The Official Symbiote Thread

I haven't read the whole arc in a long time, so forgive me on the details.
What I meant was that 'Bob' was 'good' in that he was a lesser of two evils. If his goal was to save the human race, sacrificing a few individuals and some remote regions might been acceptable as ends justifying the means. And as an AI, I doubt he has the capacity to consider (or conceive of) the morality of such a line of reasoning.

I agree that the symbiotes are parasitic in that a human host doesn't depend on them to live, but are "symbiotic" (for the lack of a better word) in that they give benefits to their hosts. That is apparent more in the older 80s&90s Venom appearances/story/arcs/whatever. But I suppose ultimately the individual symbiote is really what defines it. The Venom symbiote wants a shared relationship from its host, while the Carnage symbiote is exploited almost parasitically by Kassidy to keep him alive (as you said above) and create further mayhem in his killing sprees. The Venom clone seems to have an outright parasitic mind set in regards to it's host. This could be a result of it's youth, as it was created in a lab lacked any sort of 'social' interaction to teach it how to bond with a host, similar to the problems that Toxin and the life foundation symbiotes experienced controlling their immature symbiotes. Or maybe it was genetically altered or psychologically traumatized in the lab to increase it's aggressiveness.

But I would have loved to see the army of Venom clones. Would have been a great (re:better) way for the series to end.

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The only symbiotic currently relying on his symbiote for actual survival is Kasady, who is very ill.

But I would have loved to see the army of Venom clones. Would have been a great (re:better) way for the series to end.

Originally posted by Next Venom_girl
The Venom clone was featured in the 2003 Venom title. Cloned from a piece of Venom's tongue, the clone was running around in the arctic bonding with a mad scientist, a husky, half of Canada, Wolverine, and eventually Patricia Robertson who takes it to New York to duke it out with the original Venom. I don't think it has an official name. Unofficially, it's been referred to as the Venom clone, Wolvenom (when bonded with Logan), or Robertson-Venom / She-Venom II (when bonded with Patricia). (For a picture of the clone / She-Venom II, see current avi. 😛 )

Hey, n00bs:

Parasitism is a form of symbiosis.

Yes, parasitism is defined as a type of symbiosis. We were making distinctions (albeit fuzzy ones) between the TYPES OF symbiosis and the ways which "symbiosis" and related terms can be defined in relation to the alien symbiotes.

Besides, we're discussing comic books, places in which terms are never used in their exact dictionary definitions.

And we're not "noobs" either. Symbiotica's been here for a year, and I've been here a few months less.

Next time you post, would you please contribute something thoughtful to the discussion rather than a technical correction phrased rudely?

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Originally posted by FeceMan
Hey, n00bs:

Parasitism is a form of symbiosis.

'ey, n00b: Parasitism and symbiosis are definitely two separate concepts; viddy these definitions:

Parasitism: an association of two kinds of organisms in which the parasite is benefited AND THE HOST IS USUALLY HARMED.

Symbiosis: The intimate living-together of of two kinds of organisms, ESP. IF SUCH ASSOCIATION IS OF MUTUAL ADVANTAGE.

These are in no way truly interchangeable terms.

In other news, most people discount the cancer storyline seen in Spectacular as being.... not worth mentioning; therefore I never use it in my line of reasoning. Personally, I have little use for it - this is the arc that portrayed the symbiotes as peaceful grazing creatures, like a herd of buffalo. WTF?! Yeah, whatever. If others want to regard it as canon, be my guest.

I think I'll pass.

Personally, I have little use for it - this is the arc that portrayed the symbiotes as peaceful grazing creatures, like a herd of buffalo. WTF?!

Originally posted by Symbiotica
'ey, n00b: Parasitism and symbiosis are definitely two separate concepts; viddy these definitions:

Parasitism: an association of two kinds of organisms in which the parasite is benefited AND THE HOST IS USUALLY HARMED.

Symbiosis: The intimate living-together of of two kinds of organisms, ESP. IF SUCH ASSOCIATION IS OF MUTUAL ADVANTAGE.

These are in no way truly interchangeable terms.

