The Bible

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Originally posted by The Omega
Elastigirl>

Well, then… The Bible, you claim, is fact???
Hmmmm…
Tell me… WHERE was Jesus born?
Who ruled when he was born?
Did Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt or didn’t they?
WHEN was Jesus born – what day?
Did Jesus appear to ten, eleven or twelwe apostles after his ressurection?
Who tempted David to number Israel…
I mean – COME ON…
2 Sam 24:1 "And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say,Go number Israel and Judah."
1 Chr 21:1 "And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel."

Which Creation account is correct?
Who was Amasa’s father?
In whose name is baptism to be performed?
Is it OK to curse people?
Is dancing a sin?
Do we have free will???
Dt. 30:19 says “yes” but Acts 13:48, Rom 8:29-30 and 9:11-22 says “no”

References please.

Here are some of the answers, as far as I know:

1. Jesus was born in Bethlehem

2. Herod

3. Joseph and Mary did flee to Egypt.

4. He was born on his birthday.

5. I'm not sure, probably no more than 11,a s Judas Iscariot was dead.

6. God was angry at Israel,so He had David take a census. Satan provoked David into taking a census. God could have had Satan provoke David. God is omnipotent you know.

7. The account in Genesis. Are there any others?

8. Amasa's father is listed as both Ithra & Jether, which (in the Hebrew language) is like the difference between Joe and Joseph.

9. It's not a specific formula which is to be said at the time of baptism. The Bible does not supply a formula. When one is baptized "...in the name of...", it means by the authority of. Baptism in the name of Jesus is the same as baptism in the name of the "Father..Son...Holy Spirit."

10. Not ok to curse people. The 1 Cor 16:22 passage does not mean that we are to curse people, but accursed is more like "doomed to hell."

11. Depends on why your dancing. If you're dancing in honor of idols, it's wrong.

12. Kinda complex. As God exists outside of time, he can see everything that happens before it happens. It's like we have free will to choose, but God already knows what we are going to choose.

http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/ata20040530.htm
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/q33.htm
http://beta.biblegateway.com/

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

TO> You had some really cool stats about the Earths population if the bible was true (if I remember correctly) If you know where they are please post! They were fun and relavent!

EG> Jesus was born on his birthday??? No REALLY????

Im not reading back very far, but has the argument of God killing come up yet?

OK now I have a question for you. Do you believe everythign the Bible says literally? Do you take it word for word and swallow it all, or do you make your own judgments?

This is a kind of circular argument. You are saying that the proof of the bible being true is that it says so in the bible.

Originally posted by Elastigirl
God is omnipotent you know.

Thats the point. If the definition of god is 'omnipitant' then it proves that he doesnt exist

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
EG> Jesus was born on his birthday??? No REALLY????

😎 Well, what am supposed to say? I don't know the exact date. I don't think it was Christmas Day though.

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
OK now I have a question for you. Do you believe everything the Bible says literally? Do you take it word for word and swallow it all, or do you make your own judgments?

I make my own judgements, even though the could be wrong. Do I take the Bible literally? Well, there's figurative stuff in there like the parables in the NT. And the account of when Nebuchadnezzar went mad may or may not be figurative, as I haven't studied it. I don't know much about Revelations either. I take the historical aspects, such as 7 day creation, Noah's Ark, Jesus's miracles, etc. literally, but I guess the parables at least are figurative.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
***

Originally posted by eleveninches
This is a kind of circular argument. You are saying that the proof of the bible being true is that it says so in the bible.

I didn't say that the proof the Bible is true is that it says so in the Bible. You are paraphrasing the words incorrectly. I can't prove that the Bible is true, just as you can't prove the Bible isn't true. You know that. I can prove that some historical facts are true, but neither of us can/cannot prove that there is a heaven/hell, that God exists, that there was a 7 day creation, etc.

Originally posted by eleveninches
Thats the point. If the definition of god is 'omnipitant' then it proves that he doesnt exist

And why does God being omnipotent prove that he doesn't exist?

***
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

not to get into this religious discussion here...........

just as you can't prove the Bible isn't true

you cannot prove a negative. Proof requires physical evidence......or data collected from physical matter. If something does not exist it cannot leave either.

- steps away slowly -

Originally posted by Elastigirl
Do I take the Bible literally? Well, there's figurative stuff in there like the parables in the NT. And the account of when Nebuchadnezzar went mad may or may not be figurative, as I haven't studied it. I don't know much about Revelations either. I take the historical aspects, such as 7 day creation, Noah's Ark, Jesus's miracles, etc. literally, but I guess the parables at least are figurative.

