Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Because it is hyperbole, since when can something [B]SEEM faster than light in the first place?
The majority of the speeds that proceed lightspeed can't even be registered by the human eye, so, how can you see someone move faster than light? It's hyperbole, plain and simple. [/B]
Because the characters are superhuman and can see things that fast.
Do you have any proof it's hyperbole?
Originally posted by Haruhi
[B]So, is Doomsday actually faster than the Flash because Green Lantern said so? The same Flash that outruns bullets, explosions, sound , LIGHT and breaks just about every other conceivable speed barrier? No.
At the time that statement was made, Flash was much slower than he later became, he hadn't fully mastered the Speedforce yet. Also it was speaking of Doomsday's reflex speed, not his running/movement speed.
Same principle as Hishigi being FTL. You need feats, i.e. a demonstration of that so-called speed, to be considered FTL. Right now, all you have is "But a lot of characters said he is." It's not like I'm asking for much. I just want an instance, out of all those statements made by SDK characters, where somebody actually showcases that level of speed. Outrunning an actual beam of light, moving long distances in a moment, stuff like that. Are you telling me you can't get that?
So you would accept someone saying that "He moved X distance in Y time" where X/Y is greater than lightspeed, but you don't accept someone simply saying that "He's faster than lightspeed?"
That makes no sense, because the former statement has nothing more to back it up than the latter one.
And I know I seem like I'm hating on SDK, but truthfuly, I'm not. I actually really want to read the manga now, but the thing is, if people were to concede that Hishigi actually was FTL based off of a simple statement (hyperbole, like Emperor mentioned), what's to stop something even more outrageous w/no backing to be true?
Slippery slope fallacy.
And the manga is only available online up to chapter 105 (out of 313 chapters).
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Because the characters are superhuman and can see things that fast.Do you have any proof it's hyperbole?
The burden of proof is on you. You're the one claiming he's light speed. I don't understand why you can't just give me a feat of him doing something light-speed. I mean, if this guy is as uber as you claim him to be, surely he must have a belt full of feats that demonstrate his speed. I don't buy statements because they don't tell me diddly squat.
So, out with it.
t the time that statement was made, Flash was much slower than he later became, he hadn't fully mastered the Speedforce yet. Also it was speaking of Doomsday's reflex speed, not his running/movement speed.
And... he's basing this conclusion from what? hyperbole, yet again.
So you would accept someone saying that "He moved X distance in Y time" where X/Y is greater than lightspeed, but you don't accept someone simply saying that "He's faster than lightspeed?"That makes no sense, because the former statement has nothing more to back it up than the latter one.
I would accept it (dunno about Emperor) because it describes something he's DONE. It holds more water than something he supposedly "is." There's a very vast difference between the two.
So, please. Give me a feat that anybody in SDK is FTL. It's not like I'm asking for an arm and a leg. All you need to do is give me a panel of him moving at uber, light-like speeds.I already know they're past bullet-speed because I've actually SEEN them blitzing bullets.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
According to Wiki even during his fastest attacks it is still possible for other characters to follow his actions which implies that he is not infact moving FTL
Exactly. It's one thing if they somehow show him doing it by like outrunning a beam of light or moving vast distances in a short period of time, but all we have so far is somebody swinging his sword, then some guy on the sidelines yelling "ZOMG! He FTL!"
It's ridiculous to claim anything just from something like that.
Originally posted by HaruhiSo, please. Give me a feat that anybody in SDK is FTL. It's not like I'm asking for an arm and a leg. All you need to do is give me a panel of him moving at uber, light-like speeds.I already know they're past bullet-speed because I've actually SEEN them blitzing bullets.
being able to react to light speed is because they are just superhuman. I'm not a comic fan so i don't really know too much about flash/doomsday or care too much, or know how it relates to this at all.
giving more spoilers
hishigi's sword projectiles are light speed during warmup, and kyo can intercept those and dodge those even when he was surprised by it so, that shows he's around light speed with his whole body movement. and he beats fubuki after he gains hishigi's heart and combines his light speed sword with his water dragons.
he still has a few more powerups towards the end of the manga to face kyoshirou and the former crimson king, so i would think it's safe to say kyo, kyoshirou, the crimson king is beyond light speed.
kyo broke out of a black hole at around v.17 if you theorized that he used speed to do that, though i'm not exactly a scientist in how black holes work. fubuki back at v.20 move in and out of a large area really quickly to kill someone without any of the superhuman seeing him and just feeling his presence. not that you can say that's light speed but it's impressive.
Originally posted by Haruhi
The burden of proof is on you. You're the one claiming he's light speed. I don't understand why you can't just give me a feat of him doing something light-speed. I mean, if this guy is as uber as you claim him to be, surely he must have a belt full of feats that demonstrate his speed. I don't buy statements because they don't tell me diddly squat.So, out with it.
It was directly stated. Multiple times. By many different characters who had no reason to lie.
The burden of proof is on you to show that this is wrong.
And... he's basing this conclusion from what? hyperbole, yet again.
So you just arbitrarily declare it's hyperbole because you think so?
I would accept it (dunno about Emperor) because it describes something he's DONE. It holds more water than something he supposedly "is." There's a very vast difference between the two.So, please. Give me a feat that anybody in SDK is FTL. It's not like I'm asking for an arm and a leg. All you need to do is give me a panel of him moving at uber, light-like speeds.I already know they're past bullet-speed because I've actually SEEN them blitzing bullets.
