and that was way back when he was alot weaker. Also in hunter prey Doomsday took a hit from darkseids omega beams and just got back up not to mention that doomsday in that same series took a blast equal to a 100 megaton nukes going off at the same time and wasnt even dazed by it, and considering the hulk has a hard time just taking one nuke im going to guess that doomsday is more durable. Also even if the fight somehow did last long enough for the hulk to become stronger then doomsday, doomsday will just keep evolving during the fight and keep matching the hulks stregth( as shown in his first fight with superman, and also in hunter prey). Doomsday has to many advantages to lose this one.

Doomsday doesn't move faster than the Flash. He never has, and probably never will. That's ridiculous.

Hulk has never had a hard time taking a nuke. He has withstood attacks that can destroy planets while unfazed. He has been shot with a gun that takes down Celestials. Durability is not a problem here.

Hulk's strength grows exponentially when he gets angrier. That means that if his strength was at 1,000,000 tons before he got angry, after one increase, his strength would be at least 1,000,000,000,000 tons. Next time, 10x10^24 tons. The next, 10X10^46. Ad infinitum. Doomsday wouldn't be able to compensate for exponential gains in Hulk's strength with gradual evolution. Sooner or later, he's going down.

It depends on which incarnation of Hulk you're talking about, too. If it's Mindless Hulk, or Onslaught Savage Hulk, he won't lose.

"Actually back when superman first fought doomsday, doomsday was said to move as quick as the flash( alot faster then the hulk ) and that was way back when he was alot weaker"

Some brains probably shut down while reading that story after those words.

The story itself says Boster was wrong.

Unless Flash for you cant get fast enough, to not be perceived by the human eye and getting his actions taped on camera.

Doomsday and Superman wer -not- using top speeds. A claim/statement that is proven wrong in the same comic doesnt hold much water.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Actually, yes Hulk could have attained that level of rage without Jean's assistance. However, it would take a massive amount of stress, and time that they didn't have. Doomsday, on the other hand, could not have evolved to his most powerful form without being defeated time after time by progressively more powerful opponents.

I'm not saying that Jean Grey would be here to increase Hulk's anger. My point was that Hulk at that level of power wouldn't be defeated by any form of Doomsday.

but it would take a major plot device or amount of time for hulk to even reach that state of rage... he doesn't normally do that.. thus it was induced by plot device.. if he can't normally reach that state of rage why do you assume that he should be considered to be given the benefit of the doubt that he will? 🤨 I suppose every thread should automatically default to a characters strongest incarnation plot device or no huh?

every thread involving thing should be about spiky thing, every thread involving batman should be when he was augmented by magic, every thread involving spiderman should use cosmic spidey as the default...

that doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Apparently don't understand the nature of the matter-antimatter attraction. It's not like lifting something that's really heavy. This wasn't just some powerful machine forcing two spheres together. On one side, there's a sphere of polarized matter. On the other, a sphere of polerized antimatter. Hulk's in the middle. The force of attraction between matter and antimatter is infinite in magnitude. The laws of physics say that Hulk should have been crushed between the two converging orbs, regardless of how strong he is. Hulk able to resist the force, and shatter the inertial field between them, sending one of the orbs into deep space. The resulting explosion created a star. That feat is one greater than even pre-crisis Superman has performed. .

I understand it just fine.. and if the magnitude needed to push those apart was infinate, than they simply would have stalemated the hulk indefinitely... converging together as they were, would have resulted in a universal black hole yet that didn't happen and yet hulk resisted it.. I gather from that, that the device isn't all you crack it up to be... simple as.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Just because you haven't seen Hulk do it, doesn't mean that he hasn't done it.

I have seen hulk do it.. I didn't say he didn't do it... where did you get that from? 🤨

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
On every coccasion on which Superman has moved moons or planets, he's either doing so with the assistance two or more other superheroes, or he's powered himself up by going into the sun (War World.) He's not normally strong enough to push a planet. .

like how hulk doesn't normally reach the amount of stress he needs to fight onslaught?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Hulk can't push a planet through space for one simple reason. He can't fly. However, Hulk has knocked the Earth itself out of it's orbit, and he has sent shockwaves across the planet on more than one occasion. Hulk once destroyed an asteroid with twice the mass of the Earth with one punch. His feats of strength are greater, without a doubt.

he punhed a dead rock, who hasn't... hell gladiator's done that... superman's done more of the same.. punching power doesn't equate to lifting strength.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Mindless Hulk was not inconsistant. Yes, his durability decreased when he was seperated from Banner. He was fading out of existance. Can you point out any particular inconsistencies? 😬

I recall him getting staggered by heavy debris... suffice it to say doomdsay's punch would be much more effective than debris...

Originally posted by olympian
"Actually back when superman first fought doomsday, doomsday was said to move as quick as the flash( alot faster then the hulk ) and that was way back when he was alot weaker"

Some brains probably shut down while reading that story after those words.

The story itself says Boster was wrong.

Unless Flash for you cant get fast enough, to not be perceived by the human eye and getting his actions taped on camera.

Doomsday and Superman wer -not- using top speeds. A claim/statement that is proven wrong in the same comic doesnt hold much water.

when did the story itself say booster to be wrong?

meh..doesn't matter... doomsday owned flash twice in doomsday wars... once WHILE he was buisy kicking the crap out of wonder woman.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Doomsday doesn't move faster than the Flash. He never has, and probably never will. That's ridiculous.

Hulk has never had a hard time taking a nuke. He has withstood attacks that can destroy planets while unfazed. He has been shot with a gun that takes down Celestials. Durability is not a problem here.

Hulk's strength grows exponentially when he gets angrier. That means that if his strength was at 1,000,000 tons before he got angry, after one increase, his strength would be at least 1,000,000,000,000 tons. Next time, 10x10^24 tons. The next, 10X10^46. Ad infinitum. Doomsday wouldn't be able to compensate for exponential gains in Hulk's strength with gradual evolution. Sooner or later, he's going down.

It depends on which incarnation of Hulk you're talking about, too. If it's Mindless Hulk, or Onslaught Savage Hulk, he won't lose.

he ran away from a damned nuke.. how is that not a problem for durability?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Hulk has feats that rival or even exceed Pre-crisis Superman's feats.

Rival maybe.

Exceed - possibly not.

Superman here prevents the Earth from being pulled through a blackhole by blocking it with his own body.

Then he closes it, defeating the infinite well of gravity using his pure muscle power and strength.

lol..precrisis supes is re-goddamned-diculous....

Originally posted by jinzin
he ran away from a damned nuke.. how is that not a problem for durability?

I think you're referring to the Maestro. Savage Hulk gets hit by countless megaton nukes on several occasions.

"when did the story itself say booster to be wrong"

Everytime Lois Lane made the report on how the fight was going, everytime a camera was catching all the action and everytime pll on the streeth could see where they wer heading.

"meh..doesn't matter... doomsday owned flash twice in doomsday wars... once WHILE he was buisy kicking the crap out of wonder woman"

Thats another different Doomsday. Im talking DOS where that statement shows up.

Regardless - I believe that this fight depends on your definition of Doomsday's evolution.

He's been killed by physical force before - does that mean he's now immune to physical force?

Or does it mean he's only immune to the LEVEL of force used before?

If it's the first, then Doomsday wins.

If it's the second, Hulk wins.

🙂