Lawlz @ mental attack option.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankYeah, now that he's up against Superman, we should really stop doing that.
But seriously people - like you-know-who - really need to stop underselling GL blasts and constructs and lowballing the hell out of them.
We have enough time to do it in the Surfer/Thor/etc. threads.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Lawlz @ mental attack option.Yeah, now that he's up against Superman, we should really stop doing that.
We have enough time to do it in the Surfer/Thor/etc. threads.
It's pretty much any thread where Carv feels someone would beat someone else; he instantly lowballs the opposition for his own arguments. I don't have an issue with the idea of Superman beating a GL, even for a majority, but this rampant ignorance of what a Green Lantern can do and claiming they wouldn't give Clark a fight is ridiculous.
Yo.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't think that would be IC for Hal or really effective, tbh. It's an option, I guess, though.
Hal has done it to free Carol of SS's possession of her body, he did it to keep Black Hand from ever revealing his ID, and he told Tom wat he would do if he ever had to take down Supes...........which actually came to pass (and worked quite effectively) in _Legacy_.
while I'll agree it wouldnt be his "go to" move, its still a viable tactic........... barring *another* Geoffcon that is.
Tazer
Originally posted by Philosophía
That would be wrong, or partially at least. In terms of displayed power and capabilities Superman's upgrades have, without a doubt, stuck.
Some have, and some haven't. Looking at New Krypton, where it takes a Legion of Kryptonians and a bunch of Krypton technology to move a single planet, should demonstrate that well enough.
Just like any OTHER character, Superman's raw power level is almost wholly dependent on the writer writing him at the moment -- even after the Loeb training he was still, under some writers, reaching his max speed at mach 2 or having trouble with giant earth made robots.
The fact that the relative portrayals are still consistent is another matter entirely, and it's not strictly related to Superman or DC; but Superman of today is more powerful than he was a decade ago, when he was more powerful than he was two decades ago.
Even if you believe that with any consistency, you've conceded the only point germane to the discussion at hand; that his relative power levels have not increased.
If by "roughly" you mean "not anywhere close for it to actually matter when pertaining to Superman" then yes, I agree. Otherwise, 'roughly Superman level' is wishful thinking.
In terms of speed, no doubt, but Eddie Berganza made it clear that Superman was in fact WEAKER than Mongul Jr, and his battles with Mongul tend to emphasize his speed, manueverability and intellect over anything else.
Are you reffering to the part where Superman just plowed through, what was stated to be, bloodlust Hal going for the kill? Yeah, that does sound like a stalemate.
I'm referring to the part where he couldn't take Hal down, which is a stalemate, yup.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman did get steadily more powerful though. Robinson is more a blip than an actual depowerment, as his general consistency has actually been pretty high.
I don't think Johns portrays a more powerful Superman than, say, Jurgens did back in the day.
I just think Superman, like all of these characters, is mostly dependent on the writer.
He's got that Iron man thing going for him -- a new suit, he's more powerful than ever! Oh wait, he's exactly on the same level as before. 🙂
For these matchups, at least for me, the only thing that's REALLY important is relative power anyway, which we can all agree hasn't gone up considerably (at least consistently) over the years.
Originally posted by DesaadYou're looking at specific examples rather than looking at the whole picture. That's understandable since I doubt you've read his whole post-crisis history to get an accurate view on his progression, but you're still wrong. We can look at every one of his abilities and since the Byrne era he has recieved upgrades that have stuck, baring the odd exception.
Some have, and some haven't. Looking at New Krypton, where it takes a Legion of Kryptonians and a bunch of Krypton technology to move a single planet, should demonstrate that well enough.Just like any OTHER character, Superman's raw power level is almost wholly dependent on the writer writing him at the moment -- even after the Loeb training he was still, under some writers, reaching his max speed at mach 2 or having trouble with giant earth made robots.
In the Byrne era he couldn't breathe in space. He has progressivly since then, with each upgrade, gone from being able to travel large distances to inter-galaxy without any problems.
In the Byrne era high-level explosions knocked him out for extended period of times. Hyperspace would hurt him. He could barely withstand the surface of the sun. Afterwards, he has directly been shown to withstand blackholes, wormholes, the center of the sun and much more.
In the Byrne era his on-foot speed (see the Wally West race) was, while fast, limited to low-level mach speed. He has progressivly gotten faster, to the point that his race against Wally in Flash 209 portrays a whole new level of speed, was stated to be able to race photons to the target and much more.
etc.etc.
He is now faster (writers no longer shy from having him travel to other galaxies under his own speed, have him directly stated to be ftl on panel - eventough the opposite happened pre-Infinite Crisis on two ocassions I can point out off the top of my head), stronger (being stated to be able to shatter planets with his fists, on panels, by different authors and has what is a legit planet-moving feat+ in Justice League #29 - even with Hal helping him), more durable, has super-intelligence that has been played consistently and you'd have to be reaching rather hard to say upgrades haven't been shown. They have.
Originally posted by Desaad
Superman's upgrades have never stuck
haermm
Relative portrayals, like I've said, are still in effect. And that will never change. Captain Marvel will be shown to be around normal Superman. Wonder Woman will be shown to be just below him. Mongul will give him fights. It's company policy. And on this one, I agree with you. And if you'd have limited yourself to it, I'd have no problem.
But you're wrong, Superman's abilities have increased exponentially.
Originally posted by DesaadI hope you're not serious with this argument.
In terms of speed, no doubt, but Eddie Berganza made it clear that Superman was in fact WEAKER than Mongul Jr, and his battles with Mongul tend to emphasize his speed, manueverability and intellect over anything else.
I hope.
Originally posted by DesaadGreen Lanterns are getting enough disrespect as it is on the forum, but ok:
I'm referring to the part where he couldn't take Hal down, which is a stalemate, yup.
You're seriously trying to twist this into Hal's favor? Superman tanking, by Hal's own admission, everything he's got casually and going "you okay, bro?"? Couldn't take down Hal/stalemate?
haermm
Originally posted by Desaad
I don't think Johns portrays a more powerful Superman than, say, Jurgens did back in the day.I just think Superman, like all of these characters, is mostly dependent on the writer.
He's got that Iron man thing going for him -- a new suit, he's more powerful than ever! Oh wait, he's exactly on the same level as before. 🙂
For these matchups, at least for me, the only thing that's REALLY important is relative power anyway, which we can all agree hasn't gone up considerably (at least consistently) over the years.
I don't agree at all. If anything, Post IC Johns wrote a Superman that was more powerful than he's ever been post crisis. His feats support this.
Originally posted by Tazer
come on now, those were really just to be options, not THE move to be pulled out, since it would be far easier to simulate k-rock rads then go for a mental atk.
Originally posted by TazerBecause IIRC, Hal hasn't done it. And Pieface exploited Superman's indirect fear of kryptonite, not his direct vulnerabiliy to it.
and that would be based on................wat?
Yo.
which is a fine point, becuz it has been done.......only not by Hal (altho it was his Ring):
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/18504-2943-20700-1-dc-comics-presents_super.jpg
and for the record, the Rings are capable of creating red solar radiation too, since thats how Oblivion took down Supes in _Ring of Fire_.
Tazer
