I've read 2000 arguments, Reviewed everytime that I have had a conflict in my life, and seen the history of many wars. We do not all have all knowlege (truth), We all can have wisdom (To know what is right and what is wrong). Apply this to your daily life.
Watch starwars, southpark, listen to eminem and FOCUS ON THE MEANING and not how it is done. They all focus on what is right and what is true.
I'll tell you what, I see my self as Kerry and Bush. The part of Kerry that I see in me is the person who can think of 20 different ways of how to do the same thing and try to debate them all.
I also see Bush's thinking within me. Don't focus so hard on what you are trying to do, but do what is right, what is good for people, and use good intentions.
They both have that much. The only other thing both of them need to learn is how to forgive. Then life has balance.
RE WATCH STARWARS, OR SOUTHPARK and seek the meaning as see the pattern in what it is saying and how it applies to how we live together.
Accept how other people think, have patience, and do good to others (You will all have your own opinion but your opinion MAY not be fact). Wow, I know this is the value of religion. I'm voting on basic principles. I'll vote Bush. Basics are the foundation of this country and the balance of society. Bush is the candidate that has said it on television for 4 years and lived it even more after 911. Bush saw lies of Clinton and went to the office, he saw death and found the truth. He hasn't said anything different and has acted on religious principles and basic logic. That is fact. Your opinions will be opinions. I have studied and seen this knowledge. Seeing is believing, and I also use knowledge and apply it to problems I see.
PVS wrote:
bickering and smileys aside, its nice to debate with a bush supporter who actually pays attention to the issues, and doesnt just repeat "flip flop" and "four more years" and other mindless rambling
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN >>>>> YESSSS!!!!!!!!
I saw myself as paying attention to the issues, now I hope I'm seen by everyone as I see myself. (aka the truth) instead of "fantastically dumb" by an unnamed moderator.
Triple post... I guess I can forgive it.
Unfortunately, your love of Bush's "values and determination" and your problems with Kerry's "indecisiveness" are completely irrelevant. You desperately need an education in how our political system works if you think that anything Bush or Kerry say during this election season has a direct bearing on what they will due in the next Presidential term. Bush/Kerry are figureheads. The two parties are what matters.
Bush will say anything to get elected and so will Kerry. The difference lies with how things will turn out after the fact. The current Republican administration, not Bush, is where the real problems lie. "Determination and Resolve" have nothing to do with the initiatives that these people are going to push. Having democrats in control of the executive branch is far preferable to staying with the repubs.
-The rest of the world prefers John Kerry and the democrats. Accept it. This means more support from our allies. Accept it.
-This current faith-based administration is grossly incompetent when it comes to military planning, and has no idea how to fight terrorism. They will continue creating more and more terrorists. Accept it.
-This administration is ruining our economy. Every conservative who isn't a partisan hack has said so. Accept it.
-The Bush administration has crushed the healthcare system (and BTW, the dems plan is not a "big guv'ment" takeover).
-The republicans' marriage with big business is choking the middle-class. They do not care about family values. They are politicians. Accept it.
-The republicans are endangering Social Security. If fiscal responsibility is not restored, you're certainly going to feel the burden when you're a senior citizen.
-No matter how much you think it might happen, the Bush administration is not going to get the anti-gay amendment into the constitution, and they are not going to make abortions illegal. They are all cat, no hat.
-Our education system is plummeting. Less people want to be teachers anyway, but now they have so many extra they have to do to become one anyway, and there are not enough incentives. Republicans don't care about education. Case in point: No child left behind (which demonstrates a laziness when it comes to educational reform). Democrats have the ties to teachers. Accept it.
-Democrats are better on labor, and therefore are better for the middle-class for that simple reason alone. Proof that they are better on the labor issue? How about the fact that they have a massive monopoly on unions and all forms of organized labor.
-The republicans are severely under-funding police/firefighters. Proof? The wide majority of police/firefighter organizations/unions support the democrats.
-The tax cuts were bad for the economy. Trickle-down economics is a joke in this situation. Democrats will provide fiscal responsibility (a very conservative ideal, btw). Accept it.
