Magneto vs. Gladiator

The title isn't "Official Marvel Encyclopedia 2004" It's "The X-Men: Marvel Encyclopedia Volume 2." I was referring to demi's post, not yours. Could you give the issue # that Colossus returns in?

That encyclopedia does not include reborn Colossus.

Astonishing X-Men #4. The best series in comics nowadays.

Gladiator.

It does..because in the Encyclopedia it says he was dead..pre dead Colossus is at about 75 to 80 ton class

Too confusing. I give up on the whole Colossus strength thing.

Colossus according to so many people on the forum now can lift about 20 to 25 more tons now than he could before he died...I can't prove or disprove it...but if so many believe he's stronger then I do as well.

But is this from observation, or from something Whedon said? If it's from observation, I don't understand how, because Colossus hasn't done much of anything yet since his return, and certainly nothing that makes me think he's stronger than ever. But if it's from a quote in an interview, then cool. I'd just like to know where this belief comes from.

Originally posted by demigawd
He took a lot of shots from Mjolnir and it never penetrated his forcefield. Thor resorted to absorbing Magneto's EM Power into Mjolnir to neutralize the field. After Magneto's first powerup, that trick never worked again. They never fought after his second powerup.

And don't tell me that Gladiator can hit harder than Thor with Mjolnir. He can't.

Gladiator is on a level probably just shy of Thor, but he can still pack quite an effective punch, and has more than one way to make Maggie cry like a six-year-old girl. But the source of his power is his self-esteem. That's probably why he has suffered humilating losses to less-than-stellar opponents in the past (ie. Cannonball).

Magneto can give as good as he gets. Can he take Gladiator strength..I kinda think he could.

Originally posted by Lord S
He took one or two shots from Mjolnir, weakening his field, and even panicked and said to himself that his forcefield couldn't take much more, then Thor decided not to waste any more hammer strength and just absorbed the field.

Thor was pounding on it for awhile. They cut the scene to show something else, but when they returned, the caption said that Thor had been doing that for some time. And keep in mind, that this is still Magneto BEFORE his two powerups. If old Magneto could take those shots from Thor, young post-FA Magneto could take it without flinching.

Gladiator is on a level probably just shy of Thor, but he can still pack quite an effective punch

He sure does. But Gladiator's punch is slightly weaker than Thor's punch, but Thor packs A LOT more power when he hits with Mjolnir. Old Man Magneto took several shots from Thor WITH Mjolnir. He could definitely take Gladiator's best long enough to mount a counter-offense using any of the techniques I described above.

, and has more than one way to make Maggie cry like a six-year-old girl. But the source of his power is his self-esteem. That's probably why he has suffered humilating losses to less-than-stellar opponents in the past (ie. Cannonball).

Gladiator's confidence was just fine when he lost to Gambit (though probably not so afterwards, lol). His confidence only dropped when his "most powerful blow" failed against Cannonball, which allowed Cannonball to knock him out.

So all Mags has to do is make fun of Gladiator's hairdo, then level him.

Originally posted by demigawd
Thor was pounding on it for awhile. They cut the scene to show something else, but when they returned, the caption said that Thor had been doing that for some time.

And keep in mind, that this is still Magneto BEFORE his two powerups. If old Magneto could take those shots from Thor, young post-FA Magneto could take it without flinching.

He could definitely take Gladiator's best long enough to mount a counter-offense using any of the techniques I described above.

If this technique was so easy and so devastating, then don't you think that he would have used it on the X-Men a long time ago to defeat them? This leads me to believe that it's a tactic that requires quite a bit of exertion and concentration, and it's hard to concentrate when you're up against someone of Gladiator's mettle. Plus, I find it very difficult to believe that Gladiator would succumb to that type of attack without powering his way out, or countering it.

Gladiator's confidence was just fine when he lost to Gambit (though probably not so afterwards, lol). His confidence only dropped when his "most powerful blow" failed against Cannonball, which allowed Cannonball to knock him out.

So all Mags has to do is make fun of Gladiator's hairdo, then level him.

demigawd

quote:
Originally posted by Beyonder
??? Yeah, and you think 'cause it's red and therefore oxidized AS YOU BELIEVE then Magnus can screw Kallark up?

demigawd
Of course. If he has a mouth, I assume he uses it to talk. If he has arms, I assume he uses it to hold things. If he has eyes, I assume he uses it to see. None of those are illogical just because he's "beyond human". He's humanoid, and all those things are logical assumptions because he's humanoid. Likewise, countless observations have shown that lifeforms with red blood are red because of the presence of iron in them. When it's green or some other color, it's because there's no iron.

