well first of all seeing as cap didnt take the soldier serum for nothing, and batman is still "human" as everyone so greatly claims, then bats would be mighty weak against caps punches(especially seeing as caps endurance is beyond batmans)and not to mention shield bashing which he's used against people far stronger than batman and knocked them out
first of all, the shield thing as we all know gives him a huge advantage, which is fair enough, but i honestly believe batman would find a way to overcome it, cos if he didnt he wouldnt stand a chance. with the shield cap wins, cos one smack from the shield would hurt anyone. without it, thats another matter entirely.
sure cap can punch hard, but batman is no slouch himself, and batman is one of the best at finding and exploiting enemies weaknesses. cap is above human peak olympic standard, but not so far as to make him invulnerable to batmans attacks. batman can hit pretty hard, enough to hurt cap, and hes a superior martial artist to cap. if were talkin man to man with no weapons, then bats takes it in a very close fight imo.
actuallu, batman has another advantage, his darker nature and exclusion from the world has let him transend the boundries of normal human strength and endurance, he has been known to literrally bash through brick walls and beat people to nearly to death when he is angry. and again i say that he has mastered EVERY form of martial arts on the DC earth. and he has had a rough deal in the past and has been through a lot of punishment, plus he has superior acrobatic skills and NEAR peak level human strength for a man his size.
also even if he was bumped hard with cap's shield, he wouldnt just faint, hed be injured i admit but this kinda stuff has happened to him a lot, plus, if cap gets his shield then bat should be allowed his gizmos, which would pretty much make him unstoppable against cap.
and another thing, even if u do bench press or lift over 700 pounds, u can still retain ur agility if u train ur whole body right.
*Will no one hear my cries?!!*
Bats loses because in some departments, they are equal - Fighting ability, agility (I'll give you this one), will to win.
In some, Bats is better - Detective skills, bank account size. None of these matter.
In some, Cap is BETTER - Strength, stamina, endurance to pain and injury. These are the factors that will put Cap over the top. If all of the Bat Fans would stop reading the 726 different Bat Man titles and read a Captain America book once in a while, you would see that Cap is one of the BEST in the Marvel Universe. Everyone says maybe Black Panther could beat Bat Man, but Cap has beaten BP on several occasions. Is there some reason this information doesn't compute and correlate with the Bat Fans that Cap would beat the Bat? I'll give you it would be a HUGE match-up (why any of you think this would be a short fight I can't even fathom), but in the end CAP WOULD WIN. Period.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
actuallu, batman has another advantage, his darker nature and exclusion from the world has let him transend the boundries of normal human strength and endurance, he has been known to literrally bash through brick walls and beat people to nearly to death when he is angry. and again i say that he has mastered EVERY form of martial arts on the DC earth. and he has had a rough deal in the past and has been through a lot of punishment, plus he has superior acrobatic skills and NEAR peak level human strength for a man his size.
also even if he was bumped hard with cap's shield, he wouldnt just faint, hed be injured i admit but this kinda stuff has happened to him a lot, plus, if cap gets his shield then bat should be allowed his gizmos, which would pretty much make him unstoppable against cap.and another thing, even if u do bench press or lift over 700 pounds, u can still retain ur agility if u train ur whole body right.
trust me theres been hundreds of people way stronger than bats that has been bashed unconcious by that shield, not in one hit but in several hits
by the way acrobatic skill and near peak human level strength is impossible to have both of, olympic weightlifters have an enormous amount of strength but they have a hard time pulling their arms over their heads, when you have good acrobatics youre required to keep your muscle mass at a certain level or you wont be able to perform acrobatic feats, kind of like daredevil......but this is a comic book character so what does that matter
Originally posted by Havoc470
by the way acrobatic skill and near peak human level strength is impossible to have both of, olympic weightlifters have an enormous amount of strength but they have a hard time pulling their arms over their heads, when you have good acrobatics youre required to keep your muscle mass at a certain level or you wont be able to perform acrobatic feats, kind of like daredevil......but this is a comic book character so what does that matter
I agree that Bats has a problem in this area, but Cap's body was genetically re-mapped by the Super Soldier Serum to bring his physique to the absolute top of human levels in ALL aspects. His strength and agility are both at the extreme peak of human biology.
actually guys, ive been readin cap for a long time (not as much as some of you guys but a lot). batman is superior in fighting ability to cap. his strength is not as weak as u think compared to cap. bats is also as if not more intelligent than cap. cap has the strength and the stamina, bats has speed, skill and agility.