So the year Nebuchadnezzar battled the Judeans is figurative and the seven day creation is historical?

Originally posted by Elastigirl
I can't prove that the Bible is true, just as you can't prove the Bible isn't true. You know that. I can prove that some historical facts are true, but neither of us can/cannot prove that there is a heaven/hell, that God exists, that there was a 7 day creation, etc.

Facts can be proven. I thought "The Bible is 100% fact"?

Originally posted by Elastigirl
[BI make my own judgements [/B]

Then you don't believe in the bible.

God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son. Anyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life.
***

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
So the year Nebuchadnezzar battled the Judeans is figurative and the seven day creation is historical?

Facts can be proven. I thought "The Bible is 100% fact"?

1. I said I hadn't studied the Nebuchadnezzar thing very much, and I was talking about Daniel chapter 4.

2. No, you didn't think that "The Bible is 100% fact," -- that was me. 😊 I meant "The Bible is 100% fact," as in 100% factually correct. Even though it was my first post in this thread, I could have been more clear.

Originally posted by Captain_Fantastic
Then you don't believe in the bible.

And why do you say that?

You guys are pointing out errors in my statements, rather than errors in the content of the Bible.

Also, Adam & Capt, why are your avatars the same?

*****
In the beginning, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were made through him. Nothing that has been made was made without him. Life was in him, and that life was the light for all people. The light shines in the darkness. But the darkness has not understood it.

Originally posted by Elastigirl
The Bible is 100% fact...

Originally posted by Elastigirl
I can't prove that the Bible is true...

Originally posted by Elastigirl

And why do you say that?

You guys are pointing out errors in my statements, rather than errors in the content of the Bible.

Also, Adam & Capt, why are your avatars the same?

I say that because you can't pick and choose what you believe from the bible. It simply illustrates the true nature of religion as a man made concept. When my dad was a kid, being a catholic meant you couldn't eat red meat on friday. Men have changed the rules of religion so much, that it only points out that either: A) Men made up god and the religions around him or B) that god changed his mind. And if it's B then that would illustrate that god isn't all omnipotent.

Adam and I have the same avatar because he is my boyfriend. It's an illustration he had done for my birthday. It's a picture of Adam, Prince of Eternia(From Masters of the Universe...also as in Adam_PoE) and Anakin Skywalker. It's a gay thing...He's Adam and I'm Anakin. I'm a Star Wars nerd

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
OK now I have a question for you. Do you believe everythign the Bible says literally? Do you take it word for word and swallow it all, or do you make your own judgments?

Okay, Capt, Tptmanno1, what happens if I say...

1. "Yes, the Bible is completely literal." Somebody will almost certainly point out a part that could be/is considered figurative.

2. "I make my own judgements." And then somebody says what you said Capt.

It's lose - lose situation for me.

We are coming from completely different worldviews, and no matter what I'll say, somebody will end up twisting my meaning, and I'll still won't be able to convince you. Only God can convict your heart.

*****
In the beginning, the Word was already there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were made through him. Nothing that has been made was made without him. Life was in him, and that life was the light for all people. The light shines in the darkness. But the darkness has not understood it.
*****

Hey, at least you aren't telling me I'll burn in hell.

Elastigirl> Oh, please… Don’t start an answer by preaching. You have zero proof that your God exists or that Jesus ever lived, so…

Ok. We recall that you claim the Bible is 100 % fact.

1) Betlehem, sounds right.

2) You say Herod ruled. Well…
Luke 2:2 And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.
So who was it? Herod or Cyrenius?

3) Have you read LUKE lately? Try reading Luke Chapter 2 and tell me where it says Joseph, Mary and Jesus fled to Egypt.

4) On his birthday. And where in the Bible does it say when Jesus’ birthday is?

5) Well, Jn. 20:19-24 says ten. Mt 28:16 says eleven, 1 Cor. 15:5 says twelwe. Yes, yes, the Bible is 100 % fact. WHICH is it. 10, 11 or 12? Which of these numbers is INCORRECT, proving the Bible is not 100 % fact?

6) We’re now at the question of who tempted David to number Israel… God or Satan.
To which you answer ” God was angry at Israel, so He had David take a census. Satan provoked David into taking a census. God could have had Satan provoke David. God is omnipotent you know.”
You’re not answering my question. If God made David make a census, why did God need Satan to tempt David into doing the same thing? Wouldn’t God’s will have been enough?
If God can provoke Satan, are you telling me the evil Satan does is done through God’s commands?
If God is omnipotent why does he let kids have their limbs blown off by landmines?