I'm not even sure why you're arguing that point...it's quite futile.

😱

quote:

Thanos has bleed red blood, you saying Magneto can screw Thanos' blood as well?

demigawd
Yes

Oh sh!t. Thanos, who's out of Lord Chaos & Master Order's jurisdiction, and who's had a few power ups - one of them being by Mistress Death - is going to get his iron skrewed up by Magneto? 😆 You've got to be kinding me. Either you don't know who Thanos is or this is fanboyism in its purest form.

quote:

Or Thor since he's bleed red blood as well?

demigawd
Yes

😆 Then why didn't he do that to Thor in their fight?

quote:
How's about Beta Ray Bill?

demigawd
Now you're getting it!

...that you're a Magneto fanboy? Sure I get IT!

quote:

I guess anyone who's blood is red, Magneto can screw with huh?

demigawd
Well done. You catch on quick.

...no, I caught on in like a page or two ago when you said Magneto can screw with Gladiator's blood since it was red therefore has iron. That's when my fanboy alarm went off.

quote:

Really? Then why didn't he do that with Apocalypse?

demigawd
Someone didn't read Age of Apocalypse. If someone had, someone would know that that's PRECISELY what Magneto did to Apocalypse. And look...Poccy split in half!

🙄 That was because Apocalypse had Celestial parts in him, not to mention the armor. That armor was a part of him. It had nothing do with his blood.

quote:

Maybe his bouts with Thor?

demigawd
He only fought Thor during the silver age. He was depowered at the time because of his age. He didn't develop enough power to do that until his two powerups (Erik the Red and Fatal Attraxctions). The most recent time he fought Thor was along with the Avengers. He grabbed Thor's hammer and hit him over the head with it. Hey, that works too!

And did Thor lose? Did Magneto pull out his iron screwing powers on Thor? Furthermore, my post earlier was why didn't he pull out his "disintegrate anything with a nervous system instantly" (as you claimed) on Thor?

quote:

I guess he killed Doom with that one didn't he?

demigawd
They never had an extended battle.

...they didn't have one 'cause Doom mind controlled him, right? So why didn't Magnus do one of those "disintegrate anything with a nervous system instantly" on Doom? Surely he could screwed with Doom's blood as well. 🙄

quote:

Thanos, , Juggernaut, Tyrant, Magus, Adam Warlock, etc.

demigawd
He never fought any of them.

...he never fought Gladiator either. So if you claim he could just mess with Gladiator's nerve system or his blood, then you're also claiming he could do it to people who have these ananomy - like these guys I've listed earlier.

quote:
Holocaust,

demigawd
He fought him and left him without a body.

I know he did. But was it because he screwed with Holocaust's blood or nerve system?

quote:Hulk

demigawd
Fought him and absorbed his gamma radiation

When did this happen? Issues please. And absorbing gamma radiation is different from screwing with Hulk's blood or nerve system.

And Gladiator doesn't have gamma radiation to absorb.

demigawd
Stop doing my work for me and naming all these high level guys Mags owns! :laughs:

😆 The question wasn't whether he could beat them. It was "so you're saying Magneto can disintegrate guys like Holocaust & Hulk's nervous system or screw with their blood?" That was the question. Read next time please.

You've yet to prove he's pulled these techniques on super beings. Therefore, how can you say he can do these things to Gladiator?

quote:

Seriously, Gladiator is cosmic level. Don't compare him a regular human - he's far above that.

demigawd
hahahahaha...I could play your game and bring up how Gladiator and all his "cosmic level might" got owned by Cannonball of all people. And GAMBIT. GAMBIT knocked him out! Don't talk to me about Gladiator's supposed might when GAMBIT knocks him out.

Oh, how you distort events. Cannonball was getting his butt kicked through most of the fight and was being toyed with. Gladiator wasn't even there to kill Cannonball. And before he blocked Gladiator's punch, he was flinching in fear. All he did was surprise Kallark and landed his strongest punch. Gladiator is sent flying into a building. Then when Cannonball and the X-Men arrived, Gladiator easily busted out from the debris in perfect condition. He even called Cannonball a kid and didn't allow him to fellow the X-Men on their mission.