look guys, i'm all for debating, but its quite obvious were not gonna agree on this. ever.
bats has great fighting skill in martial arts, cap has great fighting skill in general, batman has good agility, cap has amazing endurance, batman is weaker (not by much) than cap, cap has an unbreakable shield which he's used against thousands stronger than batman, batman has amazing tactics while no one matches caps tactics imo, batman may have greater intelligence at science or anything of that nature, but his strategic intelligence doesnt match caps (based on what i read of both of these characters) speed i think goes in hand with endurance as speed does prove to strain on the body and that would have to deal with endurance
from what i know of these two characters, captain america would win, but it would be one hell of a great fight, i wish i was an amazing artist so i could draw some of the battles the way i see them in my head
The differences between these characters are minimal.
Martial skill, slight advantage to Batman.
Acrobatics. noticeble advantage to Batman.
Strength, slight advantage to Cap (note that it is slight because of Bat's acrobatic nature i.e. his strength is better spread out.)
Endurance, Obvious advantage to Cap (although this fight is not likely to last that long.)
Equipment, slight advantage to Batman (that shield really does make up for alot.)
Strategy, slight advantage to Batman (Cap's a team player, Bat's is better at one on one combat, also Batman's "dark" nature is calculated here.)
Intellegence, obvious advantage Batman, although It's very unlikely to have an effect on the battle, should an advantageous circumstance arrive, Batman WILL be the first to take advantage. His brain just works differently than most human.
Will, tie (isn't this part of what makes these two characters great?)
And by the way, there is no way that BP is as good a martial artist as either of these two characters CaptJ.K..
Hey, guess what? I agree with parts of your arguement. But here's where you're wrong.
1) There is no way Bat Man has an advantage in martial fighting skill over Cap. Cap (and I say it AGAIN), has been acknowledged by almost EVERY Marvel Universe character who would have knowledge of such things that he is one of the BEST! Even Bat Man acknowledges that they're dead even in this department.
2) I mark them even in agility. Cap is the absolute PEAK of human ability, but Bat Man spends his life jumping off rooftops and dodging bullets from back alley punks, so no way is he a slouch in this department.
3) I put Cap's strength a little more than a SLIGHT advantage. Cap is THE PEAK of human ability. Have you ever seen an Olympic dead weight power lifter? The current world record stands at 2149.49 lbs.! NO WAY Bats is lifting that! Cap is BETTER!
4) Although I believe this WOULD be a long, drawn-out fight (I give credit where credit is due to Bat Man), the endurance factor is obviously in Cap'a favor. He would only have to wait for the Bats to tire.
5) I agree Bat Man's equipment is an advantage for him, as he carries different tools for different circumstances, while Cap's shield is almost more of an extension of his fighting style and not really "equipment" per se. But the shield still "ROCKS!"
6) I give strategy as even. Cap is EQUALLY adept at fighting alone as Bat Man, PLUS he's a good team leader. It is possible to be both, and Cap is proof of that. He's had his own comic for 63 years!
7) I don't see how you can say intelligence goes to Bat Man. Maybe if they need to track each other to fight, yeah, the Bats will figure out that "such and such dirt can only be found on the port side of town, therefore...", but on the battlefield, this is where Cap excells. He is a master at battlefield tactics. He sees the whole fight at once and chooses his and his enemy's next 3 moves. Anyone who has ever read a Cap comic knows this. No one is better at this than him. In the JLA/Avengers crossover, EVERYONE (including Bat Man), UNANIMOUSLY chose CAPTAIN AMERICA to lead the assault on Krona's fortress.
***Ran out of room.***
And I only mentioned BP earlier, because someone else did. I don't think BP is in either of these guys' league, but someone said BP could beat Bat Man, and since Cap has beaten BP on SEVERAL occassions, I just thought that shouldn't this correlate intl Cap beating Bat Man. Personally, I think either Bats OR Cap could easily defeat Black Panther, even with all of his new gizmos.
He's close, but Cap IS BETTER. Much of what T'Challa knows about hand-to-hand combat, he learned from Cap as an Avenger. Read some of the older Avenger comics when BP was a member and you'll see this. When BP first entered the Avengers, he was little more than an enhanced acrobat. Cap was instrumental in turning him into the combatant he is today. Cap was and still is THE trainer for heroes in the Avengers. BP was no exception. And it is only recently, with the resurgence of his own book, that BP is becoming "bigger and badder". But he is NOT on the same level as Captain America OR Bat Man.