In other news, most people discount the cancer storyline seen in Spectacular as being.... not worth mentioning; therefore I never use it in my line of reasoning. Personally, I have little use for it - this is the arc that portrayed the symbiotes as peaceful grazing creatures, like a herd of buffalo. WTF?! Yeah, whatever. If others want to regard it as canon, be my guest.

I think I'll pass.

Mutualism = form of symbiosis in which both organisms benefit from the relationship.

Commensalism = form of symbiosis in which one organism benefits and the other organism is neither helped nor harmed from the relationship.

Parasitism = form of symbiosis in which one organism benefits and the other organism is harmed from the relationship.

FeceMan knows his biology. Don't mess.

Feceman, we are not trying to insult your knowledge of biology. We're talking about how we view things. Chill out.

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Originally posted by FeceMan
Symbiosis = two organisms living together where one or both organisms benefits.

Mutualism = form of symbiosis in which both organisms benefit from the relationship.

Commensalism = form of symbiosis in which one organism benefits and the other organism is neither helped nor harmed from the relationship.

Parasitism = form of symbiosis in which one organism benefits and the other organism is harmed from the relationship.

FeceMan knows his biology. Don't mess.

Yeah, that's *great* but if you "know your biology," you also know that these are not interchangeable terms. If they were, one word would refer to all of them.

If you want to keep claiming they ARE, do so. I'll feel totally free to ignore you, because they're not and you ranting about how they are does not remove the other words from the dictionary.

I have been through college-level biology, let's stop with the territory-marking and continue with the discussion at hand. This solves nothing.

Originally posted by Symbiotica
Yeah, that's *great* but if you "know your biology," you also know that these are not interchangeable terms. If they were, one word would refer to all of them.

If you want to keep claiming they ARE, do so. I'll feel totally free to ignore you, because they're not and you ranting about how they are does not remove the other words from the dictionary.

I have been through college-level biology, let's stop with the territory-marking and continue with the discussion at hand. This solves nothing.

Parasitism is always symbiosis but symbiosis isn't always parasitism.

Scarlett, I frankly don't give a damn about meeting your grammatical expectations with my usage of the word "symbiosis." You don't like it, leave the thread.

Thanks for completely derailing the conversation with this useless crap. I always regarded you as one of the best people populating this site. Notice that sentiment is in the past tense. You wrecked the conversation. Happy now? I hope so.

What you just did is seriously uncool.

Originally posted by Symbiotica
Scarlett, I frankly don't give a damn about meeting your grammatical expectations with my usage of the word "symbiosis." You don't like it, leave the thread.

Thanks for completely derailing the conversation with this useless crap. I always regarded you as one of the best people populating this site. Notice that sentiment is in the past tense. You wrecked the conversation. Happy now? I hope so.

What you just did is seriously uncool.

And, frankly, I don't give a damn about wrecking this conversation. I corrected all of you and then you jumped on the OMG STFU bandwagon.

You could have ignored it. You could have said, "Oh, yeah, FeceMan, I know, but we use the term 'symbiotic' because it is closest to 'symbiote', which is how the suits are defined." You could have said, "Oops, I guess you're right. We'll need to clarify that in the future." Or perhaps, "Oops, I guess you're right. However, 'symbiotic' has become sort of a force of habit now, so we probably aren't going to change."

If you don't like me correcting your inaccurate use of the word 'symbiosis', YOU are free to leave the thread.

For a supposedly "intelligent" person FeceMan, you certainly didn't choose the best way to prove your point.

Actually, I've found that people that argue ridiculous points, (and this one ultimately is ridiculous to even be talking about still), often have some kind of "self doubt" behind it all... that they are out to PROVE, time and time again as it may be, they can stymy someone in some way.

Ahh well, hopefully this thread gets back on track before Paola comes and closes it, cuz that'd suck. 🙁

Let's move on from this non-issue, and if certain people don't like it let 'em rant to an empty theatre.