How does Cannonball getting his butt whoop like a little wuss, then surprising Gladiator with one move, and landing his best shot at Gladiator and sending Glads flying into a construction site only to have Kallark come out with no damage an owning for Cannonball? It only stopped when the X-Men arrived; otherwise if it'd continue, Gladiator would've beaten Cannonball's face in.

As for the Gambit bit, then let's play this game. Cause Wolverine beat Magneto as well did he not? Wolverine, the runt, punking Magneto.

quote:

Heck, I have doubts that Magnus can affect Holocaust or Hulk much less cosmic level guys like Kallark.

You must be doing this on purpose...you named two guys Magnus DID affect. Stop playin!

Did effect? So which technique did he use on each? The iron blood or the nervous system one?

quote:

Nice to know he can affect regular joes. Now has he done this to mutants, high level superbeings like Black Bolt or Thing, cosmics like Quasar, Thor, or Hyperion? Just cause he's messed with regular humans, he's still yet to show he can mess with high level superbeings much less Gladiator.

demigawd
You're missing the point - what just about all of these people have in common is the fact that they're all made of the same building blocks, and that's why doing the little things are just as effective. At the atomic level, there really IS no difference between the regular Joe and superbeings. And that's where Magneto shines.

And just so we're clear - he has messed with high level superbeings. And Gladiator would hardly be the most powerful opponent he's faced. He took down the Phoenix Entity.

So you're saying he can affect Silver Surfer, Morg, Tyrant, Thanos, Magus, Adam Warlock, and other cosmic levels so long as they have the same building block? 😛uke:

So your saying he beat the Phoenix Entity? The Phoenix host and entity are two different beings. And affecting one that's developing her powers isn't the same as someone with experience of their powers.

quote:

Worse being what? Don't just say worse.

demigawd
ok. His shield's have taken Thor pounding on it with his hammer, over and over.[quote]

Yeah? And how fast is Thor? Gladiator has operated at faster than lightspeed before. Reed had to use a device to increase Thor's speed to much Gladiator in one of their previous fights. Gladiator's punches are harder than Thor's. Thor's pounding are at normal speed while Glad's punches are at lightspeed. It packs more punch do to his speed.

[quote]quote:

And how many times has Magneto taken a punch from a Class 100 and brushed it off?

demigawd
Hulk, Colossus, Apocalypse.

...with his shield smashed? Of course he can do it with his shields operable.

quote:

Gladiator is above Class 100 and moves faster than light.

demigawd
Fat lot of good that did him against Cannonball WITH HIS MOST POWERFUL BLOW. :laughs:[quote]

How's about all the other punches he landed on Cannonball throughout most of the fight? He was toying with the kid - he wasn't going to kill him. Cannonball was peeing in his pants most of the fight. Even his speed was outmatched by Kallark.

Furthermore, Cannonball was flinching/unassured when Gladiator threw that punch. Then Cannonball landed his strongest blow - which sent Gladiator flying, but it did damage Kallark in anyway. If they continued, Gladiator would've b!tchslap Cannonball some more.
quote:

[quote]*laughs* Worse being what again? Gladiator moves asteroids and smashed a small planet to pieces in three punch.

demigawd
And couldn't break through Cannonball's shield....WITH HIS MOST POWERFUL BLOW (Gladiator's quote, not mine).

You really think that was his most powerful blow? His most powerful blows broke a planet to pieces. If he was using his most powerful blow, then his intention would be to murder Cannonball if it connected. Did you read the book demigawd or just looked at the pictures? He wasn't there to kill Cannonball. He was their to find the X-Men and send them on a mission. Even throughout the fight, he was toying with Cannonball. You think all of a sudden he was going to kill a member of the X-Men just like that? And then what:

Wolverine: Hey Praetor, what're you doing on Earth?
Gladiator: I've come here on a mission to find the X-Men as her royalness Lilandra commanded.
Magneto: Okay, so what does she want?
Gladiator: To send you on an important mission on behalf of the Shi'Ar.
Rogue: Sure, sugah. We'll help Lilandra.
*as the X-Men prepare to be teleported*
Gladiator: Oh by the way, I intentionally killed one of your X-Men.
Wolverine: Which one bub?
Gladiator: Cannonball.
Wolverine: Hmm, no biggy. He wasn't very important anyways...or one of the more popular members.

