Now that I think of it, Hulk wasn't Savage Hulk when Jean Grey used her power on him. He was the Professor. Savage Hulk may have been capable of becoming stronger than Onslaught by himself. In fact, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't.
I change my position. Savage Hulk doesn't need prep time or a plot device to become stronger than any form of Doomsday. He's consistently shown that he doesn't have a problem becoming stronger than his opponents, regardless of how strong they are..
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Actually, now that I think of it, other than the Onslaught fight, I can't think of any villain Hulk has fought that he couldn't become stronger than. Heck, Hulk was even able to become stronger than Galaxy Master, (who's sorta like Imperiex,) without any sort of help. The Onslaught fight is just one inconsistency, and to be quite honest, the entire Onslaught saga was a continuity mess. Why would any version of Doomsday be too strong for Savage Hulk to get stronger than? He's never had that problem in the past.
he's had plenty of problems in the past.. doomsday's not just about strength, he's got speed too.. and now intelligence... too much for hulk to overcome...
Originally posted by jinzin
he's had plenty of problems in the past.. doomsday's not just about strength, he's got speed too.. and now intelligence... too much for hulk to overcome...
Like when? Name a villian that Hulk couldn't become stronger than, on his own.
Doomsday's speed advantage is slight, at best. He's not the Flash, and he won't be outmaneuvering Hulk. Intelligence wouldn't be a big factor in this fight, unless Doomsday somehow found out Hulk's weaknesses, which I doubt that he would.
Please don't bring up the Hulk/Thor armlock. It's not a good example.
First off, when heroes fight each other, (especially popular ones, e.g. Spiderman, or Wolverine,) the PIS factor greatly increases. I mean, Hulk can land a hit on Quicksilver, but not Spidey. Why doesn't Hulk just crumple Wolverine up like a ball of aluminum foil, considering that he's proven that he can bend and even break adamantium? Why doesn't Thor just blast Hulk into the oblivion with Mjolnir, rather than slug it out? One answer. Plot induced stupidity.
Look into Hulk's rouges gallery. You'll see some pretty impressive faces. Savage Hulk has consistantly shown that he can become stronger than his opponent. In fact, I challenge you to find a villian that Hulk has faced that he could not at least stalemate in terms of strength.
this is odd.. I realize how much you love hulk CC but damn man, the guy has been put down and held off by FARRRRRRR less than doomsday...
Iron fist knocked him out.
Wolverine nearly killed him.
now spidey has KOed him.
Iron man put him out for the count.
Tyrannus put his lights out with a 3 hitter quiter.
thing has held him off
namor has held his own against hulk, Koed him AND succeeded on one occasion to remain consious in a situation where hulk could not due to punishment.
where as doomsday hasn't been beaten by anyone less than superman, or greater...
hulk isn't even guaranteed a good base strength.. while doomsday always retains his from the get-go... all this fight is about is giving hulk the benefit of the doubt but not doomsday regardless of what doomsday has proven himself capable of doing (evolution wise) and regardless of anything that makes hulk look bad by comparison.
doomsday's fast enough to make superman recognize that he's actually at a disadvantage speed wise.. that kind of speed is going to be a MAJOR problem for hulk... the same way it was for wonder woman.. the same way it was for gogs... the same way it was for flash... hulk has delt with fast guys sure.. none of them even begin to compare with doomsday though...
hulk has a consitently hard time laying his mits on captain america, lulke cage, and iron fist.. yet he's going to handle dd's speed just fine? NU..... UH.....
superman can supposedly take a laser that cuts through admantium and doomsday cut him with ease, penetrated him with even greater ease..
hulk has fits with adamntium blades, that hurt him up something fierce.. doomsday's bone protrusions are going to be a MAJOR problem...
Read my last post. It addresses much of what you posted.
Hulk was mind-controlled when he got 'KOed' by Namor. He was never actually shown being KOed. He just washed up on shore as Banner.
Hulk's base strength as Savage Hulk isn't quantified, or stationary. All we know is that he can lift more than 100 tons.
Doomsday has shown that he's too fast for Superman? For the Flash? When?
If we're considering crossovers to be canon, Superman commented on how fast the Hulk is as well.