Kyo vs. Yuan fight was stated to be past lightspeed. That's something they've actually done.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
According to Wiki even during his fastest attacks it is still possible for other characters to follow his actions which implies that he is not infact moving FTL
No, because the other characters are SUPERHUMAN. If one character can move and fight at FTL speeds, what prevents another character on a similar level from tracking them while they do so?
😄
I am fully aware of that
I was just messing with you
Superluminal abilities are very difficult to prove and I haven't seen or read SDK so I can't really say whether you're right or not (I'd bet you're right having seen far too many anime with FTL characters)
on a personal note I have decided to exacterbate this problem by adding speedster to my list along w/ gunslinger
God: Lord of Nightmares
RealityWarper(non-god): Yuki Nagato
Genius: Washu
Magical Gril: Sailor Galaxia
Sorcerer: Lina Inverse
Mech: Ideon
Human Warrior: Guts
Superpowered Warrior: Z
Speedster:
Gunslinger: Vash the Stampede
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It was directly stated. Multiple times. By many different characters who had no reason to lie.
Again, how does this prove anything? Where does it actually show him doing something that's akin to FTL? Somebody saying "His sword cuts through darkness/he is FTL" does not count, because, again, it doesn't show me anything.
The burden of proof is on you to show that this is wrong.
So, you have nothing, in other words. That about sum it up? Because, again, statements mean nothing. If somebody were to yell out "ZOMG Hishigi is omnipotent!" would you buy it? Well, you might, but I won't, because he needs to PROVE this characteristic.
So you just arbitrarily declare it's hyperbole because you think so?
No, it's declared if there's no actual feat or demonstration of this so-called characteristic.
Kyo vs. Yuan fight was stated to be past lightspeed. That's something they've actually done.
And, again. The proof? It's not like I'm asking for much. All you need to do is give me a panel of him SHOWCASING something. If somebody said "Kyo was able to move -x- speed at -x- second" it'd be more believable than somebody just saying "He fought him at FTL"
So, yeah. Hyperbole. If you don't like it, tough.
No, because the other characters are SUPERHUMAN. If one character can move and fight at FTL speeds, what prevents another character on a similar level from tracking them while they do so?
I don't give a damn if the god of SDK said this was FTL. Unless we see a feat showcasing it, the statement holds about as much water as Hishigi being omnipotent (not the best analogy), none at all. So give me a feat where somebody who's supposedly FTL does something akin to FTL.. otherwise, it's just hyperbole. Statements w/out backing of actual narrative events is nothing. Kyo may very well be FTL, but if all that's based on one statement, then what's to say about every statement made by every other super being of a so-called ability that hasn't been proven? None. So give me a feat.
hishigi's sword projectiles are light speed during warmup, and kyo can intercept those and dodge those even when he was surprised by it so, that shows he's around light speed with his whole body movement. and he beats fubuki after he gains hishigi's heart and combines his light speed sword with his water dragons.he still has a few more powerups towards the end of the manga to face kyoshirou and the former crimson king, so i would think it's safe to say kyo, kyoshirou, the crimson king is beyond light speed.
Kyo vs. Yuan fight was stated to be past lightspeed. That's something they've actually done.
*sigh* Yare, yare.... More of the same. How is this a demonstration of FTL-like speeds? I see a bunch of "FTLs" in there, but no actual feat.
It's not like I'm asking for much here, Mike/Lightness. I just need you to show me an example of somebody SDK doing FTL-like things w/speed. Examples are stated above^
I'll give you SDK is fast. Easily past bullet-speed, since that was demonstrated, but even all the "power ups" in the world won't sell me on how he crosses into light territory.
If you have nothing... you have nothing. Stop trying to pass off a characteristic based off of statements alone. If I bought into that, I'd have to buy into everything else stated. And that's just crap.
I'll believe that the statement of Hishigi being FTL will remain just a hyperbole unless you give me actual proof of him doing something that demonstrates that type of speed. I won't go by fanwanked logic. Honestly, all you have to do is give me a feat. It's not like I'm asking for much.
Also, how are SDK people going to be dodging hundreds/thousands of ki shots in a moment, all from a distance?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well even in the very early chapters Kyo was dodging thousands of attacks at point - blank range.
But were they ki shots? Stuff that, just by hitting the grounding, produces massive explosions?
Kyo may be fast, but simply put, he is not taking out a high powered Z-senshi, who can nuke with AOE blasts.
As it stands, DBZ is a few tiers higher than SDK.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Unless he blitzes them before they can react to his speed.
Process is simple. Fight starts. DBZ-senshi flies up w/equal, if not vastly faster than SDK can react to, then nukes the arena with thousands of ki shots. SDK loses.
Also he has Genbu, which his master said could "Return the universe to nothingness."
*sigh* Do we have to go through this crap again? Give me a feat in which Kyo actually returned the universe to nothingness, or it's just another statement. Are you going to tell me that Kyo is now a universe-buster? Ugh, stop fanwanking him, please.
And what the hell is a Genbu? You're under the assumption that I know what a Genbu is, that you pull out one-liners like that.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's a type of technique....
A type of technique that does...? What, is it a move where he just yells "GENBU!" and the universe returns to nothingness. Gawd, stop your wanking.
And SDK characters are FTL, much faster than DBZ characters have ever been. You just deny it because you don't like it, even though you have nothing to disprove the canon evidence.
Again, if the characters are FTL why not show something they do, and not just talk about? I mean, cripes, if their FTL-level is so consistent in the canon, surely they must show that type of speed over and over again! Why is that so hard for you? Is hanging onto some words all Kyo has? If so, then Kyo's statement of being FTL is just hyperbole, which is, to put it bluntly, crap.
So, yeah. DBZ blitzes, then nukes SDK. End of story. Please stop whining.