Yeah, I guess that's how the X-Men would probably react after finding out the Gladiator intentionally killed one of their members. 🙄

quote:
Yeah, because Polaris didn't know who he was fighting? In a straight up fight, Superman wouldn't get wrecked by Polaris.

demigawd
wtf? How could Polaris NOT know who he was fighting. It's SUPERMAN. hahahha.

wtf? How could Polaris NOT know who he was fighting. It's SUPERMAN. hahahha.

Yeah, 'cause Magneto knows all about Gladiator. And therefore would kick his butt with the iron blood or nervous system technique.

Originally posted by Lord S
Surely you jest...if you think you saw Thor's best against "old man Magneto", then you're crazy. Thor has cracked the armour of a Celestial using his hammer...and if he decided to hit Magneto at full force, it would break him in half...young or old, forcefield or no forcefield.

Using that logic, he could crack anyone in half with one blow. Hulk, Juggernaut, anyone. But he doesn't. None of them are more durable than a Celestial's armor. Whether he holds back his full force or not is moot - Magneto took multiple shots with his shield and it never cracked. We don't know how many more shots he could actually take.

Besides, this is still the pre-powerup Magneto anyway. However many shots he took before, he could take more now. From Thor, Gladiator, Hulk, anybody.

Oh yes, your techniques...where he can control the iron in people's blood...and according to you, he can even best someone like Thanos with this unique ability...which is laughable at best, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

I didn't say he could beat Thanos. The thing about REAL cosmic level people is that they have regenerative abilities and bodies made entirely out of energy. They control energy on a greater scale than Magneto. So anything that Magneto could do to Thanos, Thanos could undo and do to Magneto for an even greater effect.

Gladiator is not such a person.

If this technique was so easy and so devastating, then don't you think that he would have used it on the X-Men a long time ago to defeat them?

I suppose he didn't for the same reason Thor doesn't run around cracking people in half with Celestial-armor breaking hammer blows. 😆 No dramatic tension.

This leads me to believe that it's a tactic that requires quite a bit of exertion and concentration, and it's hard to concentrate when you're up against someone of Gladiator's mettle. Plus, I find it very difficult to believe that Gladiator would succumb to that type of attack without powering his way out, or countering it.

Gladiator has no atomic or subatomic control over his body. He CAN'T resist it because it functions at a smaller scale than Gladiator has control over. That's why it's effective, the same way it was effective against Superman. And it's not a tactic that requires "quite a bit of exertion and conentration". Magneto was able to simultaneously block telepathy over a wide region, take control over the blood of ALL the X-men, ALL of X-force and ALL of X-factor at the same time, and keep Avalon (Ship) in near earth orbit. And showed no strain in doing so. If he can do all that, the idea that he couldn't do it to Gladiator without a lot of mental strain is laughable.

Ok fine, some unexplainable occurrences do happen at Marvel, and these are a couple of examples. Let's say Magneto manages to block a punch from Gladiator...what next?

Magneto goes on the offensive and controls the iron in Glad's blood and knocks him out.

Gladiator has a lot more in his arsenal than just brute strength. He has speed capable of reaching hyperspace, agility

Great, so he can run away that much faster...

and heat vision.

heat vision would be a BIG mistake against Magneto. He can deflect it and hit Gladiator with his own heat vision. Magneto can deflect any elemental energy, such as the kind that produces heat, such as Gambit's cards. He can only block concussive energy, such as Cyclop's blast.

You're telling me Magneto would be able to counter all of that?

I guess he couldn't counter Gladiator using his hyperspace speed to run away. But the rest, sure.

All while holding his shield up?

Holding his shield up is basic. In fact, he has two shields. One is his personal magnetic shield, which is ALWAYS up, and allows him to take hits from C100 foes. The other is his conscious forcefield, which repels objects. Neither of them take any effort on his part.

I've noticed that he's not good at doing two things at once...it should be pretty obvious that holding his forcefield up takes a bit out of him, and I've never seen him go on the offensive, while in defensive mode.

Then you don't read much Magneto. But the example I named above is during the opening chapter of Fatal Attractions is a perfect example of him doing MANY things at once.