Hulk has fits with adamantium blades? Pfft... Wolverine wasn't even able to put a scratch on Savage Hulk. What are you referring to?
Originally posted by Cosmic Cubeseems pretty clear cut to me... "cause and effect"
Read my last post. It addresses much of what you posted.Hulk was mind-controlled when he got 'KOed' by Namor. He was never actually shown being KOed. He just washed up on shore as Banner.
Hulk's base strength as Savage Hulk isn't quantified, or stationary. All we know is that he can lift more than 100 tons.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cubehunter prey/doomsday wars
Doomsday has shown that he's too fast for Superman? For the Flash? When?
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
If we're considering crossovers to be canon, Superman commented on how fast the Hulk is as well.
pffft.. if we're using crossovers as canon....
Thats should have never happened. Hulk is faster and stronger than Wolverine. It can't be helped that the runt is extremely popular. Truthfully, they should never fight, cuz its like a middle schooler beating a toddler. Two different classes.
Hulk and DD would be an interesting fight. But its a slugfest that will last for a long time. With no end in sight. Hulk and DD's healing factors are second to none.
"Savage Hulk is not really influenced by Bruce Banner. Mindless Hulk isn't influenced by Banner at all."
We have statements that show that Banner does acts like a control measure to the Hulk in most ocasions. Like when Grey mentioned that his savage persona could get angry for weeks and stll wouldnt be able to reach Satannish.
Mindless form its the one that from also another statement, showed that since Banner`s influence isent there, he can exerce his anger without "moderation".
I havent seen both cases been changed by writers so far.
"Please don't bring up the Hulk/Thor armlock. It's not a good example."
CC, its a valid example. Hulk doesnt get over the top all the time. Thor managed at that time to pull it off, we dont know if he could for more or not.
Its a great/high feat for the Thunder God instead of being a low from Hulk.
But thats my pov. I do agree that popular heroes tend to be shown more capable than they are, but in classic Thor`s case he always had the strenght to challenge Hulk and stand his ground.
Originally posted by jinzin
seems pretty clear cut to me... "cause and effect"Hulk's base strength as Savage Hulk isn't quantified, or stationary. All we know is that he can lift more than 100 tons.
hunter prey/doomsday wars
pffft.. if we're using crossovers as canon....
So, did Superman say, "Man, this Doomsday guy is fast," Or did he say "Oh my God! He's too fast for me! I can't keep up!"
Uh, anyone notice that's Pre-crisis Superman? He would turn Doomsday or Hulk into a snicker bar and eat them with his totally illogical power set. Hulk knocked him out of Metropolis. That's an UBER feat on Hulk's part.
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
So, did Superman say, "Man, this Doomsday guy is fast," Or did he say "Oh my God! He's too fast for me! I can't keep up!"Uh, anyone notice that's Pre-crisis Superman? He would turn Doomsday or Hulk into a snicker bar and eat them with his totally illogical power set. Hulk knocked him out of Metropolis. That's an UBER feat on Hulk's part.
Green Lantern said
"I'll handle this chump mysel---"
-Insert GL getting his head smashed on a rock-
"He's faster than the Flash!"
-Insert GL getting KOed for the rest of the story.-
Superman through out about all of his fights always talks about how DD is so fast that he can barely keep up with him, and DD would have no problem cuting the hulk, and lets not forget that DD was hit by a blast equal to a million nukes with out even being fazed in hunter prey there is no reason why DD cant win this one considering he has the advantage in both durability and speed
Originally posted by superman302
Superman through out about all of his fights always talks about how DD is so fast that he can barely keep up with him, and DD would have no problem cuting the hulk, and lets not forget that DD was hit by a blast equal to a million nukes with out even being fazed in hunter prey there is no reason why DD cant win this one considering he has the advantage in both durability and speed
Hulk has been hit by blasts that can destroy planets on several occasion. They didn't faze him, either.
I know Superman almost never uses superspeed in his fights, but can you give me a quote, or a scan from Superman where he says this?
At Superman's top speeds, he's nigh invisible. He obviously wan't fighting at top speed in DOS. The whole fight was watched and recorded.