George W Bush

oh, ok. so since our troops are not in the process of advancing the line, they are not in the middle of a military operation....only they are getting killed. our kids are getting killed after 'mission accomplished'. it was misleading and premature of him to decare it so.

look, if you wish to selectively ignore what bush stated about major operations in iraq being over and patch it up with technicalities, and if you wish to pretend that the white house DID NOT finally come out and admit to issuing that sign, and if you want to bury your head in the sand and deny that the war had only BEGUN when he made his victory speech, than that is your perogative.

its a free country right?

and please dont try to intimidate by issueing pop quizzes.
its getting old

Originally posted by PVS
oh, ok. so since our troops are not in the process of advancing the line, they are not in the middle of a military operation....only they are getting killed. our kids are getting killed after 'mission accomplished'. it was misleading and premature of him to decare it so.

look, if you wish to selectively ignore what bush stated about major operations in iraq being over and patch it up with technicalities, and if you wish to pretend that the white house DID NOT finally come out and admit to issuing that sign, and if you want to bury your head in the sand and deny that the war had only BEGUN when he made his victory speech, than that is your perogative.

its a free country right?

and please dont try to intimidate by issueing pop quizzes.
its getting old

No one operation to crush the Iraqi army is complete. This is a new battle, with partisans and terrorists. He never said it was over.... 🙄 why are you adament on trying to prove a point that basically the battlefield is a ever changing entity... its like saying everythings fine and forces from the rear assualt our position. In war, NOTHING is for certain.

And why can't you accept that carriers decorate thier deck celebrating a done tour of duty? Not to mention the President of the United States is visiting.

Oh and if you want to play the facts game... deal with my response.

and now that bin laden is on the tv threatening the u.s. with another attack, lets go back to this:

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Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part -- deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of --

THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.

Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is -- as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide -- if, in fact, he's hiding at all.

So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There's going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly. We're tough, we're strong, they're well-equipped. We have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.

Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we -- excuse me for a minute -- and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the things -- part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.

And we've got more work to do. See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle. I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not. But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective. And I can assure you, I am not going to blink. And I'm not going to get tired. Because I know what is at stake. And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom.

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"So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. "
"I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."

now go ahead and BS me by telling me thats taken out of context,
while i get the bomb shelter ready. that freak should have been taken out 3 years ago and COULD HAVE been taken out...but no...lets leave it up to afgan warlords, right?

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
No one operation to crush the Iraqi army is complete. This is a new battle, with partisans and terrorists. He never said it was over.... 🙄 why are you adament on trying to prove a point that basically the battlefield is a ever changing entity... its like saying everythings fine and forces from the rear assualt our position. In war, NOTHING is for certain.

And why can't you accept that carriers decorate thier deck celebrating a done tour of duty? Not to mention the President of the United States is visiting.

Oh and if you want to play the facts game... deal with my response.

now you use the term 'battlefield' and yet you will not accept that our troops were, are, and will be in a major military operation. please

and again, the white house admitted to issueing that sign, not the navy.
it was not for the troops on board, it was for the audience watching at home, it was to decorate the background of bush's speach, it was a lie.

and furthermore, bush said our troops would be welcome as liberators, and look what happened. no wait, tell me that never happened, right?

now you may respond "bush is not able to predict the future in a war!"
and my response "EXACTLY, so why did he pretend that he could?"

WTF? what is that?

when was this? who is asking the questions? how do we even know Bush said any of that?

What we did with the warlords is basically the kind of operation Kerry is vouching for... relying upon our allies armies to do our work. If we cannot rely upon the afgans to fight against the enemy, then how do you expect us to leave a country to them? If you knew anything about military operations, you know that it takes a lot to deploy mountaineering infantry to position in effective numbers. all we had at that moment was special forces and air support. Spec Ops operates in small numbers but can command local forces to be just as effective as advisors. Ask any Vietnam advisor and ask them that the company they commanded was not equal to any American infantry regiment.

thats right, take one point and run with it,
ignore the others.

and what are you trying to disprove about what bush said, please quote me.

and no, a band of afgan rebels is not the equivalent to a foreign army.
and we cant just "leave the country to them" its not that simple. you dont just pick the nearest band of warlords and say "here" and give them the power. that policy is what led to the taliban taking power.
but these are mixed issues.

bin laden is OUR enemy, not just the enemy of afgan citizens.
why did we have to leave it up to afgan warlords? bin laden is still
alive, and still plotting, and EVERYTHING i quoted from bush is legit and if you like, i will post links. nothing in that press conference is taken out of context, and i abreviated absolutely not a word.

Originally posted by PVS
now you use the term 'battlefield' and yet you will not accept that our troops were, are, and will be in a major military operation. please

and again, the white house admitted to issueing that sign, not the navy.
it was not for the troops on board, it was for the audience watching at home, it was to decorate the background of bush's speach, it was a lie.

and furthermore, bush said our troops would be welcome as liberators, and look what happened. no wait, tell me that never happened, right?

now you may respond "bush is not able to predict the future in a war!"
and my response "EXACTLY, so why did he pretend that he could?"

You don't have any idea what you are saying dude. A new battlefield already says that a new operation is at hand. Operations are troop movements. Campaigns are battlefields with specific goals, when the goals are complete, the campaign is done. If a new completely different set of goals is needed, a new campaign is created.

Who said that? When did the White House admitt the sign as thiers? and WTF is your point?