Something's gotta give if he's going to attack, and it will be his forcefield. Next task is catching Gladiator...which will not be easy, since he has speed and agility that would rival that of the Silver Surfer (well maybe not that fast).

That speed and agility doesn't mean much, because the nature of Magneto's power is environmental in scale. It's not like Magneto is going to try to PUNCH Gladiator or do anything that requires aiming. Gladiator would have to remove himself from the battlefield entirely to be outside of Magneto's range.

Next step is trying to control the iron in his blood...that is if he hasn't already been knocked on his ass by Kallark for taking so damn long.

That's generally option #2 for Magneto, it wouldn't take very long for him to get there. And given that he knows all about Gladiator by now, he'd probably make it option #1.

Your fanboyism amuses me. As mentioned before, if it were that easy to topple the Praetor of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard, then why hasn't he been able to employ such tactics to triumph over a few mutants in all these years?

1) Because he's the villain.That's like saying, "If Doom is so smart, why can't he beat the Fantastic Four"? Or "If Gladiator is so powerful, why can't he beat Gambit"?

2)Because he, at heart, bears no ill will to the X-men. He's had them dead to rights MANY, MANY times, and instead, spent all his time trying to convince them to join his cause. If he were actually ruthless and uncaring, he would have killed them lots and lots of times. Direct quote, "I see you're using metal to knock Beast out instead of punching a hole right through him. Since you're playing nice, I'll just charge these cards enough not to kill". That's been his MO from the beginning.

Originally posted by Beyonder
[B]Oh sh!t. Thanos, who's out of Lord Chaos & Master Order's jurisdiction, and who's had a few power ups - one of them being by Mistress Death - is going to get his iron skrewed up by Magneto? 😆 You've got to be kinding me. Either you don't know who Thanos is or this is fanboyism in its purest form.

You've missed my point (again). I said that Magneto could affect the iron in Thanos' blood the way he could anyone else with iron in his blood. I didn't say that means Magneto could beat Thanos. The difference between Thanos and Gladiator is that Thanos has cosmic power that gives him subatomic control to resist the microtechniques Magneto would use against him. So while he'd be affected by Magneto's technique, he could counter it just as easily. Not so for Gladiator.

😆 Then why didn't he do that to Thor in their fight?

Pre-powerup Magneto. He couldn't do it at the time. In the rematch, after one powerup, Magneto beat Thor over the head with his own hammer. AND the rest of the Avengers. That works too.

...no, I caught on in like a page or two ago when you said Magneto can screw with Gladiator's blood since it was red therefore has iron. That's when my fanboy alarm went off.

And when you argued the point that was when my "didn't pay attention in biology class" alarm went off.

🙄 That was because Apocalypse had Celestial parts in him, not to mention the armor. That armor was a part of him. It had nothing do with his blood.

Untrue - Apocalypse has no metal in him. That's his body that he shapes to any form that he wants. He just shapes it to a uniform. Magneto overrided Poccy's molecular control over his own body and split him apart.

God...how many posts did you make in a row? *sigh* Next...

Originally posted by Beyonder
And did Thor lose? Did Magneto pull out his iron screwing powers on Thor? Furthermore, my post earlier was why didn't he pull out his "disintegrate anything with a nervous system instantly" (as you claimed) on Thor?

🙄 The fight with Thor was pre-powerup, man. Besides, LOTS of characters have instant death techniques. Why doesn't Nightcrawler teleport people's heads off? Why doesn't Vision phase people's brains out? Why doesn't Apocalypse telekinetically stop everybody's hearts? Why doesn't Thor godblast everybody? You do what you think is necessary.

...they didn't have one 'cause Doom mind controlled him, right? So why didn't Magnus do one of those "disintegrate anything with a nervous system instantly" on Doom? Surely he could screwed with Doom's blood as well.

1) Doom released naniites or somesuch in the air that mind-controlled EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD. And being mind-controlled, it's not like Magneto had very many options. 🙄

2)When he WAS released from Doom's mind control, he used his control over electrical impulses (like those present in a nervous system) and blood flow to the brain to release Beast from Doom's mind control, and then went on to beat Doom and his forces.

...he never fought Gladiator either. So if you claim he could just mess with Gladiator's nerve system or his blood, then you're also claiming he could do it to people who have these ananomy - like these guys I've listed earlier.