And the list could go on for hours...
Forget Bush. Forget Kerry. Read up on how the presidency works. The party controls the White House; not a single man. They have advisors that will guarantee that indecisiveness isn't an issue. And yes, that means I reject the whole "Bush hesitated on 9/11" thing too. I don't care about that, as our system didn't require him to do anything. Military/civilian authorities have more power than people realize, and they are the ones we are relying on, not our president.
Don't be naive, and definitely do not use Star Wars to try and support Bush. The irony there is simply laughable.
It has nothing to do with irony. I'm thinking philosophically. For all I could be meaning... its the meaning its self. I believe both candidates are flawed. I myself need to change with a changing world.
There is one constant. The truth.
During this age, many people have had access to millions of hours of experiences that are true because they have affirmed it in life. You can tell if something is a lie because it doesn't make sense.
The problem with this debate is that I didn't mean it to be a debate. If that is a reoccurance, I assure you I've heard this repeat. In starwars Things Repeat. Why? Basic issues are raised when important matters are discussed. That is why I vote Bush. Not that I disagree with Kerry, I just choose the candidate that held the country when life was questioned. We are by no means perfect. That is what I'm saying. We can't stop the terrorists though because we can't change their minds quickly enough to stop them from destroying the world. To stop a terrorist (even logically to change a terrorists mind) would take over 9 years at the least. How long would it convince you to believe that the terrorists are doing the right thing? I wouldn't believe it, and I would stop them, ask them if they will talk. If they didn't, I would attack them again, ask if they would talk about it, until they would. I think Bush should do that.... but time has yet to tell.
One thing, don't blame any administration. I meant not to say Kerry is wrong. He has his abilities to add to the US. I have no doubts there.
Please understand me. That is what is at stake in the world. We have to understand each other. Language is a barrier, so is culture.
Please don't make a mistake and misjudge me. (sounds familiar) it should. I heard Bush say, "make no mistake" It is a good idea and wise to make no mistake. On that note, it is also a good idea to take Kerry's ideas, he just fails to communicate them to the general public. I'm not considering myself in the general public. Please believe that.
I've found that when people argue, both hold the truth. A part of the truth, and all those parts must be gathered. Today, you can gather them at light speed. You can almost see why we are here now with this many problems. Basic questions of the world are being reasked.
Please forgive my double post. Please understand that I take time to carefully word this, and I can't edit after 15 minutes are up.
We are all terrorists if we misunderstand each other.
Something I believe just now. Because any war started with misjudging, who did the misjudging? Didn't Bush ask to be understood before he went into Iraq? Did Saddam misjudge Bush? Did Bush misjudge Saddam. Both are possible. That is how war happens.
Saddam still lives, and is captured. Please note that. That did happen for a reason. The truth will show itself.
This post is so important to me. I know that I believe it. I'm very serious.
Originally posted by Darth Surgent
Triple post... I guess I can forgive it.Unfortunately, your love of Bush's "values and determination" and your problems with Kerry's "indecisiveness" are completely irrelevant. You desperately need an education in how our political system works if you think that anything Bush or Kerry say during this election season has a direct bearing on what they will due in the next Presidential term. Bush/Kerry are figureheads. The two parties are what matters.
Bush will say anything to get elected and so will Kerry. The difference lies with how things will turn out after the fact. The current Republican administration, not Bush, is where the real problems lie. "Determination and Resolve" have nothing to do with the initiatives that these people are going to push. Having democrats in control of the executive branch is far preferable to staying with the repubs.
-The rest of the world prefers John Kerry and the democrats. Accept it. This means more support from our allies. Accept it.
-This current faith-based administration is grossly incompetent when it comes to military planning, and has no idea how to fight terrorism. They will continue creating more and more terrorists. Accept it.
-This administration is ruining our economy. Every conservative who isn't a partisan hack has said so. Accept it.
-The Bush administration has crushed the healthcare system (and BTW, the dems plan is [b]not
a "big guv'ment" takeover).-The republicans' marriage with big business is choking the middle-class. They do not care about family values. They are politicians. Accept it.
