I've seen this stated eralier in the thread...mathematics is among the few certainties in our lives, simply because WE invented it...it's totally abstract because it's not based on the world around us, it doesn't need it to prove that it's true..
There are many certainties in this world, but no matter how certain u are, most things are only 99% certain at most... that's because there will ALWAYS be the statistical probability that the 'other' thing could happen...
As for stuff like "I'm ceratain I'm 17", that is again something totally abstract, invented and used only by humans, and thus cannot be wrong..
Uncertainty exists in the universe around us, EVERYWHERE.
The only things that are 100% certain in this world are abstract things or things that we envision in our minds (and even those sometimes tend to be decieving).
How can they be errors of my perception, when they are not based on perception... can u deny that 1+1 = 2 ? Is it ever uncertain to you that 1+1 = 2 ? there is no 0.00001% chance that it is wrong, because it's like me saying "I'm thinking of a green cow"... can u deny that ?
I'm saying the only things that can be uncertain are things that have not been thought up by humans....
Originally posted by rusky
How can they be errors of my perception, when they are not based on perception... can u deny that 1+1 = 2 ? Is it ever uncertain to you that 1+1 = 2 ? there is no 0.00001% chance that it is wrong, because it's like me saying "I'm thinking of a green cow"... can u deny that ?I'm saying the only things that can be uncertain are things that have not been thought up by humans....
I can doubt 1+1= 2, yes.
People can be hypnotised to think 1+1 is 3. Your statement of it is not by any means certain- your perception of what you think is right might be skewed.
Yes, I can deny you are thinking of a green cow. Because that presumes:
1. You exist to think it. I cannot prove that.
2. What I think is green is what you think is green
3. What I call a cow is what you call a cow
4. You are telling the truth
5. I am hearing you correctly
The list goes on and on...
Sceptical theory is evry pedantic. You will not beat it with mundane facts.
This is in fact one oif the very first points Decartes addressed. He first theorised that, as we sometimes do not know we are dreaming qwhen we are, how do we know we are not dremaing now? Descartes concluded that even if we were dreaming, scientific truths still applied:
"For whether I am awake or asleep, two and three added together are five, and a square has no more than four sides."
But then he went on to say, what if all he percerived was in fact simply the construct of an evil demon who had control of his senses?
"How do I know that he has not brought it about that there is no earth, no sky, no extended thing, no shape, no size, no place, while at the same time ensuring that all these things appear to me to exist just as they do now? What is more, just as I consider that others sometimes go astray in cases where they think they have the most perfect knowledge, how do I know that he has not brought it about that I too go wrong every time I add two and three or count the sides of a square, or in some even simpler matter, if that is imaginable?"
That's the point. You can always imagine a situation where these things CAN be doubted.
EXCEPT for your own existence.
That is scepticism. As simple, and boring, as that.
Re: As anything really certain?
Originally posted by Fire
As some of you know I believe that nothing in life can ever be certain. It is not that because something has always been like that in the past it will remain like that in the future. This does lead for some weird things, as Modern day science it's laws are all build on things that have always been the same and will always be the same. This way of thinking doesn't mix well with the general way of thinking in the 20th and 21th century.This however also poses problems for things like Loving Someone forever. However I do consider that special since it's an emotion and ergo is impossible to prodict (DONT WORRIE STORM IF THERE IS ONE THING IN MY LIFE I'M CERTAIN OF IT'S THAT WE IS MENT TO BE 😊)
So does anyone agree with me that nothing can ever be certain and that ergo modern day science is wrong.
3 certainties in life:
1) Death
2) Taxes
3) Chinese Food Left-Overs
I havent read the whole thread, so you're probably way further in the topic then my reply is.
But I go for uncertain, because for instance love, you love someone 's they love you back you both say it's for ever, you get married and then ten years later you bump in to someone much more interesting and you get devorced, now if everything was certain, why would there be the option on devorce? And I guess the reason everything is uncertain is because of change and choice, if there werent any changes in the world nor any choices then I'de have gone for everything is certain it can only go one way, but because of choice and change I think absolute certainty is non existent.
greetings rg
ps, if everything was certain then there wouldnt be any questions, because everyone would have all the answers.
Re: As anything really certain?
Originally posted by Fire
As some of you know I believe that nothing in life can ever be certain. It is not that because something has always been like that in the past it will remain like that in the future. This does lead for some weird things, as Modern day science it's laws are all build on things that have always been the same and will always be the same. This way of thinking doesn't mix well with the general way of thinking in the 20th and 21th century.This however also poses problems for things like Loving Someone forever. However I do consider that special since it's an emotion and ergo is impossible to prodict (DONT WORRIE STORM IF THERE IS ONE THING IN MY LIFE I'M CERTAIN OF IT'S THAT WE IS MENT TO BE 😊)
So does anyone agree with me that nothing can ever be certain and that ergo modern day science is wrong.