Sure, as long as they have that kind of nervous system. Gladiator does. Surfer and other energy beings do not. But like I said before, you're missing the point. Being able to affect them like that and being able to beat them are two different things. Cosmic beings with matter manipulation abilities or regenerative abilities could counter those techniques. But because Gladiator has no such abilities, he's SOL.

I know he did. But was it because he screwed with Holocaust's blood or nerve system?

Never said, but it left him without a body. Either way, it's proof that he can affect Holocaust, despite your claims that he can't.

When did this happen? Issues please. And absorbing gamma radiation is different from screwing with Hulk's blood or nerve system.

Some issue of Defenders. It was posted on another thread. Yes, absorbing gamma radiation IS different from screwing with Hulk's blood or nervous system. Like I said, you use what works. When you have the options Magneto has at his disposal, why stick with one thing?

The question wasn't whether he could beat them. It was "so you're saying Magneto can disintegrate guys like Holocaust & Hulk's nervous system or screw with their blood?" That was the question. Read next time please.

Maybe that was how he beat Holocaust, again it never said. But either way, Magneto hasn't had to do that to them to beat them. He's resourceful.

You've yet to prove he's pulled these techniques on super beings. Therefore, how can you say he can do these things to Gladiator? [/B]

What's a super-being? He's done it to the Avengers, he's done it to the X-men, he's done it to X-factor, to X-force. He's done it to the Phoenix entity. He's done it to Apocalypse. These are all superbeings, including members with superstrength. You're trying to put Gladiator in another category. He's not. Gladiator has more in common with Colossus than with Silver Surfer.

wow, dat was a long entry.

Originally posted by demigawd
Using that logic, he could crack anyone in half with one blow. Hulk, Juggernaut, anyone.

But he doesn't.

Magneto took multiple shots with his shield and it never cracked. We don't know how many more shots he could actually take.

However many shots he took before, he could take more now. From Thor, Gladiator, Hulk, anybody.

I didn't say he could beat Thanos.

I suppose he didn't for the same reason Thor doesn't run around cracking people in half with Celestial-armor breaking hammer blows. 😆 No dramatic tension.

Gladiator has no atomic or subatomic control over his body. He CAN'T resist it because it functions at a smaller scale than Gladiator has control over. That's why it's effective, the same way it was effective against Superman. And it's not a tactic that requires "quite a bit of exertion and conentration". Magneto was able to simultaneously block telepathy over a wide region, take control over the blood of ALL the X-men, ALL of X-force and ALL of X-factor at the same time, and keep Avalon (Ship) in near earth orbit. And showed no strain in doing so. If he can do all that, the idea that he couldn't do it to Gladiator without a lot of mental strain is laughable.

Magneto goes on the offensive and controls the iron in Glad's blood and knocks him out.

Great, so he can run away that much faster...

heat vision would be a BIG mistake against Magneto. He can deflect it and hit Gladiator with his own heat vision. Magneto can deflect any elemental energy, such as the kind that produces heat, such as Gambit's cards.

He can only block concussive energy, such as Cyclop's blast.

Holding his shield up is basic. In fact, he has two shields. One is his personal magnetic shield, which is ALWAYS up, and allows him to take hits from C100 foes. The other is his conscious forcefield, which repels objects. Neither of them take any effort on his part.

That speed and agility doesn't mean much, because the nature of Magneto's power is environmental in scale. It's not like Magneto is going to try to PUNCH Gladiator or do anything that requires aiming. Gladiator would have to remove himself from the battlefield entirely to be outside of Magneto's range.

1) Because he's the villain.That's like saying, "If Doom is so smart, why can't he beat the Fantastic Four"? Or "If Gladiator is so powerful, why can't he beat Gambit"?

2)Because he, at heart, bears no ill will to the X-men. He's had them dead to rights MANY, MANY times, and instead, spent all his time trying to convince them to join his cause. If he were actually ruthless and uncaring, he would have killed them lots and lots of times. Direct quote, "I see you're using metal to knock Beast out instead of punching a hole right through him. Since you're playing nice, I'll just charge these cards enough not to kill". That's been his MO from the beginning.

You should give more credit to the heroes standing up to him, instead of playing the old "he beat himself" card.

You're trying to put Gladiator in another category. He's not. Gladiator has more in common with Colossus than with Silver Surfer.

BTW, Gladiator IS in a category with the Silver Surfer...Colossus is a joke compared to Glad...and it's been proven.