Batman vs Captain America

The problem with the fight is that Captain America is to much of a nice guy. Batman seems to be meaner and will go to any means to win. If Cap got pissed and fought ruthlessly, I think he wins. Especially if there were no weapons involved.

It was mentioned before that Batman has fought deadlier villians,,,,,I dont agree with that comment. I dont want to list a bunch of villians but the Red Skull, Dr. Doom, Zemo, Thanos with the infinity gems, etc,,,all seem to be fairly deadly in my opinion.

As for Batman being more prepared than Cap,,,,i've never seen any hero more physically or mentally ready than Cap. Batman would also fit into this category. Both heros have the mentallity that they refuse to lose. It would be a great brawl.

Originally posted by shadejford
Some users think Captain America is stronger, faster and a better warrior than Batman. The term "Super-Soldier Serum" is kind of a misnomer. That serum just upgraded Steve Rogers' body and reflexes to the peak of human physical perfection. Bruce Wayne upgraded his body to this same peak of perfection through long, intense, consistent training. Both men have mastered all known forms of human combat. Mentally, Batman has the edge for,unlike Cap, Batman is a realist while Cap is a dreamer. Captain America represents the American Dream while Batman represents the American Reality.

Originally posted by kal-el
I think cap takes it. He's been everywhere and done everything! I prefer bats as a character but he wouldn't use anything but his fists and feet against cap coz he's very macho and would want to see if he could beat him.He'd use batarangs at most to counter the shield(in someway) but toe to toe just fighting, the super soldier takes it. believe it or not, cap IS stronger and faster.Cap lifts 8oolbs and bats prob only lifts about 500lbs absolute max. regardless of anything else, thats a huge strength advantage.

The whole point of Cap being the perfect human specimen is that he is unnattainably perfect. not even through all the training in the world can anyone, anywhere reach the peak of human potential, not even Batman. Cap is as perfect as he can be,otherwise there'd be no point in inventing super-soldier serum would there?!They could just make some people work out for a few years. He IS faster, stronger and more agile than bats and is just as good a fighter. He's also just as savvy and tough willed. Bats physical strength is closer to Daredevils(dont argue with this, its been discussed on another bats forum and thery're the same strength) which is prob about 500lbs maybe 600lbs given that I've seen DD lift 400lbs easily and bats is prob the same, I've never seen bats actually do anything as strong as the stuff I've seen DD do(like tip a car over on its side) but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Cap is stronger than these two and much beefier(DD 200lbs,bats 210lbs,Cap 240lbs!), and can lift about 800lbs. Cap IMO would win but the crossovers never portray cap's edge over bats for some reason.Although in the recent JLA/Avengers crossover, they blocked a few shots from eachother (but cap landed slightly more) and then bats deduced that ' it's conceivable you could beat me captain America but it would take a very long time, would you rather do that or find out who the real bad guys are?'Of course cap had thought the same thing.
Both great fighters and great detectives!

Was capttain americas super soldier programe orchestrated by Weapon Plus??

Originally posted by kal-el
\Although in the recent JLA/Avengers crossover, they blocked a few shots from eachother (but cap landed slightly more) and then bats deduced that ' it's conceivable you could beat me captain America but it would take a very long time, would you rather do that or find out who the real bad guys are?'Of course cap had thought the same thing.

And this scenario was, of course, sans prep time.

And do not get it twisted. He did say that "it is CONCEIVABLE you could beat me." That is not to be interpreted as "Captain America, you WOULD DEFINITELY beat me."

They are, however, very evenly matched in many areas.

yes, Captain america was the ultimate success of Weapon I

In a fight between Cap and Bats, would result in a tie. Because of the fact that this battle has already happened. They are evenly matched

Originally posted by kal-el
The whole point of Cap being the perfect human specimen is that he is unnattainably perfect. not even through all the training in the world can anyone, anywhere reach the peak of human potential, not even Batman. Cap is as perfect as he can be,otherwise there'd be no point in inventing super-soldier serum would there?!

I absolutely agree with this. why would weapon x invent a serum that would just be the equivalent of working out a lot. besides, batman had a lot of training and a lot of working out... caps had a lot of training, a lot of working out, plus he got that serrum. don't tell me that batman had better training unless you can prove it. remember that caps was a soldier and probably had the best mentors they could find.

Originally posted by Never
And this scenario was, of course, sans prep time.

And do not get it twisted. He did say that "it is CONCEIVABLE you could beat me." That is not to be interpreted as "Captain America, you WOULD DEFINITELY beat me."

They are, however, very evenly matched in many areas.