😆 Good question 🙂 . I would say modern science, for a crude description, has it's head stuck up its arse and as such it's view is limited. (heh heh heh) Not pinning that on all modern science, I guess more so a politicians view of science. To a degree and as much as they fight for it politicians are our filter to modern science. So it's their view of it that is majority main stream. There's some really cool stuff out there, it's just plodding along due to a lack in any major funding. One that just popped into my mind was at the turn of the millennium a whole bunch of scientists from all over the world were recording the emotional energy output from humans as it turned midnight. New Zealand is first main one and what they recorded was when New Zealand hit twelve and they all went off 🙂 everyone around the world felt it emotionally. Well, enough to register on the equipment and method the scientists were using. Not sure exactly the science of it but basically it had to do with energetic channels through the earth.The dudes in Japan who have been trying to capture a neutrino from the sun joined in. They've been trying for ages to capture a neutrino at the point in where it hits the earth and then capture another as it's passing out of the earth. There theory, which is pretty cool, is that the universe exists on energetic lines and channels just like the earth does. The stuff they go on about in that movie "the day after tomorrow", cool movie by the way. And the current or flow of those channels is what the procession of the equinoxes is all about. Basically when the sun shoots out massive solar flares we get a massive amount of neutrinos that pass through Earth. The scientists in Japan are trying to show that these neutrinos are altered as the pass through Earth and carry on that change along magnetic or energy channels throughout the universe. I know by now I'm way off track of the actual question asked 🙂 and I'm going to go even more off track cause I love when weird things in history tie in with modern science.
The Great Pyramid at Giza and the (three?) others along side it were meant to represent Orion, in Egyptian writing. But one was always believed to be a bit off. The last little pyramid was out by modern calculations and this was just put down to the idea that back then the tools weren't available. yeah, fair enough. It wasn't till sometime in the seventies I think, that some woman had discovered that the planet that the Pyramid represented wasn't where modern science thought it was. They hadn't looked at the pyramids at giza as representing not only the planets but representing them in proper three dimensional space. They were looking at not only giza in a two dimensional way but their own charts aswell, to the degree that they were off. Like...oops 🙂 .Anyway modern science's star charts were corrected by some woman with a mad theory and the pyramids at Giza. The great Pyramid is also mathematically a story of the procession of the equinoxes. Which are a result of our revolution around the Pleiades. The mamma and pappa galaxy ours revolves around. It's cool the whole structure is a story. It squares the circle mathematically (heh heh) almost being cheeky to say look we knew what we were doing. And then from the base side 365.2 cubits long representing Earths lunar year. From the all the chambers and levels record the length of the procession of the equinoxes to 25,827.5 years which is the time it takes to revolve around the Pleiades. They were using a science, just not our modern day version. The thing is The Great Pyramid point directly at Orion and as a Pyramid sitting right on top of a connection point of some major energy lines of the Earth it focuses those channels to a point and sends neutrinos that get caught up in the Earths magnetic/energy channels straight to Orion. So did the Egyptian's know all about this and in their philosophy of the pyramid sending the pharaoh back to the Gods did they think that was Orion? either way it's pretty cool.
Haha sorry, I've been going through some old science mags lately. Ok...nothing in life can ever be certain. I would say four...off the top of my head 🙂 Love, Pain, Birth and Death. Birth and Death, nuff said in this context. Love and Pain, I would say like Birth and Death one can not exist without the other. Love in my opinion is life, without it we would not move, and eventually die, Haha. When we love someone we are also reminded of pain in the form of loss. That can fuel and strengthen love and is apart of it. Helps it grow, inspires you to make the most of it and so it grows. With pain, basic absence of love. It's the other half. I guess when the necessity for pain within love to remind us of how precious it is therefore better illuminating it becomes confused and is expressed through things like doubt. It's like the feeling of loss within love but just mistakenly attached to some other emotion to relate it to yourself. Within everything the paradox. Gotta love it 🙂 keeps you on your toes yeah? (heh heh heh) Oh yeah and modern day science would want to get excited by the fact that it gets it wrong. When they get it right science becomes history and then they're all out of a job...in line at the social security office and talking to some guy whose life's work is getting the word out to people that cats are taking over the world. 🙂 Science is the study of reality yeah...reality is constantly evolving and changing, modern science should be down with that. No actually modern science needs to have scientists deciding what funding goes where. Scientists, the good ones, are cool motivated people. Passionate about something to truly devote your life to it, that rocks. Love is the sign that the path is right. Pain is your guide to backtrack and take the left turn this time instead of the right turn.
That's just stating your views on those concepts- nothing about whether they are certain or not. Which they are not, if you apply sceptical philosophy.
All that stuff about science is somewhat irrelevant as well. Fire did not want an attack on modern science, simply a comment on the principle of certainty.