7) Oh, dear. There are TWO Creation-accounts in Gensis. They are DIFFERENT. WHICH one is correct?

8) Well, WHO was Amasa’s father? Was it Ithra or Jether. Sorry, but those names are not the same.

9) Mt. 28:19 says baptism is to be performed in the name of God. But lo and behold… Acts 2:38, Acts 8:12, Acts 8:16, Acts 10:48 and Acts 19:5 says Jesus.
Which is it?

10) Yes, I am referring to 1 Cor 16:22 ”If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.” How do you know that it does not mean that we are to curse people? It doesn’t say that in 1 Cor anywhere.

11) Read Galatians 5:19-21 and tell me dancing is NOT a sin. Then read Exodus 15:20-21 and tell me that dancing IS a sin.
Which is it?

12) So do we have free will or not? If we have, how can we have it when God interferes?

TpT> Nope, wasn’t me. Try talkorigins.

Originally posted by Elastigirl
Okay, Capt, Tptmanno1, what happens if I say...

1. "Yes, the Bible is completely literal." Somebody will almost certainly point out a part that could be/is considered figurative.

2. "I make my own judgements." And then somebody says what you said Capt.

It's lose - lose situation for me.

We are coming from completely different worldviews, and no matter what I'll say, somebody will end up twisting my meaning, and I'll still won't be able to convince you. Only God can convict your heart.

The bible Cannot be true!

TO> Will do!
It was really cool so if I find it I'll re-post

sorry bout the double post but I found it!

Now that we have verified that making inferences as to intermediate population values is an activity engaged in by even those people who forward these arguments, we can proceed to showing what the population argument implies about the human population size at various points in history. The following follows from Williams set of population parameters: 5,177 years prior to 1925 for an initial population of 2, and a doubling time of 168.3 years.

World Population Date Event

17 2566 BC Construction of Great Pyramid
2,729 1332 BC Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten dies
5,000 1185 BC Trojan War
~1200 BC Hebrew exodus, # of males = 603,550 (excluding Levites)
32,971 776 BC First Olympic games
87,507 490 BC Greek wars with Persia
133,744 387 BC Brennus' Sack of Rome
586,678 28 BC Augustus' census of Rome (70 to 100 million counted)
655,683 1 AD Nice date

The whole link is here,
Quite interesting really....
http://www.rtis.com/nat/user/elsberry/evobio/evc/argresp/populate.html

Originally posted by finti
Nebuchadnezzar II King from605-662BC, accepted Jerusalem surrender the year 605 when he chased the fleeing Egyptian army, received news about his fathers death before he reached the border of Egypt same year, returned to secure the throne. Deported the jews from Jerusalem to Babylon in 586 BC

Something to go along with that.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=154&letter=N

Originally posted by Elastigirl
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I also understand that the love of JC for humanity was not just restricted to his followers, but also to all those that were willing to to love and care for each other.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Yeah I don't know... is that possible? From Adam and Eve to 6 billion people in a few thousand years?

well.... god DID tell them to go and populate the world, did he not? I mean, back then, people lived to be well over 200 years (we DO have actual records of people living for those periods of times, namely the greeks). So, if they started having kids at say, 14.... and Eve had between 1 and 6 kids every 9 months for the next 200 years.... and all of their daughters would have between 1 and 6 kids every 9 months after they reached 14.... those numbers REALLY start to add up.

PLUS, there's your genetic defects right their. Inbreeding shortens lifespans, and we already have substancial evidence that our lifespans have been shortened from those of a few thousand years ago (though now they are once again on the rise, but that is due to technology, NOT genetics).

Also, who's to say that way back then people weren't 300% more intelligent or something? So, there's a good sign of retardation mentally. Also, we know that people back then were much stronger naturally, so, once again, evidence we are "degressing". Those are some nice genetic defects that could be the result of mass-inbreeding...

EDIT: Something else just occured to me... you did say "in a few thousand years". Well... why are you limiting the time from adam and eve until now? How can you tell when humanity was initially created? (i'm asking christians the same question here as well). It could very well have been millions of years ago.

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
\
Thats the whole point!!
If One part of the bible is Figurative, how can you say that rest of it isn't? If you can say that you know, you say you are higher than God because you can tell what he was trying to say, when there is no way for you to know.
But if you take it literally, there are too many contradictions and figurative thingys for that to happen,

The bible Cannot be true!

TO> Will do!
It was really cool so if I find it I'll re-post

holy spirit dude.... bible says it will give you insight into the word of God (not a direct quote, but i dont keep up with scriptures, i just know what i read from the bible, not where i found it, lol). Holy spirit helps us interpret the Word of God.