-The republicans are endangering Social Security. If fiscal responsibility is not restored, you're certainly going to feel the burden when you're a senior citizen.
-No matter how much you think it might happen, the Bush administration is not going to get the anti-gay amendment into the constitution, and they are not going to make abortions illegal. They are all cat, no hat.
-Our education system is plummeting. Less people want to be teachers anyway, but now they have so many extra they have to do to become one anyway, and there are not enough incentives. Republicans don't care about education. Case in point: No child left behind (which demonstrates a laziness when it comes to educational reform). Democrats have the ties to teachers. Accept it.
-Democrats are better on labor, and therefore are better for the middle-class for that simple reason alone. Proof that they are better on the labor issue? How about the fact that they have a massive monopoly on unions and all forms of organized labor.
-The republicans are severely under-funding police/firefighters. Proof? The wide majority of police/firefighter organizations/unions support the democrats.
-The tax cuts were bad for the economy. Trickle-down economics is a joke in this situation. Democrats will provide fiscal responsibility (a very conservative ideal, btw). Accept it.
And the list could go on for hours...
Forget Bush. Forget Kerry. Read up on how the presidency works. The party controls the White House; not a single man. They have advisors that will guarantee that indecisiveness isn't an issue. And yes, that means I reject the whole "Bush hesitated on 9/11" thing too. I don't care about that, as our system didn't require him to do anything. Military/civilian authorities have more power than people realize, and they are the ones we are relying on, not our president.
Don't be naive, and definitely do not use Star Wars to try and support Bush. The irony there is simply laughable. [/B]
You can say opinion, but the facts you pose are merely opinion again. You have to tell us what the Demos are going to do instead. The reason they have control and monopoly over the labor unions is because they promise them things they can't give, and they alienate them by exploiting them. The ddemocratic party sounds all nice and everything but in reality there are even fewer in power in thier party pulling the strings. They are dominated by a few people wh think they are better then everyone else, namely Kerry and Ted Kennedy... they care nothing for anyone but themselves... and they hide behind this banner of middle and lower class values 🙄
We have to see everything at the same time from the very person that says something to be sure. I just get this vibe from Bush that for a time he went astray, asked for forgiveness, and now he seeks understanding and truth. That search, everytime, asks people to see the truth within themselves... and that is a scarey thing. That is maybe why the terrorists are attacking us. Precisely why Bush said "Make no mistake". He is asking for understanding and no one believes him. I need to believe everyone is telling some part of a truth. We all need to do this. I've logically thought about the consequences of not forgiving and misunderstanding people... it is worse than you can imagine. I mean, think about it from 1998 to 2004. That is how long I questioned what society has done. I looked within my self to find the answer. Questions about war are simple. The answer is to understand, find truth, and forgive. I give you this. Bush needs to ask for forgiveness. That ,maybe, only he knows he is doing. It is not for us to judge, it is himself. (biblical sounding isn't it? Wonder why. People always asked the same question over and over for many years)
oh god you people just think bush has a heart of gold
and kerry is a blackhearted scumbag.
ever think that you are wrong on both?
raven, you strike down surgents arguement because its partly based on opinion with your own arguement based fully on opinion.
and kingkoot, remember the USS Abraham Lincoln, when bush declared the end of major combat operations in Iraq? was that not a mistake?
well bush thinks not...i have some famous words for you ""You bet I'd do it again".
not only will he not admit an error in judgement, but he insists that he would do it again...20/20 blindsight.
and dont give me any BS about saddam's capture, because bush said it was the end of "major combat operations in iraq." he was dead wrong, and he's proud of it.
"mission accomplished"
yeah right
During these last few days, hearing Bush's speeches about how great things are going in Iraq, and how he's made America safer at home....I kind of want him to win.
Let him clean up his own mess.
Iraq will only get worse until it truly becomes another Vietnam, another terrorist attack is bound to happen in the next 4 years.