Originally posted by CK
I agree that the symbiotes are parasitic in that a human host doesn't depend on them to live, but are "symbiotic" (for the lack of a better word) in that they give benefits to their hosts. That is apparent more in the older 80s&90s Venom appearances/story/arcs/whatever. But I suppose ultimately the individual symbiote is really what defines it.

One could make a strong argument for either school of thought, really. Why would we even consider it to be a parasite? Because it's far from certain, at least to me, that these creatures do NOT have a detrimental effect on the cerebral function of the host. And then you have the issue of the longer the host wears the symbiote, the crazier they seem to get. They're not just unbalanced, they become progressively MORE unbalanced. Kasady's not any healthier these days.... and Brock thinks he can destroy the FF and Spidey and Nick Fury and SHIELD and who knows what-all with symbiote #1, from what we can see. How sane is that? Errr.... not

And Kasady is just totally consumed with delusions of every kind of grandeur. This is the guy who wants to put the blocks to both Venom and Spidey on home-plate at Yankee Stadium, or whatever. How sane is that? not

They do seem to have differing effects and functions re the host. Personally, I think it would be great to have Toxin start out being all civic-minded and all that, only to have the symbiote warp his every impulse and end up twisting his mind beyond all recognition. After all, his symbiote is the offspring of Kasady's, by far the most evil and virulent we've yet seen.

Yeah.... Toxin should be driven to acts of unspeakable depravity. 😈 Sounds like a plan. That's what makes these things so dangerous - you can never be quite sure what they'll do.

Enhanced strength and agility and the power to stave of death PLUS web-swinging, vs. mental unbalance - that's a potent cocktail. I still say this sounds more like symbiosis than parasitism. Those are not exactly negligible benefits listed there.

Originally posted by Symbiotica
They do seem to have differing effects and functions re the host. Personally, I think it would be great to have Toxin start out being all civic-minded and all that, only to have the symbiote warp his every impulse and end up twisting his mind beyond all recognition. After all, his symbiote is the offspring of Kasady's, by far the most evil and virulent we've yet seen.

Yeah.... Toxin should be driven to acts of unspeakable depravity. 😈 Sounds like a plan. That's what makes these things so dangerous - you can never be quite sure what they'll do.

Originally posted by orangepoindexte
For a supposedly "intelligent" person FeceMan, you certainly didn't choose the best way to prove your point.

Actually, I've found that people that argue ridiculous points, (and this one ultimately is ridiculous to even be talking about still), often have some kind of "self doubt" behind it all... that they are out to PROVE, time and time again as it may be, they can stymy someone in some way.

Ahh well, hopefully this thread gets back on track before Paola comes and closes it, cuz that'd suck. 🙁

Now you know why I was pissed. Sorry for derailing the thread.

Symbiotes are cool. I want one.

Originally posted by FeceMan
If you must know, I was extremely pissed because of the way an ultra-liberal newspaper on my campus portrayed Christians--the leftists that published the newspaper had the gall to slam Christians and call some of their beliefs 'stupid'. Now, if I were to do the same to them--as in, the homosexuals who wrote the paper, as Between the Lines is a "LGBT" publication--I would be denounced as a hater-mongerer, extremist, gay-basher, homophobe, and, undoubtedly, a redneck.

Now you know why I was pissed. Sorry for derailing the thread.

Symbiotes are cool. I want one.

Hehe I think we can all agree with teh last part of your statement. 😉

So I killed the thread?

Wtf.

Yeah, you pretty much killed it.

Anytime someone starts with the Religious Right crap, that pretty much ends the fun. You can keep that repressive, skirt-hems-past-your-knees, psalm-singin', chastity-belt-wearin', ban-all-birth-control crap right OVER THERE with you.

I've had more than my fill of that as a kid and I am not tolerating it now. It's unsymbiotic and yeah..... you killed the conversation deader than Jacob Marley, congrats and go re-read Revelations.

No... re-read *Proverbs*, because I know you're about to say a bunch of counterproductive things and you need a little wisdom right about now. Down With Extremism, whether it be Muslim, Christian, or any old kind at all. Don't bother flaming me because we're not going to argue about it. I have had enough of you religious maniacs.