why are you an atheist?

Originally posted by debbiejo
PHI proves that there must of been a designer. If you go all the way back to beginning to the first atom, or molecule. Who made that??

There had to be a designer, something can't come from nothing...

The first atom or molecule or any fundamental particle for that matter doesn't need to be made, it evolves via natural processes from a previous entity into its current form. Now you would probably ask where the first existent or entity came from. Well, it needn't come from anywhere and it surely did not come from nothing, it simply was always there. Existence as such is an eternity or infinity of existence - it never began anywhere - it simply always existed.

Your argument of the need for a designer in order to make something as it cannot come from nothing is a contradiction: if you postulate that a god created it, then you end up with the same problem - where did that god come from?; who made him? something(god/creator in this case) cannot come from nothing. Thus postulating a god as a creator doesn't solve the problem.

Now you would probably say that god was always there. But if god could have always been there then you logically must also allow the premise that existence (devoid of a god) could also merely always have been there. So, why superimpose a god/creator superfluously onto existence when it's unnecessary? If existence as such was always there and is eternal in itself then there's no necessity for a god/creator as existence did not need to be created. Why add a god into the equation when existence as such is sufficient in the capacity of an infinite and eternal container for all things?

What many people resort to in facing this conclusion is to call existence as such GOD. But calling existence God in this sense implicates that 'God' is no creator but merely existence proper.

I don't think you can put a designer/creator in a box like that. We are looking at things through our own perceptions, like TIME. If the creator is energy, He could of also created time as well. If that is the case, then it would be hard for us to fathom when the universe first started, or whether it was always there, or who created God, or did the first molecules come from somewhere. All our question are coming from our perspective of time. We are limited in that knowledge.

The universe did come from nothing though, nothing physical. The universe had a beginning, evidence tells us that. Something not coming from nothing is not contradicted by God's existence either. Something eternal does not come from anything. There is nothing eternal about the universe however. God being the creating force solves a lot of problems.

God being the creating force solves a lot of problems

Finti, how can you prove not.

Finti, how can you prove not

Originally posted by finti
dont have to, it aint those who doesnt believe/says there is none that has to prove stuff.

How old do you thing the earth is?? Just curious.

How old do you thing the earth is?? Just curious

Originally posted by finti
have no idea, geologist say they can measure the age on rocks and stuff . Astronomers say they can tell the age of galaxies and stars and such.
they make good arguments but if they are right I dont know. But that it is old , older than our comprehension of time is beyond any doubt

I just wondered if you thought it was million/billions of years old, or newer.

If it is millions/billions of years old, than I have a few questions.

1. Interplanetary dust over millions of years ...We should expect millions of tons of it to be washed into the sea over the last few billion years, but we don't find it. NASA experts were expecting a tremendous layer of dust on the moon due to its 4.5 to 5 billion year estimates. They were expecting 54 feet of dust on the moon. They didn't find that.

2. If man has been on Earth for a million years why is population explosion only recently becoming a problem? Families average 3.6 children with annual population grows 2%. If it increased only 1/2% per year for a millions years with 2.5 children per family it would result a population that would be represented by the number 10 with 2,100 zeros after it.

3. Dissolved minerals in the oceans over millions of years would create a density that would be unlivable to what we have now.

I have another question for you. Do you believe in bio-electric fields?

Just curious???
🙄 🙄 🙄

Also about the age of rocks. C-14 dating is not accurate.
Mollusks (living) test dated at 2,300 dead.
Mortar from an English castle less than 800 years old tested at 7,370 years old, and seal skins (fresh) dated at 1,300 years old. C-14 dates can't be trusted.

Anyway...bio-electric fields???

oh really, solve this problem then with god being the creative force, proof

Keep things in context, that was most certainly not what I was talking about. I was talking about creation and existence.

Interplanetary dust over millions of years ...We should expect millions of tons of it to be washed into the sea over the last few billion years, but we don't find it. NASA experts were expecting a tremendous layer of dust on the moon due to its 4.5 to 5 billion year estimates. They were expecting 54 feet of dust on the moon. They didn't find that

If man has been on Earth for a million years why is population explosion only recently becoming a problem?

Dissolved minerals in the oceans over millions of years would create a density that would be unlivable to what we have now.

Do you believe in bio-electric fields?

Well first you passed right over my previous questions or should I say comments like an old girlfriend, 🙂

In regards to bioelectric fields, I never believed in them. Thought they were new age or strange when people said they saw auras. I would even condemn them for such thinking.

But as I started to study it, I found that science has taken pictures of electric fields around people and all living things. They are now doing studies with it. So, now science has proved what everyone was calling strange or New Age. They are invisible to us or at least most of us. But they do exist. By the way I'm not New Age. I just like reading.

Could it even be possible that the designer/creator formed all things from it's energy to create matter or all living things, since all things are made up of energy that can be measured? Can you admit that it could be possible?? Yes/No

We can't see time, but we can see the effects of it.
We can't see gravity, but we see the effects of it.
We couldn't see virus's, bacteria, or fungi, until the 1930's when Royal Raymond Rife invented the microscope to see them.

We can't see all the microwave fields coming out from all our appliances that by the way do give many people with sensitivity some problems, like depression, and mood swings.etc....

Could it be possible for a designer to leave a finger print, so to say, in the Divine Number of PHI that is in all living things.

Every generation seems to think they k now all the answers until the next one comes along.
Now we know that the Black Plague wasn't caused by rats.

Could it even be possible that the designer/creator formed all things from it's energy to create matter or all living things, since all things are made up of energy that can be measured? Can you admit that it could be possible?? Yes/No

Could it be possible for a designer to leave a finger print, so to say, in the Divine Number of PHI that is in all living things

Now we know that the Black Plague wasn't caused by rats

clickclick: "The universe had a beginning, evidence tells us that."

Completely wrong - there is absolutely no evidence which proves a beginning of the universe - the Big Bang is merely a theory; Quantum says that it did not have a begining - it's infinite. Logically it must be infinite to avoid contradiction. Just go read up on relativity and Quantum theory - none of those two can proof that it did or didn't have a beginning - again you are making unsubstantiated assumptions which shows a complete lack of knowledge of the subject at hand.

Finti, You could not even admit the possibility?? Great thinkers always look at all the possibilities with an open mind ,other wise we wouldn't have all the sciences, art, music etc....we have today. They are people who could step out of the box and imagine all the possibilities.

You are in a box of your own making.

Finti, You could not even admit the possibility?? Great thinkers always look at all the possibilities with an open mind

Great thinkers always look at all the possibilities with an open mind ,other wise we wouldn't have all the sciences, art, music etc..

Originally posted by finti
dont believe in A designer creator so no!

no did they ever? Never thought the rats to be the reason they just was a part of how it was transmitted. They have knownfor a very long time that humans and rat was hosts to the fleas who caused the disease

At that time, they first thought the plague came from stray cats and dogs, so they rounded up ALL the cats and dogs and burned them. Later on, when the plague didn't leave, they thought it was the rats, not knowing it were the fleas on the rats that were carrying the disease.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Finti, You could not even admit the possibility?? Great thinkers always look at all the possibilities with an open mind ,other wise we wouldn't have all the sciences, art, music etc....we have today. They are people who could step out of the box and imagine all the possibilities.

You are in a box of your own making.

"In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms." - Stephen J. Gould