I wonder what W will say when that happens? "Oppps, sorry folks, I guess I haven't been doing all I can to keep you safe. *stupid face, wink*"
The economy is a disaster and they're already predicting a RECESSION to occur in the next four years. Which will undoubtedly be magnified when the next attack occurs.
So basically, regardless of who wins, because of the environment Bush has created, we can expect another decade of pure crap.
Given Bush's horrible precedent, I dont think Kerry could clean it up.
Might as well let Dubya wallow in the filth he's created.
Then definitely by 2008 Bush will go down in history as the worst preident ever, no one would ever think about voting Republican again and for sure you'll be calling Hillary C, Mrs. President! 🙂
Originally posted by Tex
During these last few days, hearing Bush's speeches about how great things are going in Iraq, and how he's made America safer at home....I kind of want him to win.Let him clean up his own mess.
Iraq will only get worse until it truly becomes another Vietnam, another terrorist attack is bound to happen in the next 4 years.I wonder what W will say when that happens? "Oppps, sorry folks, I guess I haven't been doing all I can to keep you safe. *stupid face, wink*"
The economy is a disaster and they're already predicting a RECESSION to occur in the next four years. Which will undoubtedly be magnified when the next attack occurs.
So basically, regardless of who wins, because of the environment Bush has created, we can expect another decade of pure crap.
Given Bush's horrible precedent, I dont think Kerry could clean it up.Might as well let Dubya wallow in the filth he's created.
Then definitely by 2008 Bush will go down in history as the worst preident ever, no one would ever think about voting Republican again and for sure you'll be calling Hillary C, Mrs. President! 🙂
Damn sexy speach Tex!! 👆
Damn sexy speach Tex!!
Thanks doll cakes!
I'm wearing my best do-me duds; lunching with friends today downtown ! 🪩
I get all bitchy preachy and menstrual before lunch! diva
nd surgent is correct, bush jr. is bush sr. is reagan is nixon and so on. the party is what makes the decisions, and dubya is the mouthpiece. same goes for the dems, but on a smaller scale.
It was in fact Wolfowitz and Rumsfield who first proposed invading Iraq.
It was Runsfelds long time good friend Cheney who convinced Bush to go along with the idea.
Collin Powell was the only one who tried to convince Bush not to invade.
And when the decision was finally made, Collin Powell and many in the pentagons military ranks tried tirelessly to convince Runsfeld that they needed more troops.
Runsfeld wouldn't hear it.
That's why Iraq is in such bad shape, not enough troops went in to secure the area, and the poor planning to deal with Iraq afterwards only fueled the debacle.
Bush gets too much credit.
Originally posted by PVS
oh god you people just think bush has a heart of gold
and kerry is a blackhearted scumbag.ever think that you are wrong on both?
raven, you strike down surgents arguement because its partly based on opinion with your own arguement based fully on opinion.
and kingkoot, remember the USS Abraham Lincoln, when bush declared the end of major combat operations in Iraq? was that not a mistake?
well bush thinks not...i have some famous words for you ""You bet I'd do it again".not only will he not admit an error in judgement, but he insists that he would do it again...20/20 blindsight.
and dont give me any BS about saddam's capture, because bush said it was the end of "major combat operations in iraq." he was dead wrong, and he's proud of it.
"mission accomplished"
yeah right
What? ..... If you haven't noticed.... everything i basically said was true. Surgent used facts that are not fully facts... and what truth in them he never tried explained why it is that way. Everyone knows that those with the loudest voices dominate a party.... and Kerry and Kennedy have the loudest and make themselves figure heads. 90% of what they say has nothing to do with the party platform, therefore alienating everyone in thier party.
Are tank divisions crossing the border? Are Marines making advances behind in APCs? Do you have any idea what a campaigns combat operations end means? Re,member Desert Shield? compared to Desert Storm? Oh and if that doesn't suffice.... maybe you shouldn't put all your knowledge and point into a sign. Which if you remember was the mission accomplish sign for the tour that the Lincon had participated in. Carriers usually put up decorations when leaving for home port. 🙄 And if you remember the first thing he said was that it was far from over.