How do you know are troops were never welcomed? Were you there when are infatry entered the cities? I don't see riots attacking our troops. you don't realize that a few people can have louder voices then the far larger majority.... believe me.... if they didn't want us in thier country... there is no way that we would still be there. It is pathetic how you fall for terrorist tricks so easily, you give them exactly what they want 🙄

Originally posted by PVS
thats right, take one point and run with it,
ignore the others.

and what are you trying to disprove about what bush said, please quote me.

and no, a band of afgan rebels is not the equivalent to a foreign army.
and we cant just "leave the country to them" its not that simple. you dont just pick the nearest band of warlords and say "here" and give them the power. that policy is what led to the taliban taking power.
but these are mixed issues.

bin laden is OUR enemy, not just the enemy of afgan citizens.
why did we have to leave it up to afgan warlords? bin laden is still
alive, and still plotting, and EVERYTHING i quoted from bush is legit and if you like, i will post links. nothing in that press conference is taken out of context, and i abreviated absolutely not a word.

We are talking Rebels who fought and defeated the Russian army. They are as battle harden as any of ours if not more. And that is why there are DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS being held.

Bin Laden you forget is the enemy of all free peoples. We left it up to them because if you read anything i wrote... we had no troops in position at the time. Do you think infantry teleport there? it takes days for forces to arrive from an airport and logistical resources to deploy them to the field.... if we waited that long you would be complaining now about how we did nothing at all.

Did you read anything in my response? I want to know who was asking the questions, and when and where. If you want to post a link.... go ahead.

FOUR MORE YEARS!!!!!!!

"You don't have any idea what you are saying dude."
just keep feeding your own ego at everyone's expense.

the point about the sign is initally the white house stated that the navy issued that sign for the carrier. later they came clean and stated that THEY issued it.

and i think its pathetic how you try to patronise and belittle by attempting to pigeonhole me as "falling for the terrorists".

OVER A THOUSAND OF OUR TROOPS ARE DEAD...CAN YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT??? its not a small terrorist operation,
its a revolt, its only getting worse, and you need to recognise.

and our troops were not welcome as liberators, iraqis live in constant fear, terrorists are flooding the boarders, and its utter chaos.
our troops are spread too thin, and they are not machines, how long can this keep up?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

bush press conference at the white house

now, are you going to send me on another wild goose chase for links and then disappear without addressing them again?

Originally posted by PVS
"You don't have any idea what you are saying dude."
just keep feeding your own ego at everyone's expense.

the point about the sign is initally the white house stated that the navy issued that sign for the carrier. later they came clean and stated that THEY issued it.

and i think its pathetic how you try to patronise and belittle by attempting to pigeonhole me as "falling for the terrorists".

OVER A THOUSAND OF OUR TROOPS ARE DEAD...CAN YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT??? its not a small terrorist operation,
its a revolt, its only getting worse, and you need to recognise.

and our troops were not welcome as liberators, iraqis live in constant fear, terrorists are flooding the boarders, and its utter chaos.
our troops are spread too thin, and they are not machines, how long can this keep up?

Yes just keep trying to crawl out of your own hole. I am not feeding any ego, just uncovering the ignorance behind your "points".

Well dude, you are falling for the idea that the terrorists are some how overwhelming our forces when in fact they consist of in numbers less then .5% of the population.

1000 troops compared to 300,000 deployed... omg you know nothing about military operations. EVRY WAR BEFORE THIS HAD CASUALTY RATES RANGING from 6% to 30% and you are complaining about .3% hysterical

This is no revolution 😂 if it were a revolt.... our men would be mowing civilians down... they wouldn't be able to leave thier barrack, people, normal people would be ambushing food supplies... you wanna see revolt look at Russia, look at India. You live in a dream world if you think a revolt is less then 1% of the population. The American revolution was waged by 1/3 of the population.

Originally posted by MornGlory
FOUR MORE YEARS!!!!!!!

John Kerry is right.

Originally posted by PVS
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

bush press conference at the white house

now, are you going to send me on another wild goose chase for links and then disappear without addressing them again?

First of all... this is from March 2002... when no one knew if the guy was dead or alive 🙄

2nd... Binladen is only part of this war. If you think killing him will stop any of the terrorist, you are dellussional. If the enemy can operate indepently from him while he's in a cave, killing him would have no effect on the war. Resources have been allocated to search for him. If you want the President to waist his day looking over the same info all day loathing over only Binladen then you are delllusional because the enemy is an idealogy, not a man.

ok deny the truth, feed your ego, have a nice day

Originally posted by PVS
ok deny the truth, feed your ego, have a nice day

What truth? What have you shown me at all? All you are doing is trying to wiggle out of my points by saying that i am trying to dominate the conversation.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly

1000 troops compared to 300,000 deployed... omg you know nothing about military operations. EVRY WAR BEFORE THIS HAD CASUALTY RATES RANGING from 6% to 30% and you are complaining about .3% hysterical

I find it absolutely appalling but very characteristic that you would laugh hysterically and belittle the death of 1000+ US soldiers.

Originally posted by Tex
I find it absolutely appalling but very characteristic that you would laugh hysterically and belittle the death of 1000+ US soldiers.

I do not belittle any death, but to say that men who died for something they believed in are dying for nothing is stupid and totally ungreatful. Our army does everything it can to minimize casualties, thus the low casualty rates. Ever wonder why we don't keep score on how many enemies we kill? Its around 50 enemy to each of ours.

By PVS:

our troops are spread too thin, and they are not machines, how long can this keep up?

As long as you believe you can keep it up. It is possible. It is all up to you. That is the only truth left after hearing many lies. We have all lied at some point. The only truth that is left is that we need to judge ourself. Not judge others, that is a type of slavery. There is a new movement. If you watch the Matrix, and Starwars, and Southpark, you see so many things in the meaning. It is the same "cookie" as Matt Stone said.

Our troops are specialized and are trained to fight outnumbered, equipment and training is everything, along with support. Yet We do not have enough, plain and simple. We cannot force people to join a volunteer military and we cannot force other countries to deploy forces. The only way is to make the benefits for the military better to get peeps to join.