True about the prep time( I assume you are counting in Bats' favour) but remember Cap could prepare a pretty good battle plan too. He's a super-soldier!

I DO interperate Bat's saying that Cap(or anybody) could conceivably beat him as him really thinking that they will(IMO).He NEVER says anything remotely like that. He's too proud stubborn, confident.

Originally posted by kal-el
He NEVER says anything remotely like that. He's too proud stubborn, confident.

As a rule, he never wants to end a fight without defeating his opponent. What do you think he should have said? "It's obvious I'm going to kick your ass anyway, so why don't you just cut it out and we can work together"?

Even Batman is more diplomatic than that.

Yes but my point is, he is never that charitable in comparing a rival to himself. He didn't have to say anything like that at all - but he did, because IMO, he was gobsmacked. You've read the said comic by the way?

Originally posted by kal-el
You've read the said comic by the way?

I've read it, althoughI don't own it. Honestly, I skimmed through most of it; I don't know much about Marvel, so it was sort of pointless for me.

just making sure you saw that short 'non-fight' between the 2 men in question. It was well done I thought. As for the whole comic.It was only worth a skim anyway mate.

Originally posted by FrothByte
caps had a lot of training, a lot of working out, plus he got that serrum. don't tell me that batman had better training unless you can prove it. remember that caps was a soldier and probably had the best mentors they could find.

This is no end-all. Black Panther has less "formal training" and would kick the Sunny Delight out of Cap's ass. Training? Yes, soldier training. Some martial arts as well - yet Batman was trained by ***the best*** martial artist in the DCU. This means nothing...?

"Perfect human specimen." Mmm, with "super serum." Kind of diminishes his stature as the "perfect human specimen," no? Batman is Cap's equal (or superior, depending) with **no serum.** Hmmm.

>>I DO interperate Bat's saying that Cap(or anybody) could conceivably beat him as him really thinking that they will(IMO).<<

Not worth either of our time to stubbornly argue semantics, so I will settle by saying that I did not read it that way. Sounds as if Cap has a 50/50 chance of beating Batman, in my opinion.

And Batman has been "that charitable" before. Now perhaps it would be a bit of a stretch to say that is the norm; however, have you read the "Prometheus Unbound" story arc wherein Prometheus literally beat Batman's ass?

Fair points Never. I did read it that way but I'm sure I could be wrong.I'll go 50/50 too.

Now back to the Panther. I have a comic called 'contest of champions 2' I think! it's a tournament between Marvel characters. Cap beats T'challa but only coz t'challa was not as professional as cap and couldn't get over the fact that he was fighting his friend. It intrigues me. Black Panther could own all these peak human fighters(cap, bats, DD) possibly. Doesn't he have enhanced strength,speed, reflexes,stamina?as in beyond human? Educate me guys!Go!

Originally posted by Never
This is no end-all. Black Panther has less "formal training" and would kick the Sunny Delight out of Cap's ass. Training? Yes, soldier training. Some martial arts as well - yet Batman was trained by ***the best*** martial artist in the DCU. This means nothing...?

Never, I love to read your inputs and I know your way ahead of me when it comes to up to date things, but I have to disagree on this one. Black Panther is one of my favorite characters and I have alot of his older series and such but I dont see him whipping Caps even with the enhanced strenght and reflexes of a cat. I love the character, but I feel that Cap has taught him a tons (leadership skills with the Avengers, although T'Challa commands Wakanda, prepeartion for a battle and probably fighting skills). I dont know. In my opinion, the Cap is superior. I just couldnt see him losing to BP. I need your intake because I havent followed the new series.

+++I also think that the whole technology aspect is a cop out. Throw away the shield and get it on. Just fists.+++

Mmm, let me ask this - have either of you read Black Panther lately? Christopher Priest's Black Panther. He was wicked back then, but now? Whew.

Originally posted by Never
Mmm, let me ask this - have either of you read Black Panther lately? Christopher Priest's Black Panther. He was wicked back then, but now? Whew.

No, thats why I asked. What did they do to the Panther that made him so bad now? From the sounds of things, they "Wonder Woman'd" him and made him powerful enough now that he cant be ignored. I can understand a book that is well written and allows you really understand the character, but please dont tell me they have T'Challa throwing cars around with one arm now.

No...hmm, how to put it? Was not augmented per sé...recall when Emma Frost occupied Drake's body and showed him just how versatile he really is? Current writer for Black Panther did the same.

He stomps Batman GIVING Batman prep time.

Panther is as smart as Tony Stark and has more resources.